DH wants to become DW, wtf do I do?

[Icriedallnight]

I feel like my entire life is a huge lie. Bit of background, DH has always been prone to bouts if depression. He refuses to seek counselling about it and handles it his own way (by which I mean drinking a lot)

The current bout started about August this year and he's been getting progressively worse. Additionally he started spending a lot of time upstairs on the laptop and taking his phone everywhere. I felt sure that there was an OW and have been looking for signs but in all honesty there hasn't been any dodgy behaviour and all he does is go to work then come home and drink so there wouldn't be the opportunity to meet anyone else.

Last night, I was out for dinner with some friends. I came home about 1.30am and found him sitting in the sofa drunk and sobbing. He was watching a woman being interviewed on a YouTube video (weird!)

I asked what was wrong, and he said "watch this". It then became apparent that the woman being interviewed was transgender and had been born a boy. He then turned to me and said: "I want to be her"

I actually hate him right now. He's fucking lied since the day we met. I asked him how long he had felt like this and he said: " since the age of 6." Turns out all the internet browsing upstairs has been researching the process of becoming a woman.

I don't know what to do, he just cries and says he doesn't ever want to lose me. I love him so much but I feel like I must be a complete idiot- how did I miss this?! I've never had even a vague idea that he felt this way. I am ashamed to say it but I wish he had said there was an OW as then I would just kick him out but this situation feels much worse as it's a total unknown. How can he just have "forgotten" to mention this?! Considering he tells me it's all he thinks about from the minute he wakes up until when he goes to sleep you'd have thought he might have mentioned it

I don't know why I am posting really. I haven't shouted or argued with him (I just feel totally empty) and I just lay in bed crying all night. I feel horrible and I want him to make it better but at the same time as comforting me he's hurting me if that makes sense. Sorry if this isn't coherent, I'm just so tired and my head hurts. I feel sick, I can't eat anything. I don't know whether or not I want to just leave.

"But then on the other side of the coin he would always say how isolated he was. How he'd never met anyone like me and that I was so positive and fun and that made him feel better. "

You know, it's not my responsibility to make my husband happy. It's not yours to make your husband happy, either. It's a burden too many women are happy to shoulder.

The irony is, people are much happier all 'round when they take responsibility for their own happiness.

I see what you're saying lweji.
It's very hard and sad to see your daughter so ill at ease with her own body. But I've a friend whose daughter is equally dysphoric and unhappy in her skin and swears and screams that she has to be 5 stone ie she is anorexic. The medical establishment don't offer her liposuction tho, they try to get her to adjust her thinking thru a careful and multidisciplinary approach. But her problem is treated as a psychological one. The very first doctor I spoke to after my daughter said it to me offered us testosterone (ruins your fertility) and said he would be able to get her breasts removed in 18 months.
She had, like the OPs DH watched a YouTube video and showed it to me:this is what I want/need. And that's the diagnosis of transgender: does the person want to be the other sex. Solipsistic thinking. If she was slowly biologically morphing into male then that would be a sex change...but she isn't.
My diagnosis: she is a gay teen, also homophobic, who has done some magical thinking and now reckons she is a straight boy. How it is supposed to help to encourage that thinking I do not know. She will never be a man. Heavy doses of testosterone over years and years are not good for you and when stopped the body reverts back to whatever it is at DNA level although massively damaged. A donor penis will never be orgasmic although it can be pumped up by hand for sex purposes - a dismal prospect. She is 5ft nothing and pretty. She makes a sort of convincing adolescent boy but that won't last.
I've no interest in joining a support group aimed at forcing me to 'accept' it ie go along with my daughters self mutilation or mutilation at the hands of idiotic doctors. Why transgenderism is lumped in with lgb is a mystery to me anyway.
And as a PP linked there is plenty who when they get the longed for surgery after a few years want reversal >go to Belgrade where there are queues of months as they try to handle the flood of reversal patients. It's quite the fad at the mo. My mate who teaches in art college has 3 transgender people in first year

So OP I would suggest you don't get sucked in to your DHs drama. It will cost thousands of pounds and all your emotional and mental energy. Save it for yourself and your kids. There are certain people in this life who just manage to suck all available oxygen out of every fucking day and year and those close to them end up realising that they have been a bit player in someone else's life rather than living their own. Your DH is certainly upping the ante with this one and of course if you don't support him you'll be transphobic and mean and nasty. I must say like cogito said that the transgenderism might be a red herring and he is just a selfish selfish man.
Sorry for the gimungous rant need a cup of camomile tea after that hope you're ok today OP

whatthe if you don't support him you'll be transphobic and mean and nasty
This is exactly what I get from DH. I reslly try to understand, but it's difficult. I get told I am small-minded, although I take him shopping and try to find styles that suit his figure. But money doesn't grow on trees, so when I say enough is enough or flip because he defaulted a mortgage payment to buy a handbag/shoes it's apparently just because I don't make an effort to understand!

Or if on our wedding anniversary I ask him to dress male, which he does still do 75% of the time as he says it's easier to get by.
DH has decided not to live full time as a woman for this reason. then I am transphobic.

He also thinks it is ok to get into our bed in silky nightwear whenever he pleases.

people are too quick to shout trans/homophobic. There's a vast difference between accepting people for who they are and making them part of who you are - iyswim.

If someone wants to live as a man/woman then carry on. But that doesn't mean they can start claiming special treatment e.g. going out to buy handbags at the drop of a hat when their "wife" wouldn't previously have done the same. If you want to live as a woman then you need to realise that doesn't make you special - live as a woman and get over the fact that no-one actually gives a shit about what heels you buy or the colour of your handbag.

And if someone wants to live as a woman they can hardly be put out when the woman they married no longer wants to know because they're no longer what they signed up for.

This ^

If he wans other people to respect his choice to live as he please then OP he also has to respect yours. So this really is your choice too. You cannot change the way he feels but you can decide how you feel and choose accordingly.

whatthe your posts have been very interesting and thought provoking. I hope both you and your dd manage to find a way forwards.

Thinking about it I had all kinds of unhappy thoughts as a teen and wanted all kinds of changes of myself (none as drastic as that) but I still see I just needed time to grow into myself (it took till I was 30).
I think there is a difference between intersex, where for physiological and genetic reasons gender is unclear, and being clearly born one gender but being unhappy. For intersex, surgery might be very helpful to allow someone to choose to be clearly one gender although equally an intersex individual might choose to remain as they are. But yes I see now from.what you have said how drastic an option it is otherwise and not to be offered just to be pc. I thought there was a long counselling process and a requirement to live as the other gender for a set period of time.

I also know of someone who transitioned and is now suicidally unhappy.

I think it is an option that people who feel they need to can explore i.e. they should not be afraid to have these feelings, to express them but must also really deeply explore them including the consequences such as that their life partner may not want this and that it is their right not to want such a massive choice made for them.

Op both you and your dh have a lot of thinking to do. You may want to consider whether you want to be with him even if he decides not to transition. He sounds hard work. And as pp said change of anatomy is not a change of personality.

But money doesn't grow on trees, so when I say enough is enough or flip because he defaulted a mortgage payment to buy a handbag/shoes it's apparently just because I don't make an effort to understand!

Fuck me duchess you must be at your wits end.
It's so narcissistic, my god does he realise the strain on you? Do you have children? What about the effect on them?

justice I agree that there is a fundamental difference between people who are born intersex or have an extra X chromosome and people who decide that being the other gender is something they need
I'm not doubting that it's what they want but it takes a special kind of selfishness to demand that ££££s of family money get spent on one member of the family to enable them to get plastic surgery which will distress the fuck out of everyone around them.

What about an understanding of gender as more of a spectrum where we acknowledge that there is no such thing as gender appropriate behaviour? There are some radical feminists who believe that gender appropriate behaviour is a social construct which serves a patriarchal world and keeps women in their 'place'. I don't know. But treating a psychological disorder surgically is a category error IMHO
If it was my DH wanting this kind of special consideration I would have to divorce. I'd be too pissed off and couldn't respect someone being so selfish and self absorbed. In a suffering world? NO. Tough shit. You want you want. Sometimes we don't get what we want. It's hard enough to deal with in a sweet confused but determined adolescent. My god in an adult I'd have zip sympathy.

No children. I had finally persuaded him to ttc after 15 years together when all this came out. Natural conception is now unlikely to happen as sex is off the menu. He wants to adopt.

I have asked him what he thinks it means to be a woman, something I couldn't answer myself and I've been female all my life!
He says its just a feeling and I don't understand as I am not "girly" enough
I love to dress up for a night out, but jeans and boots are far more practical for my line of work/dog walking etc.
Dog does not care if I wear make up as long as I throw his ball!
Every time we argue he says it is because I an due on.No matter where in my cycle I am. "It's nothing to do with dates, it's about the change in personality" ???
So I can't have a point to make without being hormonal.
He thinks he would make a better woman than most natural women as he would not have mood swings.
He can still be really loving and thoughtful though.

Duchess I can't for the life of me see why you are still with him. It's all about him! He's dismissive, rude, uncaring, dictatorial, immature and has ruined your hopes of having children if you stay with him. You won't be approved to adopt with the state of your relationship, no chance. Sorry to say that.

Duchess that sounds like an abusive relationship
He bullies and belittles you even to the point that he reckons he makes a better woman that you
Bollox to that. More likely he is pathologically jealous of you. Get away from him my dear. He is stealing your life.

*that=than

duchess.

Your "h" sounds like an abusive tosser. If you posted about him in relationships without reference to his wanting to be a woman you would get a resounding ltb response.

My friend was incidentally in the beginning stages of going through the adoption process when her h came out as transgender. They were told they wouldn't be able to continue even though she had decided to stay with him because he was not at that point in a stable position i.e. he still had to go through the process of living as a woman for a set period and so on. Your h doesn't sound nearly stable enough to adopt a child who itself is going through issues, and tbh it wouldn't be a stable environment to bring any child into.

Please get away from this man, you still have every chance of having children, just not with him.

"Every time we argue he says it is because I an due on.No matter where in my cycle I am. "It's nothing to do with dates, it's about the change in personality" ???
So I can't have a point to make without being hormonal.
He thinks he would make a better woman than most natural women as he would not have mood swings."

Wow, emotionally abusive and a misogynist to boot. Surely you could do a lot better, Duchess?

When we marry, or enter a serious relationship, we do have a sort of duty of care for the other person, but the other person also has that duty in relation to us.
It is laudable to support the other person when they go through difficult times, but not when they abuse it. They do have to help themselves as well.

But... you can leave a relationship when you want it, for any reason. You are not a bad person if you leave a relationship that makes you miserable.

We often see partners sticking out through serious disease but I bet the ill person is still a good person who doesn't put down their carer.

OP I am sorry your DH is putting you through this. He sounds like a very confused, self destructive person. From your account we don't really know whether he wants to be a woman or not. Tbh I would put that issue aside for the moment and focus on the fact that has been drinking heavily long term, not seeking help for his depression, often treating you as a bit player in his life rather than a true partner. I don't think this is a good environment for a child (regardless of his gender uncertainty). If you want DC you need to decide whether you think he can change, or you need to start afresh.

For his gender uncertainty he really needs to see his GP and seek onward referral, even if he Isn't sure what he wants, he can get proper information and advice.

There are some very understanding women on this thread.

If DH were to tell me that he thinks he is a woman and starts wearing women's clothes to bed, that would bring a swift end to our marriage. We can be friends once he finds himself or whatever but there is no way in this universe or any hypothetical parallel ones that I will stay in a marriage with an adult human male who thinks he is female.

And that is before he dares tell me I'm not feminine enough and he can be a "better woman" than me

You are quite right cote
But where is icried ?
What's happening OP?

Something As someone who has a partner affected by this but who told me when we got together and allowed me to make a decision before starting a family, it is selfish. It's not being trans that is selfish, it's the lying and deceit.

OP I really hope that you can come to terms with this, whatever your decision is, don't ever feel guilty or bad about it. There have been some great posters on this thread with great and knowledgeable advice.

I will say though, DP did the "pushing feelings down" and he has been different since he made the decision to do that, I sort of miss who he was when he was embracing who he is a bit more (the personality bit, not the dressing). If these are what his true feelings are, it never really works to try and stop it, after all that's how people in this position end up depressed and in a mess in the first place.

What Whatthefucknow says is also extremely worrying about her daughter being offered such radical treatment by her GP without first insisting that she have serious counselling.

Wannabe, new same sex marriage laws mean marriage stays valid even if one partner obtains gender recognition certificate. Previously had to get divorced in order to be granted the certificate but marriage could not just be annulled because one partner decides to identify as the other gender.

but marriage could not just be annulled because one partner decides to identify as the other gender.

I don't know the legality, but I'd say that the marriage does not have to be annulled, but I'd think it would be grounds for annullment.

Not annullment - that is a very specific action, retrospective and declaring that a marriage has always been null and void.

But until a person decides to declare their intentions to change gender it would be presumed that the marriage was as you'd expect... unless otherwise proven. Gender change alone would not set aside a marriage, but would be grounds for divorce. One I would expect most women in OPs position to go for.

whatthe and duchess - reading your posts with alarm and empathy. My DS has just announced (v reminiscent of your DD) that because he is gentle and kind and doesn't like rugby (he even made a male/female list) and has been on some internet chatrooms he is transgender. Am finding it VERY hard to accept and oscillating between that and if the courageous thing to do is to sacrifice my relationship with him by making much more of a fuss...like you, GP has referred him straight onto the clinic. He has Asperger's! And clinical depression!!!

Argh...

It's so upsetting stinkingbishop and if I were you I'd fight it especially if he suffers depression. Suicide rates go through the roof in ageing transgender population. Get him off the chat rooms and to a good psychotherapist. I spoke to a doctor in America who pioneered GRS and he or Johns Hopkins hospital where he did it refuse to treat gender dysphoric patients with hormones or surgery anymore because it doesn't fucking work or help. (Check out most recent study done at Karolinska university in Sweden). He said he is constantly being attacked and silenced by transgender lobby groups as transphobic even tho he was a pioneer in that field. The long term outcomes and the physical toll on the body are disastrous. He recommended family therapy and asked about attachment disorders. He wished me luck but said I would be fighting a hard fight against online love-bombing etc
He reckons in 20 yrs it will be seen as barbaric to have operated and drugged people. Everything inside me agrees.
Also, and I'm on my soapbox again, it's incredibly conservative to talk about male v female traits. Not having a go at your son of course-talking about societal norms. Gender stereotypes are socially constructed starting with the first 'it's a girl/boy!' pink/blue birth cards. Hate it hate it and now, omg my poor little girl
I swear that it will be over my dead body that anyone takes a knife to her or drugs her. Although I've no prob whatsoever with her going around with short hair and shirt and tie to school. Gender bending is fine in my book, and interesting to a point.
Loathe all the parents who are putting themselves on YouTube as proud supporters of trans kids and paying for their children to be mutilated. They are deluded or attention seeking. Poor kids.

And just a small correction mexican it wasn't our GP who recommended the strap-on etc for our daughter, it was a highly recommended specialist doctor attached to a well known hospital who I was directed to by her school. What a PRICK.