oogling young girls

[typingtoofast]

Myself and my partner have decided to give it another try. He is convinced im the woman for him and has apologised for his regular selfish episodes where I have to explain to him that his behaviour is not condusive to a healthy relationship. Ultimately he's selfish. But he has improved and I have seen a loving, attentive and kind man. I was beginning to think that this was a great new start for our relationship and was glad to give it another shot as had missed him when I decided to end it. The break gave me and him perspective and what was important to us both. All that aside.
We were out today in town and a group of young girls (16yr olds I'd say)were obviously heading off on a halloween party night. I had mentioned how inappropriate I thought the outfits were as they were extreamely revealing. You get the picture. In my mind I'm also thinking how they will catch their death of cold!
He views the girls and says they're out for a good night and laughs. He almost snapped his neck gawping. Now nobody could help it as the outfits as i said were ott. But then he replies they'll be teasing the boys later in the nightclub. I reply yes and that's just wrong.
I have in hay days worn revealing outfits and I replied that I wasn't necessarily looking for sex I was I suppose just rebelling and trying to be adult like.
He replied but kids these days are having sex younger, just look at them,look at the one in the tiny outfit. She'll be having sex tonight with the way she's carrying on.
I told him that's enough, that he looked like a sleezy man oogling.
He replied oh to be back that age again. I'd love to meet her out. Imagine the fun.
I was appalled by two things. One him visioning and two saying it in front of me.
Is this normal? I was disgusted and chose to say nothing for the rest of the evening. But then I think what if middle aged men say these things in their head. He's stupid/honest enough to say it out to me.
Now I'm thinking I am with a sleezy middle aged man and worries me that he would think like that.

I wasn't insulting you OPoh simply calling a spade a spade. If you can't cope with that, then public discussions are not for you.

Thankfully I know nothing about you, all I have to go on are your words here, and they do not put you in a good light.

If you think it's 'depressing' that girls should be able to dress the way they like but can't, then you need to examine your own attitude that dressing sexily implies greater sexual availability. It's precisely men like you that are the problem here. That's not any 'mysterious dance of lust' as you call it, it's ignorance plain and simple.

Love that Zazzles.

To Twindads comments about what are women doing to change this. We're shouting back, we are supporting each other, we are talking about this and telling people it is happening, we are shouting that it is not OK in public forums, we are educating our daughters to see themselves as equal and valid members of society and we are educating our sons to be respectful and decent towards their fellow humans. We are quietly changing the world.

What we are not doing is escalating individual situations and putting ourselves at risk of increased physical harm in order to look like a good and virtuous victim who fought back instead of accepted the assault. That's a whole other debate about good rape vs bad rape there.

You will note that I haven't even bothered asking why this is our problem to resolve? Because we are the, y'know, victims here.

this turning the tables video is great

how men react to being inappropriately hassled by women. Most were confused because it never happens to them and they don't understand (hey, twindad, that's you that is), some treated her as if she was mentally ill

Interesting

There's a thread on the chat board regarding harrassment of women. Someone has posted a link to a video taken by a young woman walking the streets of New York with a hidden camera. Perhaps someone with much better tech skills than mine could copy a link to this thread? Could be very educational for some.

here it is DOT

Both the two videos just linked are on the Jezebel website.

This one will do:

Thank you, HHMF.

The young woman in the NY film - she is my daughter, your daughter, your sister, your niece, any one of the women who have posted on this thread of their experiences, and any one of the hundreds of thousands of women who get a taste of this every. single. day.

Leaving thread. All the best.

HappyHalloween I love the bit in that video where the workmen say very indignantly "you can't talk to us like that".

View it and weep OPohdear.

They're joking no?

The problem with that film is that a woman making comments simply cannot communicate the feeling of threat as when it comes from a guy...

I wasn't insulting you OPoh simply calling a spade a spade.

"And then some men like OPohdear are just thick and pig-shit ignorant..." is what you wrote a couple of hours ago. Then a bit later you wrote: "you don't really about the wellbeing of young girls you just want to flex some misogynist muscle." Those are insults, Twinkle.

If you can't cope with that, then public discussions are not for you.

I can cope with your insults (and the ones by others here) because when someone has to resort to insults and slurs, then they've clearly lost the argument.

Thankfully I know nothing about you, all I have to go on are your words here, and they do not put you in a good light.

Well, that's your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions, right?

If you think it's 'depressing' that girls should be able to dress the way they like but can't, then you need to examine your own attitude that dressing sexily implies greater sexual availability.

It's not just my attitude, it's pretty much been the social consensus since clothes were invented.

It's precisely men like you that are the problem here.

As I said before, don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message.

Poh - you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word objectify. It's not something someone can do to themselves.

I'm afraid it is, and plenty of women do it. But I agree that the pornification of our culture has massively contributed to that.

Because you see those women as objects, you are assuming that those women are aiming to be seen as objects.

Who said I see them as objects? Please don't strawman me...

Women wear skimpy clothes for a whole host of reasons (a big one is that they are taught that their value lies in sexual attractiveness, earning money is another reason in some cases etc..) but I can promise you that 'viewing themselves as an object with no other purpose than to fulfil men's sexual desires' is not one of them. That's just what the men see.

Again, I didn't say that at all. But I do agree that women "are taught that their value lies in sexual attractiveness" which is pretty depressing, but they should be taught to challenge this, not mindlessly go along with it. That's even more depressing.

Boys need to be educated, as a matter of urgency, as to their behaviour > with girls/women.

Assaulting someone or intimidating them is never acceptable behaviour, chasing and hassling 12 year olds as they walk home from school is a criminal act and and something that no sane person needs to be taught is wrong. Do you think someone following a kid home from school and making lewd comments is unaware his attentions are unwanted ? No one needs to be taught that it is not OK to stab someone for going into the rangers end dressed in a celtic strip either. I am not convinced as to why this anti social behaviour needs to be promoted to something else.

When I expresses anger and shock at being told that my daughters can expect countless incidences of sexual harassment and assault by grown men before they even leave school I'm basically told that I am stupid for suggesting otherwise and for suggesting they either challenge or report the behaviour.

I've always wondered how you expect to get people on side, especially the men who you need (since you are too scared - your words) to stand up to these bullies - when at the same time you latch on to any opportunity to put them down for not accepting as truth outrageous statements such as all men hate all women - you might not think it's true, but trust me I know you better than you know yourself 'cos i read it and i believe it, you'll realise this about yourself one day. !?

Boys need to be educated, as a matter of urgency, as to their behaviour > with girls/women.

Assaulting someone or intimidating them is never acceptable behaviour, chasing and hassling 12 year olds as they walk home from school is a criminal act and and something that no sane person needs to be taught is wrong. Do you think someone following a kid home from school and making lewd comments is unaware his attentions are unwanted ? No one needs to be taught that it is not OK to stab someone for going into the rangers end dressed in a celtic strip either. I am not convinced as to why this anti social behaviour needs to be promoted to something else.

When I expresses anger and shock at being told that my daughters can expect countless incidences of sexual harassment and assault by grown men before they even leave school I'm basically told that I am stupid for suggesting otherwise and for suggesting they either challenge or report the behaviour.

I've always wondered how you expect to get people on side, especially the men who you need (since you are too scared - your words) to stand up to these bullies - when at the same time you latch on to any opportunity to put them down for not accepting as truth outrageous statements such as all men hate all women - you might not think it's true, but trust me I know you better than you know yourself 'cos i read it and i believe it, you'll realise this about yourself one day. !?

What a horrific day Voodoo, sadly so typical. It doesn't matter what a woman or girl wears she will be subjected to abuse. We need to start challenging these attitudes and stop shifting blame onto women.

Twindad, may I respectfully suggest you check out the everyday sexism feed? It may open your eyes.

Assaulting someone or intimidating them is never acceptable behaviour, chasing and hassling 12 year olds as they walk home from school is a criminal act and and something that no sane person needs to be taught is wrong. Do you think someone following a kid home from school and making lewd comments is unaware his attentions are unwanted ? No one needs to be taught that it is not OK to stab someone for going into the rangers end dressed in a celtic strip either. I am not convinced as to why this anti social behaviour needs to be promoted to something else.

So please explain why it is such a common everyday occurrence if it is so obviously wrong to everyone.

Do stop whining OPoh, my comments about your posts were not insults but facts. Playing the victim on this particular thread is in bad taste.

Don't mistake bad attitude at the bottom of the barrel for 'social consensus', you are not representative of men.

When I expresses anger and shock at being told that my daughters can expect countless incidences of sexual harassment and assault by grown men before they even leave school I'm basically told that I am stupid for suggesting otherwise and for suggesting they either challenge or report the behaviour

You have to bear in mind that the shock and anger you feel now, we haven't felt since we were young teenagers when it was all new, so if we're blasé you have to forgive us.

Women stand up to bullies all the time: at home, at work, at play: we're simply saying that alone on a deserted street is not the wisest time for a confrontation.

More and more women are standing up against sexism and sex offences, stuff that 20 years ago was simply dismissed. We've seen a great sea change in the last few years with the Saville, Hall, Harris and Clifford cases, and the Rotherham and Oxford rings. The everydaysexismproject is doing great work. We can't expect to change the world overnight.

I wonder if the male posters on here with their disbelieving, patronising, arrogant and entitled attitudes, would deny and reject the reality of another persons experiences - if they weren't female. For example, if a group of black men were talking about racist experiences, would they wade in, as a white male, to tell them this doesn't happen, and if it does, they're handling it wrong? Wouldn't have thought so.

OPohdear, I'm not engaging with you as I honestly think you're just a goady fucker. Twindad76, you really need to educate yourself. My DH is probably around your age and a father, he GETS that women face everyday sexism from groping, to unequal pay, to assaults and rape. He knows that as a man, he cannot fully appreciate what it's like to experience this but accepts the reality of it and is a genuine feminist who challenges sexism and educates his DDs and DSs accordingly. I'm sure other posters will be much more articulate on this and I suggest you start listening and accepting rather than challenging.

entitled attitude !? wtf

I don't think 'entitled' refers to you twindad, but OPoh...