oogling young girls

[typingtoofast]

Myself and my partner have decided to give it another try. He is convinced im the woman for him and has apologised for his regular selfish episodes where I have to explain to him that his behaviour is not condusive to a healthy relationship. Ultimately he's selfish. But he has improved and I have seen a loving, attentive and kind man. I was beginning to think that this was a great new start for our relationship and was glad to give it another shot as had missed him when I decided to end it. The break gave me and him perspective and what was important to us both. All that aside.
We were out today in town and a group of young girls (16yr olds I'd say)were obviously heading off on a halloween party night. I had mentioned how inappropriate I thought the outfits were as they were extreamely revealing. You get the picture. In my mind I'm also thinking how they will catch their death of cold!
He views the girls and says they're out for a good night and laughs. He almost snapped his neck gawping. Now nobody could help it as the outfits as i said were ott. But then he replies they'll be teasing the boys later in the nightclub. I reply yes and that's just wrong.
I have in hay days worn revealing outfits and I replied that I wasn't necessarily looking for sex I was I suppose just rebelling and trying to be adult like.
He replied but kids these days are having sex younger, just look at them,look at the one in the tiny outfit. She'll be having sex tonight with the way she's carrying on.
I told him that's enough, that he looked like a sleezy man oogling.
He replied oh to be back that age again. I'd love to meet her out. Imagine the fun.
I was appalled by two things. One him visioning and two saying it in front of me.
Is this normal? I was disgusted and chose to say nothing for the rest of the evening. But then I think what if middle aged men say these things in their head. He's stupid/honest enough to say it out to me.
Now I'm thinking I am with a sleezy middle aged man and worries me that he would think like that.

How many times do you have to be told men make comments regardless of what women wear?

The implication behind the 'leaving valuables on display' metaphor is that women could do something to hide the fact they're female, which they can't, and it inexorably leads to the idea that a victim is partially responible for being attacked: they weren't careful enough, they didn't take enough precautions to hide their valuables.

What constitutes display of valuables for a woman? I'm 30E breasts, it's very difficult to hide this fact, even in baggy jumpers you can see I've got big knockers. Even when I've been out in a coat I've had comments such as 'blow job mouth' and 'come to bed eyes', 'sexy', every woman will tell you the same.

Women can't hide their faces, their bodies, it's not possible to lock away the natural femaleness that draws men's attention. It's men's reactions that are the problem not women's attributes.

That was to Neil^^

This is about victim blaming.

neil, this is a waste of time for you if you simply refuse to listen to the people who live this every day, for decades

women

neil please answer me, would you be friends with those same mates if the made racist or anti gay comments?

if neil hasn't seen it, it hasn't happened, right ?

But you are apologising for and minimising your friends behaviour towards women neil, if you want to keep your children safe challenging these attitudes would be far more effective.

I was groped in my convent school uniform on a bus. Skirt down to my shins and a coat on. I was groped in a work uniform. I had a guy press his crotch against me whilst in the supermarket wearing a maternity dress. I was groped in nightclubs.

Yes, but can't you see it's easier and pleasanter to go out and have the manly craic with your mates and lock your daughters up so that other men aren't having the fun with your daughter that you have at the expense of women you don't know? Surely it's obvious that that's a better scenario for your fun loving patriarchal victim blamer average joe?

@YesIDidMeanToBeSoWoooooooode

I still can't believe people are STILL coming out with this shit, telling women what to wear so as to avoid sexual assaults etc.

I really think there's room for a campaign where survivors/victims say what they were wearing at the time they were assaulted/raped/abused/groped/verbally abused.

it's FUCK ALL to do with what they are wearing.

I'll start. I was raped and I was wearing a red skirt and white jumper. But no bra. Oh dear. My bad!

I'll make sure I cover up in future.

YesIDidMeanToBeSoWoooooooode for sharing.

Just wanted to post a link to our Rape Myths page.

If one person reads this thread and/or that page, and realises they weren't to blame for being raped or assaulted, then no one posting here has wasted their time.

Thank you EllenMN.

Neiljames77, do you think you could acknowledge the fact that sexual abuse of women is not caused by what women wear, it's caused by men abusing them?

As a father of daughters, it's really important for you to GET this.

Thanks Ellen. Maybe mn could start something around not victim blaming ...along the lines of we believe you....#iwaswearing or similar?

You are so determinedly numb in the skull, ladies. You think you're feminists. You ignore the animal nature that we all have, male and female. No amount of squealing 'I can wear what I like!' will change that.

Protecting yourself/your daughters, as far as you can, isn't wrong. Dressing appropriately is part of that. Do football fans go into another teams territory wearing their own team's regalia? Or do they take simple steps to protect themselves from harm? Dress appropriately. Its not 'victim blaming', its common sense.

How sick is this world? Very. Dd's sixth form Speech Night - parents behind me, three daddies sitting together, discussing how sexy their daughters' classmates looked, what 'big knockers' they had, how revealing their clothes were, what they'd be up for later that evening etc etc. Dads. At a school presentation evening. Men, together. Like on a night out but more restrained because they were in a well-lit civic hall and their wives were a few seats away along the row. These people aren't going to be taken out of the world because you think you have a right to strip off and go for a night out, drunken, loud-mouthed, vomiting in the street, collapsing senseless, as base as you can be.

Yes, you are right, everyone should show absolute respect for their fellow human beings and for themselves. Men shouldn't assume that girls who have dressed to look ready for sex actually mean what their clothes (and sometimes their actions) say. Women should not offend me by demanding the right to behave disgracefully yet be fully protected from the consequences of their behaviour.

Lets have a society where everyone behaves discreetly and respectfully, and no-one comes to harm. When we've got that, we'll be free to push the boundaries with our clothing.

Myempireofdirt, thanks so much for that, I'm not on twitter so hadn't seen it.

That's the sort of thing I was thinking of. Neil and cog, and everyone else who thinks clothing is a factor in assault, you should read that link.

You think you're feminists.

No, I know I am a feminist. But thanks for your concern.

We are wearing appropriate clothing - appropriate clothing for a nightclub, appropriate clothing for work, appropriate clothing for running, appropriate clothing for gardening, appropriate clothing for tea with granny, appropriate clothing for the Opera, etc., etc. The problem is not what we are wearing.

I know I feminist. But this is nothing to do with feminism. This is to do with having the basic human right to go about your daily business without being harassed or sexually assualted.

Everyone seems to have gone way off point. What started as a thread about oggling girls has turned into a bun fight about rape and victim blaming.

I for one will be teaching my girls that it's common sense to be cautious and practice a little damage limitation. Of course in a perfect world they should be able to go anywhere/wear anything and remain safe. We don't live in a perfect world.

Curt,
What you are teaching your girls is that rape is avoidable by them modifying their behaviour/dress. Therefore, if they get raped you are implying that, if it is avoidable, it's their fault/partially their fault.

Can you see how damaging this attitude is?