Fathers and sons

[Bells2]

Just wondered how others cope with partners who take risks with their small children that they find terrifying.. my husband is absolutely great with our 2 1/4 year old son and they often go off to the park and so on together. However, my idea of what is dangerous and his often differ sharply and I sometimes get very upset when I witness him doing something with our son which to my mind cold potentially lead to a nasty accident. I just don't think he is very good at anticipating possble outcomes of situations and a number of times, I have been reduced to tears over this.

My husband is very apologetic when he sees how upset I am and also, on a few occassions when he has realised the full potential implications of various activities but nonethless I find it difficult to know how to react. I am reluctant to turn into a constant nagging spoilsport but equally, I think I need to be able to relax and not constantly worry that our son isn't going to be put in mortal danger on a regular basis.

I agree with mooma, azzie, star et al and would also add that I haven,t noticed any anti-men sentiments in this thread. Sometimes, after a tough day, it can be useful to let off steam about our partners and say things on mumsnet which we only feel temporarily - but need to get out of the system.

However, saying that family roles should as opposed to could be gender based seems to take away the right of choice not only from women, but also from men. Just as there are husband batterers out there, there are men who would choose to be stay-at-home-dads. Surely advocating the removal of this choice is both anti-women and anti-men.

Too right Sis. It's a shame Tom (from Fathers Direct) is not posting here at the minute, we had a very interesting and thought-provoking discussion about choices in parenting for both parents where the dad's point of view was put forward. And as for letting off steam, well I look back on some of my postings on this site (and e-mails to friends at the time) and realise how vital it was to be able to release some pressure at a difficult time in our family's life. It is temporary, usually. I am lucky to be able to say that the work-life balance in our house, where we both still work full-time outside the home through financial necessity, is so much better and happier now.
I always thought the late, lamented Angela Carter wrote fiction. I never really construed her wonderful books as a life manual for "feminists".
Star already said: feminism is about equality and mutual respect. Women only got the vote in this country less than a century ago, and I think Mooma's point about the compulsory application of "traditional" gender roles around the world was a good one.

Am I the only one who thinks it strange that people like "Mrs Hudson" and "Heatherking" appear from nowhere and only post on one subject in situations like this???.

Hmmmm I just don't know what to think Gracie. As an aside, I was in a branch of Oasis recently, and noticed, in their special christmas presents display, a book entitled 'The women's guide to the web'. Bright pink and very girly-looking. Under parenting, mumsnet was given a huge plug and pride of place.

I've been dying to jump into this debate but have restrained myself so far, thinking I'm not really "qualified" since I'm a feckless single mother. However..........

Gracie - good point

With regards to feminism - it's already been said, but it has nothing to do with men-hating. This is resorting to stereotyping. I still cringe when I recall being asked, at 21, by my male boss "You're not a feminist, are you?" and I just demurred and said "No". Should have said, "Of course, aren't you?". Feminism is surely just about putting women on an equal footing with men with regards to the choices they want to make in their lives. As someone who works full time, I would suggest many men "choose" to work rather than be stay-at-home parents because it's actaully a little less stressful at work - in my opinion.

Someone else made the comment about families needing 2 parents because the father's input is slightly different from the mother's. I agree that, in general, mothers and fathers relate to their children in different ways - fathers being more playful, a touch rougher etc. The downside (one off them) for single parents is that they have to try to fulfill both roles. However, I think families need 2 parents mainly for the benefit of the parents. I find it an awful lot easier coping with a demanding child when there is another adult around to inject a little humour or create a distraction.

I know a few couples where the father stays at home and looks after the children and the mother works full time (by mutual and happy agreement). I can't imagine the women in these situations making statements along the lines of "expecting a certain level of service" from their husbands and commenting that their husband's contribution to the family unit cannot be compared to their own because of the financial rewards involved. It just seems unthinkable that a woman in this situation would be that arrogant....

There's no way in this world I would provide "a level of service" to my partner. It makes you sound like your husband/partner's employee!!!
We take it in turns to do the household chores, and although I now work full time, we did this when I was on maternity leave.
As for pinnies - well, my other half would look good in one....but only if he had nothing on underneath lol!!!!

Star, what do you mean when you say 'Your career can't have been that valuable?' Were you meaning in financial terms or status or fulfillment or self esteeem? I was just wondering, as I've been thinking about this thread a bit.

PS I'm dead chuffed to know that I have it 'a bit easy' as a SAHM with four kids!! At least when I was working I could afford a cleaner, which I can't now, sadly.

Yes, I was Chairmum, Star. Look here for an explanation.

I work and bring up the children and do the housework and do the DIY and the decorating. A "level of service" when I come home would be most welcome!

This is the only thread I have contributed to so far as it seems really interesting and provokes some good debates, however I will look at the others, I just didn't feel as qualified to contribute to them.

Of course not everyone shares my views on gender roles and I am often thought of as old-fashioned. But me and my husband are quite happy the way we are, so that must count for something. We are quite religious you see, and do follow the Bible strictly. So although most of you might have said the 'obey' line when you got married, many of you may not follow it as closely as I do.

Also I don't agree that stay-at-home mums have it easy. I have to do all the washing, cleaning, cooking, gardening and childcare. My husband would not know how to turn the hoover on! As for childcare, he gurgles with the baby, then when she cries he passes her over to me!

Mrshudson
Are you a man in disguise trying to wind women up by saying what you really want wives to be like?

C'mon girls, give Mrshudson a chance. Why does she have to be a wind-up, just because she expresses out of favour views? To be honest, if it wasn't for the fact she doesn't have access to a computer, I would think it was my older sister posting!

Mrshudson isn't alone in her opinions, there are a number of Christian religious groups who have similar views, both in the UK and America, that I know of. Okay, I don't necessarily agree with them but they have the right to those opinions without being called imposters.

Message withdrawn

I deliberately left out the obey part from my marriage vows so that when I don't want to do something dh asks, I'm not breaking them. I think that this is something that most women do nowadays. It doesn't make us all extreme feminists but is just a common-sense approach to marriage in these days of equality.

My doing most of the household chores is nothing to do with my religion, I do them because it's my job. As my husband works all day, I do all the housework as that is my 'work' for the day. I get housekeeping money which I view as my wages for the work I do.

I know a lot of families for who this role is reversed. One lady I know does not work, but sits at home all day whilst her husband goes to work, and then he comes home and does the housework too. She says she doesn't like housekeeping. That's their business anyway.

I take it most of you work? I would like to know how many stay-at-home mothers do all that I do, but they don't admit to it for fear of being labelled a pushover. What is wrong exactly with doing the housework and making your husband his tea when he gets home? At least I admit to doing all of this, instead of pretending to be a feminist. Equality is fine if you are both working, but in my humble opinion, if one person is not working (i.e. a paid job) then it is unreasonable to expect the other to do their 'share' of the housework. You wouldn't do their 'share' of their paid work would you?

Am I being unreasonable in having this view?

Mrshudson, I agree with you... When DH didn't work he did all the house work + shopping + taking care of the kids, etc ... the only thing I did was clean the bathroom mainly because he hates it and I was so use to doing it. On week-ends we share the cooking and the kids. The cleaning , food shopping and ironing is left for the week for DH. As a career woman, I really enjoy not having to worry about these things (I can go on business trips and not stress about how they (DH + DS + DD) will cope, in return I bring a pay check and gratitude.
Currently I am on maternity leave and he still doesn't work so we share roughly 50:50.
Housework and "paid" work are both hard, in slightly different ways.

Message withdrawn

MrsHudson, I agree that as a SAHM you would see your job as doing the house 'work' while your husband does paid 'work' but it was a joint decision, surely, to have children so I don't think that the woman should have sole responsibility of child care in the home.

I just cannot agree with you that you think your role as a housewife and mother doesn't equate to your husband's - it really sounds to me like you are basing this on the fact that he earns money and you don't.

I am also a Christian and the idea that I should 'obey' my husband just isn't an issue, because we have respect for one another as individuals, but also we are 'one flesh', so are equal. My obedience is to God - humans make mistakes so to obey someone without question just doesn't make sense to me.

I do see Mrs Hudson's point. I'm also a SAHM so obviously get on with the housework when dh is at work because I am at home to do so. Howevever, with 3 young children to care for also, there is a limit to what I can physically do. I don't expect my dh to go mad house cleaning when he gets back from work, but if the house is in chaos and the children need putting to bed, I don't expect him to sit on his backside wanting me to wait on him either! (He wouldn't dare do this of course!).