contact with children after domestic abuse

[turbonerd]

Hoping for some practical advice here. We have 3 children, have lived apart since he got arrested last winter. Since Sept last year the children and I moved to my homecountry in Scandinavia. Now he wants to move here. He has visited and we have spent time together so that he could be with the children. Despite me telling him in no uncertain terms that this was for the Benefit of the children, no reconciliation possible, in fact I have a new partner etc, he still hinted to us getting back together. I Said no, and it looks like he has understood. Should I welcome him moving close to be with the children? The two oldest miss him desperately.

What has he done since being arrested to address his violent behaviour? What would be the arrangements for contact?

If you were still in the UK and thinking of reintroducing a known violent offender to your children in any way other than fully supervised access, Social Services would take a very dim view.

If he wants to move, he will. As long as it's for the children then I honestly don't think there's much you can do about it. Except act with grace.

(I am assuming he was not abusive toward the children?)

Is he definitely moving to your country or is this a stunt of his basically designed to frighten you?.

No you should not welcome him moving closer to be with the children!. He wants to keep an eye on you instead particularly now you are with someone else. He will not and has not taken your no for an answer, you may well now have to use the authorities to get him off your back.

These children are not his main concern at all and I doubt that he actually misses them very much. He was never a good dad to them if he treated you so appallingly.

Such men do not change and they also do not let go of their victims easily; he could well use his move to further punish you for having the guts to leave him.

Do contact your country's equivalent of Womens Aid which is a domestic violence charity for further help. I would also suggest you read a copy of "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft. This is all about power and control; he still wants that over you.

"(I am assuming he was not abusive toward the children?)"

I don't understand this.

Living with abuse towards the mother, IS ABUSING THE CHILDREN!

Too many people still don't understand this. Abusive behaviour is like a bad smell...it gets everywhere. And can lurk for years infecting everything.

I've been in contact with every agency in this country, there will be an agreement made by me that he will have to sign regarding the contact.
It was an ongoing mess which ended with strangling that had escalated for å year. He refuses that he ever tried to hurt me, despite pushing about, long interrogations that he filmed, and some sexual abuse thrown in for good measure. I have realised he is a master manipulator, but the children miss him so much. Despite him being really nasty to all especially when drinking.
I still feel guilty for him getting arrested. Have read Bancroft and the Freedom programme, and had the police shocked at what he did. I still feel fucking guilty.

How old are your children?.

You are the parent. You're older and therefore more experienced which is the point of being the parent. The child is dependent on your good sense and protective wisdom. You're smarter than your child; use that to your advantage (such as using the distraction method). You are the final authority. This is not a negotiable issue. Kidlet doesn't get to decide on this one because they lack the understanding, wisdom, experience and good sense that, hopefully, you have. So don't look like you're unsure or open to quibble.

Are you certain that the children miss him so much or is that your own perception?. What benefit would they gain from actually seeing him at all?. After all he thought nothing of hurting you, their mother. He would still manipulate them as much as he has manipulated you.

I would not let this man within 1000 miles of you and your children now to be honest with you, you've all suffered more than enough already. You got away from this evil man; time to put a lot more emotional distance now between you and he as well. Like all abusers as well he has not changed and has also not accepted any responsibility for his actions.

I doubt also that he would actually honour any contract or agreement drawn up; such entitled men think they can fool the authorities as well.

love, he couldn't give a shit about the kids. he's using them to get to you.

tell him not to move, and that you will never, ever, EVER bbe back with him.

see what he's like then.

you have to stop the kids idolising him. do they know why you left him? if not, tell them. age appropriately of course.

contact is for the benefit of the children, contact with a man that is abusive isn't going to be beneficial.

There is NO WAY he should be having unsupervised contact with the children, and also no way you should be having any physical contact with him either. Strangulation is one of the red flags that indicate a high risk for homicide . Sorry to be blunt.

Concerned is right.

If you were in the UK he would be unable to have contact with the children except through a supervised contact centre and even then you would have very good grounds for no contact at all. You could probably take out an order which means you do not have to see him at all (harassment / restraining).

However, I have no idea how abusive situations work where you are.

Please do not let him back into your lives. Move again if necessary. He sounds very dangerous.

croSs post.

move again, change your name/schools etc and never allow him access to you/the children ever again.

tell them the truth, it will protect them.

He tried to strangle you? The police were shocked at his behaviour?

No. No. No. No. No.

"the children miss him desperately". Are you quite sure? But even if they are, I'm afraid that placing them in the hands of a master manipulator is akin to going along with the abuse.

Do you still have some sort of respect for this man? From what you've said, it sounds as if you should be travelling to the ends of the earth away from him. I'm afraid I cannot believe that someone who manipulates and physically and sexually abuses women is a good role model.

Depending on age, I would also tell the children in a neutral fashion an age-appropriate versoin of why you split up "Daddy behaved very badly towards Mama and wasn't willing to change. When that happens the only thing you can do is to walk away".

Strangulation is very, very serious, turbonerd - one of the indicators of severe danger. I don't think you should be letting this man near your children at all. Please don't tell me he's actually staying in your house.

I grew up in a situation similar but don't want to say too much, just, don't let him back into your children's lives. Trust me just don't, he won't have changed, he will make your life hell and will use them to manipulate you. He will eventually treat them the same way he treated you. Stay very very far away from him.

They know what happened, they were there. 8 and 11 now, the youngest who is 3 1/2 has developmental delay, possibly autistic, so does not connect this man to any notion of a daddy.
I was with him for 12 years, and he spent much time trying to talk his sense into me, it felt like years of banging my head against a brick wall. Very sly too, forced painful sex over long period by making out that it would help him for his mental health; I was selfish and not loving my children if I did not do it, because not doing it would cause the breakup of our family. Just to give an idea of how he works.
He hurt the children too in many ways, by drinking, being aggressive and unpredictable, telling them off in nasty ways. He strangled me on the top of the stairs whilst I was carrying the youngest. I was so downtrodden I still did not call the police, my sister did. His family was aghast that the police were involved and pressured me to "stop the campaign to put him in prison". Luckily I had the support of my own family.
No, perhaps him moving here would be crap.

Understatement of the year.

No bloody 'perhaps' about it. No no NO! He sounds vile and dangerous.

I'm worried about your thought patterns here.

It comes over that you feel sorry for him. Why? If your dd came to you as an adult and told you this as if it happened to her what would you say?

He has been manipulating you for years and he's still doing it now. You are in a good place now to be able to stop that and move forward but you have to completely cut all ties with him.

The eldest children miss him because he is their dad and being children they do not have a full understanding of the situation. But that doesn't mean they should see him. He is an abuser and violent. As they get older and begin their own relationships they will look to you to see what is acceptable. Don't let them see being strangled as acceptable and forgivable. It is not. Show them how you treat people that hurt you.

You've been through so much. Be good to yourself and protect yourself and your family.
The actions you describe are not the actions of a man who loves his children. He is a dangerous nasty man. What makes you think he will be nice to or good for your children? They're even smaller and less powerful than you, and what's more they're be the most important things in the world to you. He'll see them as a way to get to you.
You've done a brilliant thing in getting away from him and back to your home country. Keep that distance if at all possible.

My thoughtpatterns are a mess. I know the theory, and still sometimes feel sorry for him. Less than before, and sometimes I do get angry.
Thanks for taking time to talk through this with me. I have to put the kids to bed, but will check later. It helps to read the replies to keep my strength.

I just wanted to echo what others have said - this man is dangerous and has been abusive to all of you. Please do all you can to protect yourself and your DC from him, you have no moral obligation to keep contact going - IMO he threw away any rights he had as a father when he tried to strangle the mother of his children .

On another point, fairylea my experiences of the law in the uk is very different to yours - the law is a joke IMO - police and social services will encourage a woman to leave an abusive man and will promise all sorts of support. But then when she finds the strength to leave him, she is faced with a legal system that gives the abuser automatic rights to contact with the children she was trying to protect from him by leaving . Yes there is 'supervised' contact, but in practice that often means a village hall or the like with contact being 'supervised' by volunteers who have no authority or ability to make sure the environment is completely safe, for the mother and the children.

Protect your children.
Protect yourself.
Do not let this vile man move anywhere near you.

Think of the example you are setting your children. If you let him anyway near you, you are telling them that it is normal and ok to abuse people. Do you want their relationships to mirror yours?

Penguin that's really sad that your experience has been that way. Perhaps it is a postcode lottery. I'm not sure. I can only speak from my own experience and that of my experience of volunteering with womens aid and I have found the systems to work very well. However one of the main things that tends to help reinforce the systems is to ensure that all incidents and threats are recorded immediately and as they happen. Then there is a file and solid record to back up the case for a court / solicitor to use. I can totally understand why many women feel too scared and vulnerable to come forward in many circumstances but it really does help to build a case to protect people in the long run.

I think services are getting better, bit by bit, but there will be patches of less than satisfactory.

the situation about the legal system failing to support families fleeing violence still needs improvement as I understand it. abusive men need to lose the right to access to families.

turbonerd PLEASE end all contact with this man. he tried to kill you. he would try again. men like him kill the kids to hurt their mothers, you know this,right?

Thanks fairylea, and I'm sorry if I sounded a bit snotty, I didn't mean to . This subject is very close to my heart, although I'm lucky that it's all in the past now.

Anyway, op really sorry to hijack the thread. The important thing is that you continue to protect yourself and your dc from this dangerous man. And I do believe a big part of that is to rethink the belief you seem to have that your children need to keep seeing their father. I believe that no father at all is far preferable to an abusive one, and he is an abusive father.

I wonder if your DC have a form of Stockholm Syndrome.

It's not unusual in children of abusive parents. And from what you say, he certainly was emotionally abusive towards them directly, as well as witnessing DV towards you being a form of abuse in itself.

One of the ways children survive and cope is by convincing themselves that this person/behaviour actually makes them happy, that this is what love feels like. Also known as adaptive preferences. What other choice did they have? What other knowledge did they have? Children have to deny their fear and distress even to themselves when there is nowhere to go with those feelings, and then that denial becomes a habit that can continue even after the threat is gone.

Just saying this in regard to their missing him so much. Doesn't mean it was/is a healthy relationship. Definitely not the relationship template you want them to grow up with. But they do need some support with it all - can you maybe get some counselling for them to help them deal with all this?

Agree with everyone else. Sounds like a terrible idea for him to move there, please don't encourage it in any way. And be extremely wary of him. As you yourself say, he is a master manipulator and you were in his thrall for many years, he knows how to get to you.

Well done for getting away. That took a lot of strength.

I also wondered about the Stockholm syndrome Talking, especially for the middle one. He is in a state, says his brain broke the day daddy went away. He is very insecure and gets aggressive and violent. Then he is sad and says he's an idiot nobody can love etc. Sorry if this is called drip feeding. He is referred to counselling, because also he says daddy hurt me. Once when I told him off ( Yes, there was shouting, I felt awful) he got into hysterics saying people who shout will kill him. We talked about it and the examples are from his dad shouting at me and then attacking. It is heartbreaking. I have been so busy with this thought that I should not deprive the children of their dad.