I think I've made a massive mistake

[PeterManion]

I have been with DH for seven years, married for one. The whole Ched Evans thing in the press brought a previous experience of mine to the surface and after a long conversation about sexual assault with DH, I confessed that I had experienced something I felt was an assault.

Before meeting DH, I had been in a long term relationship and I had lost my partner to cancer. After he died, I went off the rails somewhat. I was bereaved, hurting and lonely. I did some things which I am not proud of. One of these was having a one night stand. I had had too much to drink and was not at all in control. I went out for some drinks with some work colleagues, but felt reasonably safe. However, I awoke the next morning in my flat to find a guy from work in my bed with me. I was unclothed and extensively cut and bruised ( I still have scars). I got him out of my flat as quickly as possible and drew a line under it. I have never asked him about what happened. I have never talked to anyone about it.

To this day, I am still not certain what occurred, but have felt somewhat taken advantage of in my vulnerable state. I could not say that I was raped, but feel that this person took advantage of me. I have to see him very day at work. He makes me feel like an absolute stain.

I have always felt confused about this experience and am incredibly uncomfortable around this man. My overwhelming feeling is that my boundaries were breached. That I was in no state to consent to anything and he used this to his advantage.

Anyway, after discussing the Ched Evans case with DH, this all came out. And I was utterly shocked at his response. I fully expected him to empathise. He did not. He got really angry. He hit me with a barrage of questions and because my experience was about how I FELT about the ONS, because I had nothing I felt I could take to the police, he questioned me quite aggressively. I was left feeling that I had to justify my actions to him. Basically, if I was not certain I was raped, then I shouldn't be complaining.

I feel crushed that the person I should be able to trust most of all turned away from me when I confessed something difficult and private. I have never told anyone else about this before. I was so unspeakably hurt by his response. It has impacted on how I interact with him. I cannot continue as normal and be loving and affectionate. I am so, so hurt. He is not the man I thought he was. I am questioning the future of my marriage.

He can barely look at me now. He seems to be on the verge of ending the relationship because he thinks I have no reason to be hurt. But did I really "ask for it"?

I am so overwhelmed and confused.

OP - emotional support in a relationship is paramount.
I think your husband's total lack of support and empathy is disgusting and shallow.

I wonder if it would help to have a follow on conversation with your DH and give him the context of how you were in emotional meltdown after losing your DP to cancer, and behaved out of character. Surely he can't be so hard hearted that he wouldn't at least try to imagine how it all happened.

You mentioned you still have the physical scars from what happened. Did your DH ever ask you how you got them?

blanketyblank100. Thank you - your words are kind and sensitive. You're right - I don't really know he origin of his reaction. Also, I'm not saying I was raped - jut that I was not really in a state to consent and that I feel I was taken advantage of. I don't really know of that makes sense to anyone other than me. I shall give him (DH) the benefit of the doubt, because I'm not sure we have anywhere to go if I don't. However, I think there will always be a small part of me always wondering why he doesn't understand why I'm hurt by his behaviour.

I'm about to over share. When I told my dh that I'd been raped 20 years ago he was v understanding. However, when I told him the details months later he said 'oh I thought you meant you'd been raped raped.

Basically he said he'd thought - knife, man in bushes wearing mask whereas I had told him what actually happened - a man I knew on a date. I was gutted at his reaction. However, after much talking about it and him educating himself a lot he's now not a twat. His background was incredibly chauvinistic though so he had an excuse, and then put it right by learning. However, you say your dh is educated?

Reminds me of the Yorkshire ripper murders, when he was 'just' killing prostitues no one seemed to care then he moved on to 'good, decent' women and the media finally started demanding something be done.

I'm waffling but really wanted yo say sorry off your experience and doubly sorry that your husband has reacted this way

His reaction was out of order, no matter what the reason was. His job was to listen and support, not judge and criticize. If what OP told him caused him to have 'issues' he should have raised them in a calm way or kept them to himself until he could.

Could this be a 'moral' issue with him as far as him thinking you had a ONS? Pretty archaic in this day and age, but that old double standard still exists for many men.

Has he or someone he knows been accused of date-rape or even 'coercion' (which is still date rape), especially after a ONS?

Could he be upset because you still work with this man? Many men see things in black and white and he may wonder 'If it was rape, how can she still work with this man? Therefore it wasn't rape'.

Frankly, if it was my DH, that reaction and further behaviour would almost surely cause something in me to 'break' as far as our relationship went. Call it trust or feeling emotionally safe, I don't know. I think I'd forever second guess what I could and couldn't tell him I DO know that I'd never feel the same about him again.

NanFucker - thank you for sharing. I think you illustrate the difference that DH is not seeing. I don't think men live with the daily experience of being treated like pieces of meat and therefore cannot process this idea. It' so black and white to him, so simple.

Peter . I'm so sorry. it must feel like you've been betrayed and abused twice, both times when you were at your most vulnerable and should have been protected.

Would your dh realise how much he has fucked up and let you down if you show him this thread?

AcrossthePond55 I don't think it's a moral reaction. Though, to be honest, I have absolutely no idea what kind of reaction it actually is. I want my best friend back, I want to forget about this no-count at work (and believe me, I've been doing pretty well at this) and I want to feel like DH has my best interests at heart. This seed of doubt is there now and I am struggling with the notion that we are not wholly there for one another.

Fifi669, the event certainly did happen. What the OP is unsure about is whether she can call it rape. What she can call it is a sexual encounter which happened when she was vulnerable, drunk and did not give explicit consent. She has told her DH and his reaction has been less than sympathetic, angry even and that anger aimed at her.

I had a similar situation in my life, OP. Whilst back-packing in the US I broke my self imposed safety rules and popped into a bar in San Francisco for a pint. Got chatting to the barman (explaining the rules of cricket!) and carried away by the apparently Cheers-like ambiance, drank more than I should and got v drunk v quickly (suspect something may have been added to the booze to aid the process). Have a dim recollection of chatting to a couple of blokes who worked in the bar. Woke up in the Youth Hostel the following day v hungover and v v sore. Knew thee had been a sexual encounter of some sort (not sexually active at the time, v sore and virginal bleeding). Felt guilty and ashamed, pretended nothing had happened, carried on as normal, felt violated.

Had a bit of a breakdown a few years later (many life events contributed, this was one) and I had counselling. Moving on a few years, met DH. Before beginning a sexual relationship I told him. He hugged me. We didn't talk much first time, revisited the subject a couple of times and I asked him if he blamed me. He didn't. Whether it was called rape or not was not an issue (I still don't call it rape, I refer to it as a non-consenting sexual encounter, I find the semantic prevarication helpful), DH takes the view that a bloke took advantage of me, took advantage of my condition and decent blokes don't do that. That is the reaction I needed and probably the reaction you were hoping for OP?

DH and I did return to the subject a few times after the initial discussion. He did say that he was incredibly angry. Your DH may be experiencing anger about the whole situation and dealing with it v badly. But his reaction is poor. And pretty self centred. I am trying to put myself in your place and wondering what I would do if I had that conversation with DH now (after 7 years of marriage) and he reacted like your DH. I would be hurt and disappointed, but probably reluctant to let his first reaction be his last. I'd probably try and initiate another discussion and ask him to explain why he was angry and probably ask the really direct questions I need to know (I.e do you blame me! Do you think it was my fault? What did me telling you about what happened to me make you feel?) and tell him that his response had disappointed and hurt me. It would be a hugely challenging discussion, but one I would need to have.

Sorry to go on at length, but your experience has struck a cord and I hope that my experience and thoughts might be useful.

I also echo what previous posters have said about counselling. I found it helped me face up the incident and my tremendous guilt around it all. It is all genuinely behind me now. But sometimes, when we want to draw a line under something, we might benefit from some help holding the pen.

Yorkshire - I was a virgin too I think you've explained the whole thing really well. I struggle with calling my experience rape because I went on the date willingly, really fancied him, was so excited etc and I 'only' said no, didn't scream or fight physically.

Where do all these horrible myths come from? That we must fight physically? They must be a stranger etc etc patriarchal society?

YorkshireTeaDrinker thank you for sharing your story with me. In particular, your choice of words, "non-consenting sexual encounter" struck a chord with me, too. This is pretty much how I feel about my experience. I'm sorry you went through this too, and I am glad for you that your DH was so measured and respectful in his response. I don't want to walk away from my relationship, but I know I cannot quite let go of this disappointment at the nature of his reaction. I honestly wish I had never mentioned it and I know many of you have advised counselling, but honestly don't think I could ever discuss it out loud again.

Hi Peter, I just want to add another voice saying your husband's reaction was not ok and you are justified in feeling deeply let down by him.

It's not about whether a legally provable rape happened. It's about you opening up your most vulnerable side to your most loved one and being met with harshness instead of warmth. I'm sorry.

You were the good girl, it seems, in his eyes, up to now, and his anger may be linked to that image having been shaken by this revelation. And he was the good guy. Is there any significance there, that you both were invested in having found a "good" (moral?) one, not just "the" one?

I followed some of the ched Evans threads on here and although I haven't talked to DP about it, I must say I tend to mentally ascribe certain "good guy" opinions to him without ever having the actual conversation on lots of topics. I can only imagine how the ground would seem to have drastically shifted under me if he reacted like your DH, and that's without the trauma of the actual incident.

I'm so sorry I have no practical advice, just want to add to the numbers standing with you really.

You ARE good. You did not hurt or take advantage of anyone when they were in a vulnerable state. It was done TO you. You are not to blame for any of it. Not one single bit.

^^THIS.

OP, if sex occurred, it wasn't a one night stand. I would say it was rape but totally understand why you feel more comfortable with naming it a "non-consenting sexual encounter" at the moment. I do think "one night stand" should not be used in this situation.

I'm sorry your DH has reacted this way. I do understand that one of his reactions would be anger, but this is no way should be directed at you. He should understand, this is about you and YOUR reactions, not him and how he feels about it. His role as your DH is to support you and I think he's let you down badly here I'm afraid.

I would recommend you contacting rape crisis or similar for some advice and counselling as, IME, once you disclose something like this that has been bottled up for a long time, it can be very hard to get to grips with. I think his reaction will continue to affect you and hinder you moving on from this and I think you both need to address this. The one person who should believe you and support you has let you down at a time you most needed it.

I hope you're OK and hope that it time, it will be beneficial for you to have addressed this awful incident.

Add message | Report | Message poster fifi669 Sat 25-Oct-14 22:17:08
The problem is you don't know if you did consent and were swinging from the chandeliers or whether he took advantage. It probably would help to discuss it with someone else, if only to talk about your disappointment in your DH and how the uncertainty has made you feel.

Fifi, if she was in that state, she could not have consented. "Took advantage" for fucks sake. A rape apologists term of choice.

"Took advantage" by leaving her bruised and cut?

Sorry OP I will have to step away now, don't want to talk about you I'm 3rd person or derail thread. I hope you are OK..

Please call Rape Crisis OP, you need to talk about this to people who understand and will support you, not condemn you the way your DH has.

I am slightly revolted by all the excuses being made for him. He has let you down incredibly badly - there is no way you can just cover this up and move on because it has revealed some really terrible values he has which need to be aired and cleaned up before you can move forward.

In the meantime, I do think you need to speak to Rape Crisis because whether the guy raped you or not (and it sounds as though he did) they will help you and validate you in the way your DH should have done.

You know this pissed me off more than anything:

"I think your husband reacted in the way he did was because he may not of liked the idea that a man was being accused of rape when the victim couldnt remember anything."

In what world is it reasonable to believe that a man's primary concern should be for a man he has never met, who will never be affected by the conversation, rather than his wife whom he is supposed to love and support? What madness is this?

I'm sorry but his actions are not of someone who cares for you, get rid & do it now.

What happened previously? I can't comment but it doesn't sound good-you had marks on you which remain now, have I understood this right? As if so this obviously wasn't a 'normal' sexual experience. I'm sorry.

Peter I really would advise counselling when you feel up to it. I probably wouldn't have bothered, because I thought I had packed it all tightly away and I really didn't want to go there again. But I was starting to crumble and forcing myself to examine and confront what had happened was a useful step towards moving on.

Nan thank you for the . It is sad how difficult experiences turn out to be common ones. You are right I think, that our still mysoginistic society creates a situation where so many women are wounded by non-consensual sex. It seems that there is a culture of implied consent, that if a woman can not prove explicated, direct, DENIAL of consent (she didn't fight, didn't scream, didn't say no, didn't say know in a way that implied she really meant it, wasn't in a state to say no) then she must of consented. No yes is required. And so those of us in that situation, where we didn't say yes, but can't recall or vouch for the strength of our no, feel that what happened can't be called rape, that we were complicit. And then one is left feeling violated and hurt and possibility unsure that one even has the right to feel violated at all.

And such is the strength of the misogyny prevalent in our society, that even where there is an explicit no, where rape is seemingly unambiguous, the intercourse violent and forced, with visible scars, we then seek to find other ways to blame the sufferer (she was asking for it wearing those clothes, drinking so much, in that part of town, walking alone at night).

OP, your DH has had a lot to process, you have a lot to process. I would recommend talking to him again or, if talking seems impossible, write to him. He needs to know that you are disappointed and why. Then he may be able to rectify his response.

I am taking a deep breath while posting - I have read some shocking things on mumsnet and rarely post, but both your own post and the so called "advice" offered to you by some on this thread are some of the most shocking I have ever read. I'm with " yesididmean..."

Your husbands response is inexcusable and unforgivable and I really hope that - whilst you are encouraged (probably rightly) to access support and counselling, you might also realise that women constantly are the ones doing work to recover, support, understand and process the abuse/trauma they experience, whilst perpetrators carry on unscathed. Women are called " mad, bad or dangerous" for their responses to trauma - usually by psychiatry - in your case it is now your husband taking this role and I'm truly sorry and shocked that this is the case for you.

Please read your original post and trust your own instincts - you do not probably need anyone else's, although sometimes ( as you probably hoped by telling your husband) there is power and relief in speaking it out loud to people who believe you and can support you.

You have not done anything wrong or bad. In all your hurt, confusion and sadness, you may want to find some of your anger - it might feel uncomfortable but may just help you to find a way through.

OP, Just wanted to add, that my suggesting ways to reopen discussion with your DH doesn't mean I think his response is anything other than wrong. Just that it may be preferable to try and work together to getting it right.

But you know, the ONS you had was not an ONS, it was sex you did not consent to. There is a word for it.

xx

I'm so sorry for what happened to you OP. Awful, awful experience. Please be kind to yourself and do what you need to do to make yourself feel safe, and if that involves distancing yourself from people who insist on minimising your experience and even blaming you, then do it if you feel you can.

fifi669 consent must be given, it can't be implied.

Please consider and understand that before posting anything else here.

Fifi669 - reported. I don't know mumsnet rules but I am also not sure this/you are for real.