oogling young girls

[typingtoofast]

Myself and my partner have decided to give it another try. He is convinced im the woman for him and has apologised for his regular selfish episodes where I have to explain to him that his behaviour is not condusive to a healthy relationship. Ultimately he's selfish. But he has improved and I have seen a loving, attentive and kind man. I was beginning to think that this was a great new start for our relationship and was glad to give it another shot as had missed him when I decided to end it. The break gave me and him perspective and what was important to us both. All that aside.
We were out today in town and a group of young girls (16yr olds I'd say)were obviously heading off on a halloween party night. I had mentioned how inappropriate I thought the outfits were as they were extreamely revealing. You get the picture. In my mind I'm also thinking how they will catch their death of cold!
He views the girls and says they're out for a good night and laughs. He almost snapped his neck gawping. Now nobody could help it as the outfits as i said were ott. But then he replies they'll be teasing the boys later in the nightclub. I reply yes and that's just wrong.
I have in hay days worn revealing outfits and I replied that I wasn't necessarily looking for sex I was I suppose just rebelling and trying to be adult like.
He replied but kids these days are having sex younger, just look at them,look at the one in the tiny outfit. She'll be having sex tonight with the way she's carrying on.
I told him that's enough, that he looked like a sleezy man oogling.
He replied oh to be back that age again. I'd love to meet her out. Imagine the fun.
I was appalled by two things. One him visioning and two saying it in front of me.
Is this normal? I was disgusted and chose to say nothing for the rest of the evening. But then I think what if middle aged men say these things in their head. He's stupid/honest enough to say it out to me.
Now I'm thinking I am with a sleezy middle aged man and worries me that he would think like that.

Cant bebothered - it is not pointless if I groped a woman in my work place I would probably be sacked, most companies have policies for these sorts of things and itsntaken very seriously. This is 2014.

I don't know what to say to a person who asks me "what did he think he was going to do?" when I give a RL example of a 16yo being kerbcrawled.

what did you think he was going to do ?

twindad You are spectacularly missing the power play at work here.

I have no idea how old HappyHalloween is but I doubt that reporting it would have made any difference. And her behaviour/'role' in it may have been questioned.

I was sexually assaulted (not seriously, but it involved very inappropriate comments, slapping/pinching my bottom when I was unable to move to prevent it and kissing when also unable to move away or prevent it) several times by a sports coach I had from the ages of 9-11.

I did tell my mother. She told me not be ridiculous and that he "wouldn't do that sort of thing" Based on what? Based on the fact that in the 80s children weren't believed; there was a stigma attached to it; it would have brought shame on us (rather than him). More than that, I continued to go to the club for a long time after I told her (it was happening all the time) and I was only withdrawn when the mother of another child there rang her up and asked if I'd ever said anything to her about the man who ran it... Our mothers withdrew us but didn't tell anyone. So I learned that it's just the order of things and something I had to tolerate.

Because last year, I was verbally sexually harrassed by someone on a train. I was reading and he was trying to get my attention initially, loudly, from a few seats away in a "hey, beautiful...", "Baby, I'm talking to you..." way. I just ignored him. It got worse and his comments got a lot more, well, 'rapey'. "Fucking bitches who think they can fucking ignore me...", "slags thinking they're better than me because they're reading a fucking book..."; "think they can ignore me and I won't do anything about it..."; "she doesn't think there's anything I can do about her ignoring me..."; "better be watching your fucking back, bitch"; "no bitch is going to ignore me"; "I fucking show bitches like that" Anyway, you get the picture.

What should I have done? It wasn't an empty carriage. There were other people around. Other men around. A few of them made eye contact with me. One of them half smiled at me in a "Don't worry, I've got your back" kind of way. His stop was the one before mine and he looked at me as he got up, I left the train with him and he stood behind me whilst I got off the train, and waited to be sure this other man hasn't also got off. And then he went. Not a word was uttered between us.

No one on the train challenged him. I was shaking when I got off. Not one person told him to back off. Not one. I reported it to the men in the ticket office, they made a half hearted reassurance and I just left it. What was the point?

That is why it's being 'hard of thinking' to think we should defend ourselves and do something about it. Because feel scared and vulnerable and just want it to stop and we think the best way of bringing it to a quick conclusion is to pretend we haven't noticed, to ignore it.

And no, I didn't report the kerbcrawling incident to a grown up. I would have been blamed for being out on my own at night. What did you expect, etc

Twindad you learn very quickly when you're very young that winding up a random male stranger/s is dangerous.

As a schoolgirl, you're hassled so much if you can't possibly report it all. You learn to live with it, you learn not to escalate the situation, and to report only the most serious examples.

Of course he's not going to respond positively but who gives a fuck

Because sexual assaults (inc rape) against women (and men) are about power. We've already established that.

Imagine a man has been sexually harassing a woman in public and she stands up to him. Now imagine that man's mates all start laughing at him. Imagine he feels humiliated. Imagine his anger growing as he looks at the woman who thinks she's put him in his place. Imagine his indignation that his mates are laughing at him and his fear that other people might think he is a dick.

What right has that woman got to make him feel like that? What right? She needs teaching a fucking lesson. That's what she needs...

Imagine all these thoughts going through the minds of a man who is much bigger and stronger than the woman who humiliated him.

Now imagine just how he might choose to teach her a lesson...

So given the risks, I give a fuck that he's not going to respond positively.

I would also add that I have stuff to do. I do not have hours free to sit in a police station making a complaint about an unknown person committing an unwitnessed offence in a public place. Waste of my and police time.

As for upping the ante and responding with physical violence or verbal abuse (twindad's suggested response). I quite like the current arrangement of my face and would prefer to keep it in its current form. A hand on my arse is deeply unpleasant, a fist in my face would be significantly worse.

Suckitup is correct that this was an above average day, which was why I felt the need to post. But I would say she is very lucky to have never experienced anything on the tube. This was a particularly bad day but not an uncommon experience at all.

And finally, to the question of why women don't challenge. I suggest you google Schrodingers Rapist. What the perpetrator means and how far he would go and what the victim sees and fears are very very different things.

And no, I didn't report the kerbcrawling incident to a grown up. I would have been blamed for being out on my own at night. What did you expect, etc

This.

You learn very quickly when you're very young that winding up a random male stranger/s is dangerous.

This.

As a schoolgirl, you're hassled so much if you can't possibly report it all. You learn to live with it, you learn not to escalate the situation, and to report only the most serious examples

This.

And then some men like OPohdear are just thick and pig-shit ignorant...

And I'm the goady one? Yeah right! Don't worry Twinkle, I won't report.

FolkGirl, yes it's about exercising power against women and girls, which the patriarchy promotes. So why don't you have a problem with women and girls promoting the patriarchy by objectifying themselves? And telling the OP she's wrong for wanting her daughters to dress a bit modestly - really?

I'm in the house this morning watching kids tv with my daughter whilst we 'make stuff'.

I've just heard a woman on the Sarah Jane Adventures refer to a woman who was interested in her husband as "a bunny boiler".

I saw and heard too many incidents to recount of sexism on Scooby Doo earlier, which positioned the woman as submissive to the man.

It's everywhere, twindad and that is much of the reason why you can't see it... It's hiding in plain sight.

shrodinger's rapist Kate Harding says it very eloquently. Not included are the men we know and should be able to trust who harm women and girls of course.

Report away OPoh...

I have a teenage dd. I don't teach her to take these men on. I teach her to get away to a safe space as soon as possible, even it offends someone genuine.

twindad76 Did you miss the part where I stated I did make a complaint and just got brushed aside. I quit my job over it. Yes there is more protection in law these days but it frequently boils down to your word against theirs and there are still plenty of people around who grew up with these attitudes and it will take a long time for it to completely get eradicated. People refusing to believe other peoples experiences makes it so much harder to deal with it.

As a teenager working in London I was assaulted on the underground regularly.

I was assaulted by my boss at the Christmas party.

I was assaulted by my boyfriend's uncle.

This was many years ago and I was a very shy modest girl. I think looking back that this made me more of a target.

I have a teenage dd. I don't teach her to take these men on. I teach her to get away to a safe space as soon as possible, even it offends someone genuine
for once, I am in total agreement with you.

I think this pic is appropriate at this juncture. It doesn't say 'men' I'm afraid, so I fully expect to be told how I am 'wrong'.

"for once" PB ? Err, ok then. That's good to know.

No-one is saying dressing modestly is wrong, simply that the reasoning behind it is flawed. It's a complete fallacy that you can protect yourself by the way you dress. And the belief that you can leads to the misconception that if you're wearing, for example, a short skirt, then you have invited hassle and it's partially your responsibility. Women are harassed whatever they're wearing.

The reason young girls wear such overtly sexy clothing is because they have the most mahoosive amount of pressure from the media which tells them that a woman's value lies primarily in her sexual attractiveness, that if you don't look sexy you have failed. Women are now presented as hypersexualised in films, ads, lads' mags, music videos, and most particularly porn. It's the pornfication of the mainstream that puts the most pressure on women to present themselves always as porn sexy, and sexually available. It's very, very damaging to young women.

If you don't like seeing young girls dressed up as hookers then never whack off to porn again... Obviously that's not going to happen, you don't really about the wellbeing of young girls you just want to flex some misogynist muscle by holding them responsible for male' sexual misbehaviour.

That was to OPoh ^^