oogling young girls

[typingtoofast]

Myself and my partner have decided to give it another try. He is convinced im the woman for him and has apologised for his regular selfish episodes where I have to explain to him that his behaviour is not condusive to a healthy relationship. Ultimately he's selfish. But he has improved and I have seen a loving, attentive and kind man. I was beginning to think that this was a great new start for our relationship and was glad to give it another shot as had missed him when I decided to end it. The break gave me and him perspective and what was important to us both. All that aside.
We were out today in town and a group of young girls (16yr olds I'd say)were obviously heading off on a halloween party night. I had mentioned how inappropriate I thought the outfits were as they were extreamely revealing. You get the picture. In my mind I'm also thinking how they will catch their death of cold!
He views the girls and says they're out for a good night and laughs. He almost snapped his neck gawping. Now nobody could help it as the outfits as i said were ott. But then he replies they'll be teasing the boys later in the nightclub. I reply yes and that's just wrong.
I have in hay days worn revealing outfits and I replied that I wasn't necessarily looking for sex I was I suppose just rebelling and trying to be adult like.
He replied but kids these days are having sex younger, just look at them,look at the one in the tiny outfit. She'll be having sex tonight with the way she's carrying on.
I told him that's enough, that he looked like a sleezy man oogling.
He replied oh to be back that age again. I'd love to meet her out. Imagine the fun.
I was appalled by two things. One him visioning and two saying it in front of me.
Is this normal? I was disgusted and chose to say nothing for the rest of the evening. But then I think what if middle aged men say these things in their head. He's stupid/honest enough to say it out to me.
Now I'm thinking I am with a sleezy middle aged man and worries me that he would think like that.

Do stop whining OPoh, my comments about your posts were not insults but facts. Playing the victim on this particular thread is in bad taste.

You called me "thick and pig-shit ignorant". If you don't think that's an insult, then you're even more of a reality-denier than I thought.

(Reregistered cos my login mysteriously doesn't work now...)

Presumably you've been banned...

I have nothing further to say to you.

Presumably you've been banned...

Banned? For what?

I have nothing further to say to you.

No more insults? Ah, the relief!

"I'm sorry you are so scared of men but as with other bullies they probably aren't as terrifying as you might think which is why they do it when they don't think anyone will object."

Yep, posts like this are what I'm referring to - disbelieving, patronising, arrogant and entitled attitudes. They're not scary at all, these men, just punch them in the face like I would. What do you think they are going to do to you?

Thanks for that. Fuck off.

So please explain why it is such a common everyday occurrence if it is so > obviously wrong to everyone.

Well i can't. But i also cannot believe that my mum when she came home after a days work was probably groped or assaulted several times, that my wife - and every man's wife is groped and intimidated on a daily basis or would have been hundreds of times throughout their lives. If my wife came home and said "some guy grabbed my arse on the bus today and whispered in my ear he'd like to fuck me". I'd be mad, as would most people's partners/husbands. Your telling me this criminality goes on right under my nose and I never notice it because I'm conditioned not to?

At no point did I deny anyone;'s experience - what i'm wondering is whether it happen all the time to every woman - which appears to be what is being said.

Anyway, I'm stepping away now as this is upsetting me more than I need ATM.

Nice. It seems you have no problem telling men to fuck off in cyberspace. Even when they haven't been rude.

twindad76 women have been conditioned to accept it without complaint for years, that is why your mum or your wife don't mention or would only mention it if it was very extreme. Ok you'd be mad, what else would you do?

Let's just be clear here. If I were to ask my mum - mum have you been sexually assaulted many times throughout your life you know on a bus walking home etc. She would say oh yes son, happened every other day. Never told your dad tho. Bless hi m he wouldn't understand.

You do realise what this means right ? If it happens to every woman and its it not the same guy or a small number of them then in order to explain the frequency and prevelance of this and given there are roughly an equal number of men and women then practically every man has committed sexual assaults.

This might take us back a bit in the discussion... I'm a man and this thread has been very thought-provoking and made me think about things that I've never really considered before.

Can I ask a question to those who think that women need to take care what they wear to protect themselves or keep themselves out of harm's way?

Let's say that one day all women decided, en masse, that they would stop wearing clothes. Or, perhaps, that they would only wear underwear that was "sexy". Clearly a ridiculous scenario, but it's just as a thought experiment.

So, to those who think that it isn't unreasonable or victim-blaming to suggest that women need to take care in how they dress when, for example, on a night out: do you think the incidence of rape and sexual assault against women would increase if women walked about naked or only wearing sexy underwear?

Seems to me that you would have to say that it would. Otherwise you wouldn't feel it necessary for women to take care in how they dress in the first place.

If you are following me this far and think that the incidence of rape and sexual assault would increase, why do you think it would?

twindad when I learned to drive, I was constantly irritated by other people's idiocy on and around the roads and I used to go home and tell my husband about it; outraged and incredulous. As time went on, I just came to accept that other people are idiots on and around the roads and I just stopped talking about it.

It was a combination of no longer registering it in the same way; realising it was boring to talk about/listen to; and realising it didn't change anything.

When my then husband learnt to drive a few years later, the exact same thing happened to him.

It's not that it stopped happening or that it stopped annoying me or anything, just that it became part and parcel of driving.

It's a bit like that.

The more 'low level' stuff doesn't really register anymore, it's as much a part of every day as buying milk, eating lunch and going for a wee. Some of it would come under the heading of sexual harassment, some just plain old fashioned sexism. It's all part of the same thing though.

I'd imagine your wife just doesn't think it's worth mentioning, or hasn't registered it. And your mum will just have known (in those days) that it was accepted. The small stuff happens all the time.

My daughter was 9 when she encountered her first flasher. The first time that she was allowed to visit the swings with her friend 2 minutes away.

That's how it begins.

If my wife came home and said "some guy grabbed my arse on the bus today and whispered in my ear he'd like to fuck me". I'd be mad, as would most people's partners/husbands.

You'd get mad and blow it out of proportion, which partly why she doesn't tell you. And partly because it feels slightly shaming and you don't really want to talk about it. Stuff that's said to me - it doesn't occur to me to tell my husband unless it's unusual... I tell him the funny ones or the extreme ones...

I don't know about your mum, but if you asked your wife honestly to detail the sexual harassment she's experienced over her life I think you would be surprised...

I think it depends a lot on where you live, in London it's commonplace, but women from the countryside and small towns that I've spoken to generally report less hassle.

Fucken hell that video is terrible....

Twindad - I feel I ought to respond to your view that surely some women in your family would have told you if this was happening. I haven't mentioned my experiences of yesterday to anyone in RL. I have briefed people on the meeting outcomes, dictated the minutes, bitched about my train delay, told a funny story about a client's comment and recommended the biscuits at a particular client office but being groped and harassed on the tube hasn't come up in conversation. It just doesn't occur to me to tell them. I only posted about it on here as it seemed relevant to the discussion at hand.

Re your Mum, My granny used to tell me about working in the office at a factory and briefing all the young girls to never go to the stores on their own, always with another girl, so they wouldn't be cornered and groped. My Mum tells about always being told to file things in the bottom drawer by her boss so she had to bend over in front of him. Bums being slapped and the like were common place and not actually considered assault. Things are significantly improved as we are actually all talking about this stuff now and saying it is not OK. But please don't tell us that we can't possibly be experiencing stuff because no one in your immediate circle has either experienced it herself and /or reported to you.

I never said that it didn't happen Im dismayed that you are sexually assaulted and it doesn't occur to you as anything worth telling anyone about.

With regards to reporting it what do you think is worthy of reporting, a grope on a packed train when you can't even give a description of the person who did it? How about someone just saying something totally inappropriate? How embarrassed do you think say a 17 year old would be to have to repeat the words used to a police officer who is probably male as well. I suggested 17 year old because I'm discussing this thread with mine and yes she gets all the comments too.

twindad think about it - years and years of being dismissed as hysterical, hormonal, wrong time of the month, unable to take a joke, it's only banter, prudish (especially over calendars depicting half naked woman). Look at the comments made and the general thoughts when a woman has put her head above the parapet regarding sexual harassment, look at the dismissal of women who speak out as 'men hating feminist harpies'.

If nothing else look at the extreme reaction towards two women who campaigned to have a woman depicted on a bank note, then take a look at the people who were prosecuted for the more extreme postings, anything stand out about them?

And you wonder why women fail to report every single incident of sexual assault or harassment.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2220632-Aaargh-how-do-you-deal-with-random-men-making-patronising-flirtatious-comments-at-you-in-the-street

Suggest you take a moment to read this live thread........

When I joined this forum, it was to ask for advice about how to deal with a woman at work making inappropriate remarks /flirting with me.
Amongst other answers, I wasn't believed, was told it must be an ego boost for me /loving the attention and must have encouraged her /asked for it.
I don't know whether to view it now as irony or hypocrisy.

Hi MNers
I followed everybody's links and videos.
They are horrific. I didn't know it was like this!