End of my tether

[Foolishlady]

Ok I generally wouldn't post here cos (no offence ladies and I don't want to put everyone's back up before I start) I sometimes think the boards' sa but quick to recommend breaking up when children are involved - but I'm getting unhappier in my relationship and I don't know what to do. My dh is a good man but he's horrendous with money. We're about to get a house and found out yesterday that we may be refused a mortgage because he has let one of his loans go into serious default. I was printing out our joint savings account this morning and saw that despite jointly saving 800e a month we have less money than last year as he is constantly taking money out. He has more outgoings than me but he is really not on a bad salary at all. I just can't face constantly bailing him out, never being able to trust him with money..,this has been constant since we got married. I work hard and have been lucky enough for my parents to have given some money towards our deposit but some of this is going to be used to pay his debts - and this will never stop. I am maybe too far on the other side in terms of frugality, are we destined to be unhappy? But we have a lovely 21 month old who loves seeing his parents together. Relationship not amazing other than this, we still have a laugh together, but have v different family background and political views, and have had sex less than 10 times in 2.5 years. Some of this is him but recently I've just stopped fancying him. What do I do?

"Being like his parents trapped in an unhappy marriage which neither will leave is my biggest fear"

That fear of yours is currently being played out; neither of you have actually made moves to leave the other. You have stayed within this to date for your own reasons; staying for the sake of the child rarely if ever is a good idea.

Your H likely won't want to leave because he has you cushioning all of life's blows from him. He's happy and does not fundamentally care that you are not.

The loan was his father's - dh was meant to be the guarantor - well, so he said but I think the loan was put in his name from the start as his dad has no income ( dh not stupid but completely financially illiterate so mightn't have appreciated the difference). Hence why he keeps on hoping his dad will pay it off

Presumably all this was done at the time without your knowledge.

His dad was totally reckless, greedy and selfish to get his son to apply for a loan in the first place (his dad had no income so how does your DH expect his dad to pay it off?. This one asset of his dad's will likely never be sold and could end up being sold at a loss anyway).

You need to consider your own future very carefully within this because this type of stuff will likely keep on happening.

Just coming on here to say please do not stay together for the sake of your child- it's very unfair to put that on him. My mum stayed with my alcoholic father for us- I had a horrendous childhood and I hate my mum for that for being too scared and using us children as an excuse.

If you default on a mortgage you and your child could lose your home. Do not tie yourself any more financially to this man. Given that it's learned behaviour, he has got to want to change. I do think you need to find out what he has been spending all the money on too- that would worry me.!

Can you cope with the stress of being totally financially responsible? Can you trust him to not take out further secret loans?

I think personally you should ltb, but I know that is a huge scary step. We'll be behind you though op if you do x

Loan was taken out in the face of my strenuous objections - the asset at the time would have paid the loan many many times over but was already losing value but neither would listen to me at the time.
The first year of our marriage was v bad, with him raising our savings secretly, keeping wedding gifts etc secret. He has improved since then, has taken a better paid much less rewarding job for the sake of our family, but this recent stuff has outlined how I fundamentally just can't trust him with money. Our approaches to money are just so different - I actually thought I would be the issue for the mortgage cos of new job, probation period, but my bank approved the loan immediately at preferential rates because of my history with them - only for this to arise at credit checking stage!

Raiding savings, not raising them!

But you want to maintain your relationship with him, so what you do is suck it up and stay miserable inside.

OP I can tell you now that if yous have got default payments on your credit file then you will almost certainly struggle to get a mortgage with a mainstream lender.

You will have to go to a specialist mortgage lender who deals with people who have credit problems. The downside to that is the rate at which you repay your mortgage back will be higher than what is available on the high street.

I think it's a good idea if you try to take sole charge of the finances. Dipping into the savings without telling you is quite a big thing IMO.

We're still waiting to hear if it's on the official credit check register. If it is, I agree it may be game over. Especially for the preferential rate I was offered. He just doesn't get that dipping into the savings for bills that should be coming out of our current accounts is not a good thing.

Of course he gets it, he just doesn't give a shit.

The only other scenario I can think of is that he has learning difficulties.

Have you told your parents that some of the deposit money they are giving you, will be paying off this feckless idiot's debts?

If you haven't then your DH is turning you into a liar and a thief too.

of course he gets it, and unless you are telling us he is very stupid he knows the difference between taking out a loan in his own name and being a guarantor. you are infantilising him and making excuses rather than face the truth.

and there's no way he'd pay household bills out of the savings if there was money in the current account - unless he has something to hide he'd use the current account.

i agree you need to find out what all this money is spent on.

and do you mean that there were wedding gifts he didn't tell you about and kept for himself???

Yes, people gave us mostly cash, I put it all in joint savings account. Majority from my friends and family. He received cash gifts and kept it for his own use. Only found out months later.
The money is mostly frittered, bottles of wine, drink, take away coffees etc. he's just a spender. I don't know how much he can change.
I so wish he was different with money.

You can wish all you want but the fact remains that he is a spendthrift like his father is.

Your DH kept cash gifts for his own use which you only found out about months later?. How did you feel then?.

Do you actually have any idea as to how much he owes now?.

He learnt a rubbish example of money management from his father in particular (his mother has enabled this to continue as well); he (and for that matter she) is not going to change. His Dad's patterns of behaviour when it comes to money has never altered has it?.

Your H will likely bankrupt you in the end or at the very least wreak your own chances of getting credit.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

Apparently the update on the loan is that the arrears haven't been officially registered. My bank shouldn't become aware of it and the lady in the bank that is aware of it is trying really hard to get the mortgage through (she knows him through work & he is a v likeable man).
Still doesn't resolve the underlying issues though.

he stole wedding gifts ffs. how will you feel when he's nicking your son's birthday money from his relatives?

it's just the same.

I know how much he owes but only because of the mortgage applications.

make sure you get a mortgage without a cash withdrawal option or you'll be screwed there. i had a mortgage reserve account attached to my mortgage where i could draw down cash and pay it off at the same rate as my mortgage. avoid that at least if you must get into more financial entanglement with him.

I have to admit to being shocked at the wedding gift thing. How DARE he? The loan for an idiot father i can believe as my own DH has bailed out his useless with money father many a time too, but DH is v sensible with money so its not an issue.

I hate to say it, but with your thoughts about long term plans for the relationship do you really want a mortgage with this man? Should you wait until you have decided on way or the other about how you will proceed together or apart before entering into a 25/30 year financial commitment?

I know what you mean about entering into a mortgage. I would like more time but prices are going through the roof here and have increased even since we went sale agreed. So loath to let the house go - although I think we're overstretching now especially with this new info on arrears and depleted savings!

I stand to lose A LOT of money if this goes tits up as am putting a fortune into the house from my own and mum's money.

then please, please don't do it!

a) don't overstretch yourself with someone this irresponsible and b) don't plough more in of yours and your mother's money to an investment with an unreliable partner. if this was business you'd run a mile - in fact it's bigger than business - it's your, and your child's, life security.

I think financial compatibility is one of the key factors in overall compatibility in a relationship.

It's certainly one of the top 5 issues that comes up in relationship counselling and causes crises in relationships.

Personally, I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who was feckless like your husband.

But if you want to stay in it, I would insist he hands over control of finances to you at least for the time being. He gets an allowance and he has to write done everything that he spends. He prints out all his debit and credit card statements so you can both see precisely where the money had gone. This will confront him with how much money he fritters away, and he may well be shocked when he sees it all totted up in front of him. It's a bit like confronting a compulsive eater with all the food they consume in week. He does sound like he's a compulsive spender.

It's not a fun way to live, there's no doubt about that, but the alternative is far worse. And if he doesn't like being treated as a child, he can step up and stop behaving like one.

Down not done^

You really need to take 100% control of the finances.

How come you know so little of your husband,s less than useless financial dealings when it affects you and DS?
Is it a cultural thing? (You say you don, t live in UK). In many countries the husband controls the purse strings...

I would be furious if my husband frittered away money given by my parents FOR A DEPOSIT!
You, re not doing you or your son any favours for your future.
My parents would be horrified too, angry and worried.

How come you know so little about presents he has appropiated and found out later.
Like pp said, he, s a liar and a thief.

I wouldn, t waste my life on someone like that. And I, ve been a single mum for over 20 years, and he turned out fine! In fact a lot better than if his dad had been around...

Anyway, wishing you all the best and a way out of the fog.