Alcohol wins

[mummaduke]

I've posted here before about DH's alcoholic tendencies... I've been advised to seek al anon, I've been advised to LTB... But tonight, I genuinely need to know if I'm over reacting or if there's a real and serious problem here that I was right to start a huge fight about.

Basically, found out yesterday that we are expecting DC2 in early June. This is a huge shock. We literally had sex once in the last 3 months. While far far sooner than expected, we're both thrilled. However, it's still come as a huge shock, and it hasn't sank in at all. I'm still very much trying to get my head around it and I'm feeling extremely emotional.

So, DH went to work today, and called me from a client lunch around 4, saying he was out drinking wine, eating lobster etc. I asked him at that point to please curb the booze, I really needed him to be sober tonight. He also had a friends birthday drinks to stop at on the way home.

Low and behold, he rocks up at 9.30, pissed as a fart (but denying he's that bad).

I have hit the roof. I've literally gone ape shit. This is all in the bigger context of many many many previous drink related arguments... Many of which happened the last time I was pregnant. He is not a good, or happy drunk. He becomes verbally abusive. He knows this and has admitted to having a problem.

Am I in the wrong? Should I be more tolerant? He has tonight accused me of being controlling, and told me I perhaps need to find someone who doesn't want to have a social life. He's said he's clearly bit the right man for me. He's twisting this and making it my problem.

I am at a loss. I was so hurt that he couldn't stay sober for me, that I told him I'm questioning whether I even want this baby with him. He's hit the roof in response, and is refusing to talk to me.

It's a stand off. How can I possibly get this back on track?

I forgot to add, and key to my being so upset, is that he promised he wouldn't get drunk. He assured me he'd be fine.

He came home drinking of booze, eyes literally rolling, and slurring his words. To me, this is drunk. To him, it is no big deal.

*stinking of booze

Are you posting to ask if he will change?

Or if you should accept that this is how he is and either put and shut up or leave?

He wont change as he has no incentive to do so. You have hit the roof before, he gets abusive, things are frosty for a while and then it settles down....until the next time.

Should you accept that this is how he is? Yes. What you do with that is up to you. Personally I would be asking him to leave until he is prepared to deal with his drinking and makes positive steps to do so. And I wouldnt fall for the "but I have to drink at client lunches!", no he doesnt, he chooses to.

Dont let this affect how you feel about your baby, and dont try and use the baby to blackmail him into changing as that is very likely to back fire and make things worse (as it did tonight). I know you didnt mean it in a blackmail way but that is how it will come across.

I suggest that you ask him to move out for a couple of weeks while you consider whether you can continue in the marriage.

Oh and word to the wise, never hit the roof when they are drunk. They dont respond well and dont remember most of it the next day. Trying to reason/argue with a drunk is an exercise in futility.

Well, I know a lot if folk don't see alcohol and being drunk as a problem, but if you know he has a problem with it, he probably knows too and is in denial about it. And that's something an addict does. Drinking half the day away isn't good for anyone. When he's breaking promises about it, promising he wouldn't get drunk, it's not a 'special occasion' like New Year, then alcohol is winning and in control.

Hey, just didn't want to read and run. You are not over reacting. I would definitely speak to al anon. He needs to realise this is a problem but only he can do that. Really, he is in denial. But al anon will help.

I meant to ask, how often does he drink and how often does he drink to the point he was at tonight? What would be "normal" consumption for him?

Like Bogeyface says, you need to work out how you deal with it and how you move forward from here. You have 2 DC to think about and the effect on them in all scenarios.

I would disagree that the alcohol is definitely in control. Some people can go for months without a drink but when they do they cant stop, they are not dependent but they dont have the "off" switch that most people have.

They are the archetypal Binge Drinker. Doesnt do it often but when they do.....

However I would agree that he probably knows that (alcoholic or not), he cant control his drinking and his sulking and aggression is his anger at the fact that he cant control it.

They have argued before about it though bogeyface and op has said he becomes verbally abusive. It may not be every day but once a week or month? How often is too much? Binge drinking is out of control behaviour. Yes many do it but drink is then in control.

He's a regular drinker. Most nights. Often just a beer, sometimes a bottle of wine, occasionally far more.

He has never been a good drinker. Two pints and he's well on his way to drunk.

Unfortunately I'm no good at going to sleep on a fight (see 2.30am post here!). I tried to reason with him. I desperately don't want to fight.

He can be a huge drama queen. My statement that he's pushed me too far tonight, and I'm seriously questioning the marriage, has indeed backfired and he won't talk to me at all.

His winning line tonight was 'can't you just cut me some slack? Maybe I like getting pissed'. This from the man who 4 weeks ago admitted a drinking problem.

I tried to reason with him.

You can never reason with a drunk.

He can be a huge drama queen. My statement that he's pushed me too far tonight, and I'm seriously questioning the marriage, has indeed backfired and he won't talk to me at all.

He isnt being a drama queen, he is being a drunk and that means huge OTT reactions. Thats why your statement about your marriage didnt give him the shock you hoped. He was drunk so his drunk brain was thinking "good, fucking leave, then I can have a drink without you going OTT". You are expecting him to react as a rational sober person would and he is incapable of that when he is in this state. Thats why I said that trying to argue or reason with a drunk is pointless.

I suggest you wait until his hangover has subsided and then lay it on the line. What he does then is up to him but I would certainly insist that he moves out for a while so he can clean up his act. I personally wouldnt recommend AA as I dont think that their attitude to alcohol is any more healthy than being an active alcoholic. I know someone who did AA who still attends meetings despite being dry for 12 years, he is convinced that if he doesnt then he will be drinking again within days. Imo the alcohol is still in control if you go the AA route no matter how long you go between drinks because they make it so.

But there are some very good addiction therapists/counsellors out there that take a more balanced view and it sounds like he would benefit from seeing one.

He won't change no matter how many times you have a go at him over it. I deal with this with mine. He just sneaks around drinking behind my back. You just get used to it.

Maybe he is right... maybe this drunken man who you feel will put alcohol before you and your children, who will spend a lot of money on said alcohol and not on said children ... maybe he is not the right one for you.

Maybe a man who promises not to drink and then does not drink, is the man for you.

mummaduke, I'm sorry to hear where you are. I have been in a very similar position; and I do sympathise.
The key is that as you point out, the alcohol is winning. The only insight I can share is: do not attempt to control. Accept you cannot change whether he drinks or not. But do think very carefully about how your life, and that of your children should be. Set your boundaries. In other words you can't say to him " don't drink tonight", but do say "I cannot live with someone whose drinking is so out of control that I don't know when it's going to kick off'. And then you can take steps if things don't change.

Don't cover up for him, to others, or make excuses to yourself. Would you treat someone else the way he is speaking to you? Ultimately you can only control your life, and he can control his. And he needs to take responsibility for this verbal abuse- drunk or not , it's really not acceptable. Does that make sense?

I spent a lot of time with my ex alternately, pleading, demanding, shouting, crying, not drinking myself, being sympathetic, being angry, hiding bottles etc etc etc, before it finally got through to me- he had to make the choice not me! You might find al anon useful to give you strength and perspective.

Personally I think AA is great, my ex found great support there, he is now sober and takes responsibility for himself and is all round a much nicer person. But it's not for everyone - and fundamentally at the moment your husband has to choose to recognise he has a problem - step number 1.....

Peasandlove - you should never just have to get used to it. You and the other OP are worth so much more than just 'getting used to it'.

Of course UANBU.

He needs to want to stop though otherwise it will never happen. AA changed my entire life. I can't ever say enough good things about it but know some people just don't get it.

I do wonder of you why you are still with him at all because alcoholism is one fight you cannot win.

You cannot get this back on track for many reasons; one being is because he does not want your "help" to do so. He sees you now as white noise spoiling his drinking time. He is not a drama queen; he is a drunkard and a nasty one at that. He is likely badly underestimating how much he is drinking as well.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships here; surely not this dysfunctional role model of one?.

His primary relationship is with drink with everything and everyone else coming a dim and distant second even if the rest does figure on his priority list. He holds down a job, well currently at least, but for how much longer?. He could go onto lose everything and still drink afterwards.

BTW did you yourself grow up within a household where one parent drank heavily?.

He has to want to go to AA and do that for his own self, not for you or anyone else. He is not ready or able to do so either so suggesting that to him will be a wasted effort as would further talking to him. You end up going around in circles.

You are playing out the usual roles here as his spouse of enabler and or provoker; you never forget. He in his mind is allowed to "fail" by drinking again, you are not allowed to "fail". He hates you for spoiling his "fun" and his comments are totally typical in that respect.

This is how life pretty much pans out with a problem drinker, this being the latest in a long line of problems from him you have already seen. It is really chaotic and a nightmare for your children who will go onto see and hear far more than you care to realise.

I would also suggest you yourself contact Al-anon as they could well help you here. You cannot help anyone who does not want to be helped and you cannot save anyone who does not want to be saved.

The 3cs re alcoholism are ones you would do well to now remember:-
You did not cause this
You cannot control this
You cannot cure this

You have a choice re him; your children do not. Do they really need a drunkard for a father?. No they do not.

peasandlove

Getting used to it is something that you should never do. You are indeed worth so much more than wasting your life (along with any children who are also seeing all this at home to boot) on a drunkard.

Such men have to want to seek help for their own selves and of their own volition.

Al Anon is for you, the family of drinkers, where you can talk to others in the same position.

AA is for him if he wants it.

Or that's how it used to be, correct me if I'm wrong.

Previous posters have said it all already, but just wanted to add that I left my now ex husband because alcohol won, and I finally realised that there was not a thing I could do about it. I went to al-anon for a while and hearing the stories of woken 20+ years older than me who were still going through what I was going through was sufficient to make me wake up and start living my own life.
Also, him drunk telling at me, made me question whether this was something I wanted my two children to see as normality as they got older.
I had the realisation that I would never forgive myself if my daughter ended up in a similar relationship when she grew up, because I had stayed and normalised it for her.
Accepting he won't change until he's ready is the first step. The next step is simply "What do YOU want from YOUR life, knowing he won't change for you?"

What on earth are you expecting to happen? You've lived it over and over again, he's a horrible drunk yet he still gets drunk = he doesn't care that he's horrible to you. He doesn't care. Drinking is more important than you, than your marriage, than your children. That's because he's an alcoholic. You cannot persuade him into being not an alcoholic. You are having another baby with him - congratulations, but the best thing you can do for you and your baby is be a single parent when he/she is born.

This guy is not going to change. Of course he's blaming you, it's classic deflection. Please go to alanon and realise that he's following a script and so are you. And it only has one ending.

aaargh typos!
women 20+ years
him drunk yelling at me

congratulations on your shock news.

On the downside ... I'm sorry but until and unless your husband curbs his drinking your family of 3-and-a-bump are always going to have a problem.

But in short: No you are not being unreasonable.

you were reasonable to ask that he stays sober, you were reasonable to be upset, and im sorry but you are reasonable to have strong doubts about the marriage.

Your husband was not reasonable to go out and break his promise. Nor is his drinking reasonable.

You can't change him. Only he can. Sorry but you'll have to decide what you want in the future, this broken hungover reed to rely on, or to be reliant on yourself whether you are with him or not.

You're underreacting. You've underreacted for a long time and that's why you are where you are. You're now so conditioned to behaviour that others would say was intolerable that you're asking 'am I overreacting?' You keep hoping he's going to see the light, get some help, etc.

They never do.