Fathers and sons

[Bells2]

Just wondered how others cope with partners who take risks with their small children that they find terrifying.. my husband is absolutely great with our 2 1/4 year old son and they often go off to the park and so on together. However, my idea of what is dangerous and his often differ sharply and I sometimes get very upset when I witness him doing something with our son which to my mind cold potentially lead to a nasty accident. I just don't think he is very good at anticipating possble outcomes of situations and a number of times, I have been reduced to tears over this.

My husband is very apologetic when he sees how upset I am and also, on a few occassions when he has realised the full potential implications of various activities but nonethless I find it difficult to know how to react. I am reluctant to turn into a constant nagging spoilsport but equally, I think I need to be able to relax and not constantly worry that our son isn't going to be put in mortal danger on a regular basis.

With great difficulty, Bells...under dh's expert supervision over the past two years, my son has plunged off a changing table onto a concrete floor, shut his finger in a door and walked into a doorframe so hard that he had a black bruise on his forehead for a week.
We manage to agree pretty well on a lot of parenting issues, luckily, but this is one area where I really see red. My husband will fuss over our little guy to a ridiculous level where it is not really required (since when was a spotless park sandpit a potentially lethal toxic swamp...) but bury his nose in a book and be oblivious to the sound of a small child tugging an electrical flex or scaling a music centre. This is usually when I am off doing something self-indulgent like loading the washing machine or hacking away at the freezer. As in your house, there are contrite apologies AFTERWARDS.
I tend to descend to biting sarcasm and the cold treatment, I'm ashamed to say. Sometimes I get so fed up with being the all-purpose grown-up in our home...not an answer, but a sincere commiseration.

You're probably not going to like this, but I don't think there is much you can do. I've been there - cringing when I see our son hanging off the top of the slide by his feet egged on by his dad, running to stop him plummeting 10ft to the ground (which of course never happens). The trick is either not to go with them on these 'adventures' so you don't see what they get up to, or to just accept that they are having a good time - it will probably end in tears, but hopefully nothing too drastic.

There was a great article a while ago by Dr Fuerdi (sp?) about how children need to take risks, to be able to weigh up problems for themselves. We cosset them with 'safe' play areas, bark chippings, rubber matting, safety nets and as a result children are growing up with out a spirit of adventure or learning what's safe and what's not for themselves. Think back to your childhood and some of the crazy things you did. I remember shinning down a bank, inching my way across a pipe across our local stream, throwing ourselves off of the swings to see who could jump the furtherest and we were lucky if they had any grass under them!

Take a deep breath and look away, or join in, positioning yourself in the path of any potential danger. If you are really unhappy then put a stop to it - no point in having a coronary if its really upsetting you!

What's that old saying? God looks after drunks and little children!

Being a somewhat more dreamy person than my husband, Bells, I'm afraid the opposite happens in our house. Dh is usually the one seeing red about what he considers my lack of intervention in a potentially dangerous or damaging situation.

I don't think there is an easy answer to this. Every person is going to have their own concept of exactly what is safe and what is not. All you can do is keep talking about it and come up with some firm rules over what is or is not allowed. I have to say this is an increasing issue the older and more mobile our 7 year old ds becomes. I am always talking over with dh about what we agree our son is allowed to do regarding playing out with his bike etc - and I will also phone dh on his mobile to check we are in agreement if my son is disputing a point of freedom versus safety.

Going back to your situation with your 2 year old, IMO a slight bending of the truth may be helpful. If there is one particular thing that your dh allows that you find a real no no, why not mention that when ds did this with you it ended in tears and he nearly came a cropper. Just a thought.

Bells, I am the same, dh throws our son all over the place, hanging him upside down and all sorts, with our son happily laughing the whole time. I sit there constantly saying, 'Oh my god be careful, dont do that he might get hurt' etc etc. But they are having fun and ds looks to his dad for this kind of play. I have had to come to terms, while keeping a watchful eye, that this is probably father and son stuff and dh would never do anything to harm our son, although I am sure we will have the odd accident.

I think this is probably one area that shows why ideally kids need a mother and a father in their lives. My dh does all sorts of things with our kids that I wouldn't dare to do, and they love it. They've certainly learnt to do things (especially physically) that they probably wouldn't have done yet if it was left to me! Maybe they need Dad to push the boundaries outwards and teach them about risk, whereas Mum is the cuddly and caring one who they can turn to for reassurance etc? Sounds like terrible stereotyping, I know, but from personal observation this seems to be the case.

Thanks for the responses. I am sure you are all basically right that the best thing to do is relax more. My husband's behaviour does fall into 2 categories 1) reckless and rough play which I guess I can accept is unlikely to result in material harm to either party and 2) gob-smacking forgetfulness / obtuseness of the sort that involves leaving carving knives / power tools etc within reach of an unsupervised toddler and getting into a situation where he is left to run out on to a road in pursuit of a ball and so on.

I think I should focus on solving the latter and as Tigermoth suggests, establishing some basic and firm ground rules for the former.

Oh gawd! in our household we have a complete mish mash. Dh is generally worried about any and all potential injuries to ds to the point of neurosis but will leaves hot drinks, knives, DIY equiptment within the reach of ds!! Everytime ds crawls under the dining table, we have a chorus of "mind your head , be careful, ooh, mind your head.." until until our poor 3 year old gives up and just comes out.

I think it would be helpful for dh to read an article from an "expert" on the benefits of taking risks - my views don't really count for much in these matters! Emmam, can you remember where and approximately when the Dr Fuerdi article was printed?

Thank you for your comments Azzie. I am sure that my husband is the reason why so much gets done in our house, and his imput into the children's development is crucial.

I am always dismayed at the lack of input allowed by fathers, in society, and the difficulties they face. It would be good if we could acknowledge men's input in child-rearing, without feeling that we are poor mother's, or suggesting that we cannot cope.

Sis, it was in the Times and within the last 6 months. It was in their Times 2 section and came under a parenting theme. I'm sorry I can't be any more helpful than that.

Sis - found it. The article appeared in the Weekend addition of the Times, Saturday 17th March 2001. Its called, 'Jump, son, I won't catch you' by Frank Furedi. I found it by searching on the Times Online very easily. It comes from his book Paranoid Parenting.

Bells2 - its a good article, might make you feel a bit more relaxed about dangerous dads!

HeatherKing - your husband is the reason so much gets done in the house?! Really? Want to swap husbands?

And anyway, I think that society does let fathers have a lot of input. The only thing that ever stopped fathers getting involved with their kids was themselves and the attitude "I work all day therefore my tea should be on the table and the kids nice and clean." Some men still have that attitude, it's just that us women are no longer prepared to put up with it. And to be fair to men, they do seem to enjoy raising their children now. Mine does anyway.

So does mine, Lisav - he's just turned down a very important (for his career) business trip to the States because it is our daughter's birthday. She'll be 2, and we could easily pretend that her birthday is a different day without her being any the wiser, but his priority is with his family and I applaud him for that.

Whilst I commend husbands who put their families first, I would like to say that there is nothing wrong with a husband who expects a certain level of service when he returns home.

Whilst women work hard at home, men work equally hard at the office, and do not have time for the homely comforts that make life worth living.

We have found that mealtimes make for a good transition period so that my husband can adjust to the home. This prevents him from bringing the stress of the outside world into the home.

Many thanks Emmam and Star, I'll start checking out the on-line achives. Trouble is that I have such a short attention span that when I start a search I always go off-course and end up reading stuff totally unrelated to the original search...

BTW, just like to add my thanks to the contributors on the various threads - I've learned so much since registering with mumsnet just a few weeks ago. at times I feel bad for not having a greater input - but everytime I think of anything which may be useful, yep, you've guessed it, someone gets there before me!

Oh well, I'm sure I'll find a use for myself someday.

Goodness Heatherking - "a certain level of service when he gets home". Hmmm, what about those of us work too? I work part-time and do generally tend to contribute more toward the running of our house but I would hate to think that my husband might expect a certain level of service, because I would be worried that he was taking me for granted.
I don't expect him to bring in a certain level of salary as that is not why I married him, so I wouldn't expect him to view me in a similar way about our household.
However, horses for courses I guess!

Heatherking, yes of course in an equal partnership a husband and wife should work equally as hard for the family, whether their workplace is at home or elsewhere. But if my husband uttered the words - 'I expect a certain level of service' - with a straight face, the last thing he'd have that evening would be a peaceful supper to enable him to wind down after the stress of his working day.

Personally I think those returning from work outside the home should be prepared to roll up their sleeves and muck in. The work inside a home never really stops. And I say this as the going-out-to-work wife of a more home-based working husband.

Going back to husbands taking risk. Tonight I found out that 6 months ago when my DS was 6yrs and 2 months old, he was allowed to go to the toilet on his own whilst out at the cinema in Florida on holiday! Good bloody job he came back that's all I can say. My husband obviously didn't want to miss any of Shrek! R.

Gosh this is like a Persil ad!

The Equal Opportunites comission are bringing out an ad to stop gender divisions. I don't fancy their chances.

I must say it's refreshing to hear Heatherking's comments. What's wrong with gender defined roles - blimey, I'd give my right arm for one.
As someone who works in a demanding and stressful job AND brings up two children under six AND runs a house I'd love to only have to worry about my family's needs.
When I'm off work and relaxed enough to concenrate on them we're so much happier as a family. Meanwhile I enjoy making life easier for my husband because it's easier for me.
I'm also far more in the mood for sex so we have great fun servicing each others needs!
Bring back pinnies - we'd all be so much happier!!

Melsj, if you really think we women were happier in the 'good old days', read this article in today's Times: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,7-2001374927,00.html
It's about the life of a young Afghan girl.
We may not yet have worked out the perfect balance of work/homemaking in our culture and time, but at least we are trying to ensure that people can achieve their potential and lead a fulfilling life, regardless of gender.

Mooma, thanks for directing us to the article. I agree with you whole-heartedly. Surely the point is one that has been made time and time again on this site. Equality is about choice, it is not about making judgements. Live and let live I say, but whatever path one chooses appreciate the fact that feminism has helped to create a society where we can choose our roles whatever our gender. It's not perfect but it is making way for the next generation to have even more choice.

I do not see the problem with gender divisions, particularly in a society that as yet hasn't put its money where its mouth is and legislated paid paternity leave.

I was more than capable of matching my husbands career, but, having taken 3 years out to raise children, I now see that it is more productive to push my husbands career so that we can maximise his earning potential.

I work all the hours God sends to help my children, but I find it difficult to equate my efforts with those of my husband who works on large-scale projects worth huge amounts of money.

I'm sorry Rhiannon, but your post really made me laugh. Men, eh!