oogling young girls

[typingtoofast]

Myself and my partner have decided to give it another try. He is convinced im the woman for him and has apologised for his regular selfish episodes where I have to explain to him that his behaviour is not condusive to a healthy relationship. Ultimately he's selfish. But he has improved and I have seen a loving, attentive and kind man. I was beginning to think that this was a great new start for our relationship and was glad to give it another shot as had missed him when I decided to end it. The break gave me and him perspective and what was important to us both. All that aside.
We were out today in town and a group of young girls (16yr olds I'd say)were obviously heading off on a halloween party night. I had mentioned how inappropriate I thought the outfits were as they were extreamely revealing. You get the picture. In my mind I'm also thinking how they will catch their death of cold!
He views the girls and says they're out for a good night and laughs. He almost snapped his neck gawping. Now nobody could help it as the outfits as i said were ott. But then he replies they'll be teasing the boys later in the nightclub. I reply yes and that's just wrong.
I have in hay days worn revealing outfits and I replied that I wasn't necessarily looking for sex I was I suppose just rebelling and trying to be adult like.
He replied but kids these days are having sex younger, just look at them,look at the one in the tiny outfit. She'll be having sex tonight with the way she's carrying on.
I told him that's enough, that he looked like a sleezy man oogling.
He replied oh to be back that age again. I'd love to meet her out. Imagine the fun.
I was appalled by two things. One him visioning and two saying it in front of me.
Is this normal? I was disgusted and chose to say nothing for the rest of the evening. But then I think what if middle aged men say these things in their head. He's stupid/honest enough to say it out to me.
Now I'm thinking I am with a sleezy middle aged man and worries me that he would think like that.

So if you cannot challenge the situation you are relying on what to make it change ? Other men fixing it for you ? I still find it incredible that in 2014 You are telling me that sexual assault and initimidation is a daily occurence and that school girls can expect to be sexually harassed so frequently they'll lose count of the number of times it happens and that finally you should not challenge.or report the behaviour because there is no point ??? I feel like i've been in outer space for the last 40 years.

So why don't you have a problem with women and girls promoting the patriarchy by objectifying themselves?

I do. But, at such a young age as were originally discussed in the OP, they haven't yet begun to challenge power structures in society. They are just responding to them. I said as much upthread. I still don't think that gives the OP's husband the right to letch over them, though. They might not be old enough to know better, but he is.

I agree that they are only dressing in that manner because that's what they have learned about how women should be.

My objection is to the use of the word 'modestly' because that's a value judgement. The opposite, 'immodest' is a negative value judgement and we shouldn't be using value judgements to describe a woman's sexuality.

And, the bottom line is that women should be able to dress in any way they want to without attracting negative comments about their appearance or sexuality from men.

One of my friends goes out fully covered with only her eyes showing, and men still shout at her!

oh - and that as a man i cannot possibly understand this so I assume should not attempt in anyway to school my daughters about to handle themselves.

After reading your posts, I feel like you have been in outer space for 40 yrs too.

Yes, your posts show that you have zero understanding - by jove, he's got it!

No. You've just been a man who doesn't notice it.

We already had at least one woman come on here and say that it has never happened to her, so not just men apparently.

Twindad, you haven't done that light reading I gave you earlier...

You also do not understand any of what has been said on this thread. I don't blame you for that. Lots of men, and some women, simply can't (or won't) accept that every day men (as a class) show women (as a class) how much they hate them

That is a difficult and scary concept, and took me a long time to accept. When you do accept it though, lots of things fall into place (unfortunately)

twindad

Some things have changed a little bit. I think that, as women's awareness of it has changed and increased, we are also aware of where else it lies and just how pervasive it is.

All you have to do is what any American sitcom (e.g. How I Met Your Mother; The Big Bang Theory) or cartoon aimed at children (e.g. Scooby Doo) and you can see the prevailing attitudes being reinforced. These are programmes being watched by our children and teens.

We are not relying on men to solve it for us, but we need men to work alongside us because we can't do it on our own because it's a societal problem, and not a women's problem.

And to work alongside us because they genuinely believe it is wrong and not because they are just trying to appease the woman.

These things can and do change. It just takes time.

You've not been in outer space twindad you're just very naive about other men's sexual behaviour like a lot of men are. To be honest you sound like my dad.

Most girls have personal safety lectures at school. We had a year of self defence classes in the first year of senior school, and then twice yearly lectures thereafter.

Women support each other in real life and online, individually and in groups and charities such as the everydaysexismproject, eaves, rape crisis, women's aid etc.

Most girls have personal safety lectures at school. We had a year of self defence classes in the first year of senior school, and then twice yearly lectures thereafter.

Would be interested to know how much time the school devoted to educating boys against assaulting girls compared to educating girls as to how to protect themselves from boys...

As a woman I think that over time you build up the ability to recognise men who regard you as a person as opposed to an object.

If any of my female friends recommend a tradesman to each other, the most important consideration is not how proficient that person is, it's if you will feel comfortable alone in the house with them.

It's just another example of things that men don't notice.

Its not that you can't understand, its that you don't understand. A subtle but important difference. Its very clear from your posts that you don't understand, but that where you should be learning from women, if you can bring yourself to do that. Many men can't.

That's a really good point, WallBox.

Its very clear from your posts that you don't understand, but that where you should be learning from women, if you can bring yourself to do that. Many men can't.

Also a good point. Is anything that is being said here making any difference? Or do you think we're all wrong/making it up/hormonal...?

Is anything that is being said here making any difference?

There is plenty being said that is making a difference to me, so thank you.

A woman cannot 'objectify herself'

Really? So it's impossible for a woman to dress or act in a way that portrays her as a sex object, or encourages other people to see her like that? Open your eyes, open a newspaper - read the OP! You're living in denial, I'm afraid. Everyone should take responsibility for the foreseeable consequences of their own actions, which means that if you dress like a Roman slave girl then you are inviting the male gaze (but not, of course, inviting sexual assault). Sorry if you find reality uncomfortable.

Report away OPoh...

Nah, I like letting gratuitous insults stand so people can see a poster's true character.

I have a teenage dd. I don't teach her to take these men on. I teach her to get away to a safe space as soon as possible, even it offends someone genuine.

Yet above, you wrote that "the key is to change the behaviour of the men, not the behaviour of the girls (by changing society so that these men are shamed not celebrated). There are the roots of radical feminism." So, as long as it’s someone else doing the shaming, right?

If you don't like seeing young girls dressed up as hookers then never whack off to porn again... Obviously that's not going to happen, you don't really about the wellbeing of young girls you just want to flex some misogynist muscle by holding them responsible for male' sexual misbehaviour.

You know nothing about me, and instead of challenging what I actually wrote you ignore it, make incorrect assumptions and then insult me (again). Very poor show...

And, the bottom line is that women should be able to dress in any way they want to without attracting negative comments about their appearance or sexuality from men.

Yes they should, but depressingly they're not. To pretend (or teach our children) otherwise is just bonkers - and irresponsible.

Good for you LuisCarol. The threads here often enlighten many people, just not perhaps some of the participants .

Would be interested to know how much time the school devoted to educating boys against assaulting girls compared to educating girls as to how to protect themselves from boys...

It was a girls' school but I entirely agree with your point. I strongly believe that sex education at school should also include relationships and sexual behaviour.

Boys need to be educated, as a matter of urgency, as to their behaviour with girls/women.

To end harassment of women, society needs to focus on the harassers... No amount of modest clothing, defence strategies and rape alarms is going to achieve this.

Oh good god...

I think this is appropriate.