End of my tether

[Foolishlady]

Ok I generally wouldn't post here cos (no offence ladies and I don't want to put everyone's back up before I start) I sometimes think the boards' sa but quick to recommend breaking up when children are involved - but I'm getting unhappier in my relationship and I don't know what to do. My dh is a good man but he's horrendous with money. We're about to get a house and found out yesterday that we may be refused a mortgage because he has let one of his loans go into serious default. I was printing out our joint savings account this morning and saw that despite jointly saving 800e a month we have less money than last year as he is constantly taking money out. He has more outgoings than me but he is really not on a bad salary at all. I just can't face constantly bailing him out, never being able to trust him with money..,this has been constant since we got married. I work hard and have been lucky enough for my parents to have given some money towards our deposit but some of this is going to be used to pay his debts - and this will never stop. I am maybe too far on the other side in terms of frugality, are we destined to be unhappy? But we have a lovely 21 month old who loves seeing his parents together. Relationship not amazing other than this, we still have a laugh together, but have v different family background and political views, and have had sex less than 10 times in 2.5 years. Some of this is him but recently I've just stopped fancying him. What do I do?

Anyone any advice? I've pissed you all off too myh with my opening line maybe. But I'm so depressed

I would not want to continue in such a marriage. He being as you describe horrendous with money is a huge problem and you have enabled him and this situation to continue by bailing him out and more than once. You will both repeat your parts in this same scenario over and over if you choose to stay within this.

What do you want to teach your child about relationships here?. You want to show him that a marriage riven with his dad's indebtedness is the norm, this is how people actually behave in marriage?. His spendthrift way is killing any love you have left for him, you want to show your child that a loveless marriage is also the norm?.

Your 21 month old now would much rather have and see his parents apart and happier than to be together and miserable as you are now.

This relationship is not working for you in any way. It's been going on for long enough that you must know that isn't going to change. When one part of the couple is taking and squandering your resources as a family then there is nothing left to save. You are essentially working for him to do whatever the hell he likes. You KNOW what you have to do.

The only positive you painted was "we sometime still have a laugh" and "he is a good man" in every other respect you sound unhappy. He sounds at best, like a friend.

If you want to consider keeping the relationship going you will both need to put some work in - does he know the extent of your unhappiness? Is he also unhappy? There are ways to turn your finances around if he really wanted to change (joint saving become an account in your name so he can't make withdrawals for example) and backgrounds don't have to matter in a marriage. It depends if you both feel its worth saving though. And i mean for yourselves, not for your child.

What do you do? You carry on worrying and being unhappy.

Because that's your only option if you're not willing to leave.

Sorry to be so blunt, but if you enter into the whole thing saying "I'm not going to leave," then you have no way out. He can treat you whatever way he likes, spend as much money as he likes, and he knows you will just stick around and take it. Great for him, shit for you.

I'm not saying leave, definitely, right now. What I'm saying is, you need to be prepared to set boundaries on the relationship and to leave if he steps over those boundaries. If you're just going to stay anyway then nothing you say will make any difference.

I think it is worth saving, but to be honest mostly for our child. I know there is no point being unhappy together as that just damages children but honestly believe a solid reasonably happy relationship between his parents is one of the best gifts he could have - I have a dsd and can definitely see that her life would be better if her parents were together (well apart from the fact they would kill each other but if that were not the case). He is not unhappy, thinks we have a great relationship (!) and only knows I'm unhappy because I've become more strident about my feelings over the last few weeks (I've a tendency to bottle up emotions). He was so contrite yesterday about the loan, today was just the last straw. He says the savings withdrawals were for family costs - maybe they were but we could have covered those from our current accounts. We're about to buy a house fgs, we really need that money

My family were getting a bit worried cos they could see we were like ships passing in the night recently, not spending any time together. I can't tell them about the loan default....

But Foolishlady you are not even reasonably happy and this relationship is really built on sand. There are other problems present here quite apart from his indebtedness.

Your dsd is likely glad that her parents are no longer together because they would destroy each other if they were.

Of course this man is not unhappy; he gets what he wants and without the worry to boot - that worry is all yours for you to carry. Such men do not fundamentally change.

He can say sorry as much as he likes but the fundamentals here have not changed; he is still living well beyond his means and the debt amount is still climbing.

You cannot burden a child with a choice that you made; that child say thanks mum for remaining within something like this if you were to choose to. He/she will likely wonder of you why you continually put this man before he/her.

"I can't tell them about the loan default...."

But keeping that secret helps no-one, least of all you because you're still carrying the can for his indebtedness.

Why can't you tell them; will they say, "told you so" or something of that nature?.

Of course he thinks you have a great relationship, he just does as he pleases and he knows you'll suck it up.

How about you take charge of all the money? If he is really as contrite as he says then he can have no objection.
Is your DH concealing his spending from you? If so is he frightened of you?

If this is the case then it definitely needs sorting out by discussion and listening to one another.
Spending is a weakness for your DH , so just take away the temptation.
I know I will get slated for this as you are not his Mother and having to do this smacks of being his Mother.
The situation with your marriage is a different dilemma. You say it is worth saving which is a positive. You say he feels the same so now you need to inject some life into it.
This involves strategies. Such as, making time for yourselves. Looking at fun things you can do together. Definitely rekindling your sex life. Sex is fun and free. And talking about the needs of each other.
Have you got a babysitter?
It is worth investing time and money in your marriage, as the alternative has consequences.
Do some planning and reading, get counselling and do a mindfulness course. Think positive thoughts, instead of looking for blame and negativity look for answers.
Best of luck.

so he's been taking money out of your savings without telling you, he's defaulted on a loan without telling you and let you get to the embarassment of being refused a mortgage rather than just TELL you and you describe showing your feelings as being 'strident'?

things to think about.

My son is completely and utterly a daddy's boy, so if anything I think he will always take his daddy's side over mine! He is in fairness a v warm man. You can see my dh favours his father (much as he denies it) despite his father being 10 times more irresponsible than my dh, and making my mil's life a misery. They still live in the same house, miserably. My fil is completely broke & the reason why my dh has the loan in the first place.
I would like to make the relationship work for me too. I would love a solid happy relationship with the father of my child. The alternative if being a lonely late 30s divorcee in a country where that is not as common as the uk isn't v appealing either. But I know there are some major problems with this relationship, I just don't know if they're fixable/tolerable.

Would he go to counselling with you?

You say that you bottle up your feelings and that makes me wonder if he is aware of how you feel about things. At the very least I think you need a calm and constructive way to talk about what has been getting you down.

If neither of you can talk about how you really feel, the relationship will feel strained because you won't have emotional intimacy.

I think you can save your marriage but only if you are both prepared to make changes and do the work.

I wish you all the best.

"You can see my dh favours his father (much as he denies it) despite his father being 10 times more irresponsible than my dh, and making my mil's life a misery. They still live in the same house, miserably"

Like father like son now. History is basically repeating itself here with him playing his dad and you now in your MILs role. Is that what you really want for yourself going forward?. Look at what your DH learnt about relationships when growing up, those same lessons are being shown in your own relationship with him now. Its not working out

Your son can and is indeed still entitled to a relationship with his dad if you were to separate.

You cannot make what is basically a relationship with multiple problems work on your own. He has to want to do his bit to work on this. I see no indication from your postings today that he actually does want to address any issues at all.

And your life sounds pretty much intolerable now. Who is going to judge you if you became a divorcee even in a country where divorce is not so openly done?. Those people are not worth knowing if you were so judged. Your life seems lonely now as well.

"My son is completely and utterly a daddy's boy, so if anything I think he will always take his daddy's side over mine!"

Why do you think that?.

He is currently 21 months old; I doubt very much that he will take sides. What is far more important here is the relationship model you both show to him.

Thing is though, lady, you simply cannot make a relationship work on your own. A relationship involves two people, both contributing, both holding up their side of the partnership.

If your DH sees no problem, then how can it be fixed?

The only way to solve it is for him to come on board, properly, and sort the problems out with you.

Will he do that?

You're saving 800€ a month and you have less than last year? I'd be more concerned about where the money was going.

How can we support you? You seem to have it thought out.

You know it's not the solution we would advise, but you do have your solution. Your relationships's a sham, your parents are worried about it, you're unhappy but it works for you because you want your son gets to see you both as role models and it works for your husband 'cos he's getting financially bailed out by your parents and is content.

Thank you. Maybe we need counselling. Some drip feeding which might make him look less bad:
The reason why he defaults on the loan is cos he still believes his dad will clear it, he needs to believe his dad won't let him pay it all (his dad could liquidate an asset to do so but doesn't think the price he would get is enough so chooses to leech off other people and let his son pay the loan in the meantime) - my dh is so crap with money he didn't realise non payment could affect mortgage suitability
I had a really ferocious crush this year that I thought was to blame for distracting from my marriage, I have changed jobs so no longer see this man but things haven't improved, indeed they're coming to a head, so I'm thinking it was a symptom rather than a cause

Sorry cross post with all the later posts! Will respond shortly

Sit down with him and tell him all of this. See what he says. You may need counselling, no actually, you definitely need counselling.
I'm not going to say LTB as you say he is a good man, but you do need to give him a heads up on what you are feeling now rather than letting it fester until he does one silly thing and you then say you've had enough. That wouldn't be fair on him.

Being like his parents trapped in an unhappy marriage which neither will leave is my biggest feat

Fear

Actually what you've written makes your DH look even worse. He reads even more like a kidult or manchild.

His dad is even more financially irresponsible than his son so why on earth would he think his dad would ever be able to bail him out?. Also your DH has you to do that for him!.

Not at all surprised you had a crush in such circumstances; that man represented stability as well as an escape from the horrid mess of a relationship you have behind closed doors.