contact with children after domestic abuse

[turbonerd]

Hoping for some practical advice here. We have 3 children, have lived apart since he got arrested last winter. Since Sept last year the children and I moved to my homecountry in Scandinavia. Now he wants to move here. He has visited and we have spent time together so that he could be with the children. Despite me telling him in no uncertain terms that this was for the Benefit of the children, no reconciliation possible, in fact I have a new partner etc, he still hinted to us getting back together. I Said no, and it looks like he has understood. Should I welcome him moving close to be with the children? The two oldest miss him desperately.

I appreciate that this is really, really hard for you. But... this man HAS abused your children. He strangled the most important person in their world in front of them - you were holding a baby in your arms at the time. He raped you, he manipulated you. Now, he's trying to again. It's control of course, and you know that. But the thing is, you are all that stands between your children being abused. You are the sole protection they have. You keep him away from them, and you are doing your job.

One of the reasons they probably miss him etc is because you protect them from his true horror, and also, by yourself normalising and rationalising, you are teaching them that's the truth. The truth is that he is dangerous, and when he works out you won't come back, he may join the ranks of men who harm the kids to punish the woman.

You've been through hell, and you are now safe. Your children are safe. Why in the world would you risk jeopardising that, you know?

I send so much sympathy. He's done a really effective number on you... and you should be so, so proud that you escaped. It has to have been almost impossibly hard, but achieve it you did. Please, stay safe, and free. Ensure your kids have an adolescence they can look back on with happiness.

Very good post from perfectstorm

Please listen to what your ds is saying to you. He needs to see his father under absolutely controlled and supervised conditions. You know his father is manipulative, agressive, violent and controlling. Do you think these character traits magically disappear when he is around his children? Your ds is already damaged by what he has seen and heard and now needs your entire focus on helping him to understand that what happened was not normal, acceptable or even legal. He needs to see that there are consequences for behaving like that. And yes, you are right, he desperately needs some urgent counselling.

You have been so very, very strong in getting away from this man. Do not let him back into your life. You have a perfect opportunity to keep him away from you and your children. Use it.

He is very insecure and gets aggressive and violent.

^ that's what the abuse has doen to him. shown him that violence and aggression are a method to resolve things.

this is why you have to keep his dad away, and explain gently why. get counselling and reassure him every day that his dad's choice to abuse you all means nothing about how lovable any of you are.

ask him if he knows how much YOU love him? tell him every day, show him every day. show him that his sibling loves him, and that he loves his sibling and you.

explain too that this is a truly difficult thing to deal with, even for an adult, but he's going to get through this, and it will now be better and more hope filled a future than it would have been.

tell him too that when a daddy treats a mummy and her babies like this, that she has to get them away from the situation so that they can be happy and safe.

it's a struggle in the beginning (and these still are very early days) but he will be ok.

tell him he can talk to you about his feelings at any time, and you'll hear him, talk to him and try to help. if you do,t have the answer, you'll find someone who does.

keep talking, you can pull this around. main thing is to stay calm wherever possible, and to repeat the message not to use angry words or violence to resolve issues.

this is the beginning of your journeys to recovery. your ex needs to stay away, and leave you alone. if he won't, you have to take that choice away from him.

it may be that in time you can forge a working relationship, but a LOT of healing on your part has to happen, a great deal of stregth needs to be gained, and he needs to understand what his violence has cost him. only then he may look at his actions with a degree of guilt.

my ex is in a different country. he's not seen either of us in nearly 5 years. I ignored all attempts to contact me for a while, then when I did speak to him raged and ranted for a while (it's safe when you're on different continents!) we've had ok conversations, and good conversations. he's still tried to 'get me back' (I actually laughed!) and has tried to emotionally blackmail me.

I did therapy 1-1, I did group therapy and the freedom programme. at one point all together, it was exhausting. but i'm stronger now than i've ever been.

you can do this too, it's a lot of work, but so worth it!

Yes, I have normalised much of his behaviour. He is a talker and spent hours and hours talking to make his lunatic logic be the right one. He still does through emails, and texts. Says things like he loved me so much he could never have hurt me, that he is sorry but it was because he was drunk, that he did not strangle me he was just trying to stop me walking away from the conversation, that he is traumatised by the arrests, that now he has gotten over it and so should I and he does not want these mistakes thrown back into his face anymore. He "opened a dialogue" about what had happened, and when it did not go according to plan, ie I did not forgive or forget, he was hurt and mildly annoyed and called me little miss victim. This was after asking if perhaps I now felt I was losing control over my life.
It helps to write it down, something here is not right at all. He sounds a bit deranged, actually. I will say to him there is nothing for him here.
I have to add that the police were very supportive and helpful to me. Ex tried to turn that around too by saying that his probation officer and solicitor had told him that "everybody" knew that the police officer dealing with my case was a pervert. Ex knew I had told them about the sexual abuse because he was questioned as they wanted to charge him with rape.
It has been swirling about in my head for å while all this.

Please, please do not encourage this man to come to your country. It seems like your children have been badly damaged by him already. Can you imagine your son being just like his father when h is older? Treating his wife the same way you were treat. No. No. Get your son into therapy so he can talk and understand his fathers behaviour was very very wrong.

I hope that your future relationships will demonstrate what a normal, loving relationship should be like. That way he will learn the difference between good and bad.

I feel as though he is managing to worm his way back into your head. Please don't let him, it sounds like he has convinced himself that his abuse is normal, ok, justified. Unfortunately it is likely hat he grew up with this sort of abuse and now he is playing it out on all of you.

Stay strong, he is not a good person and he is way off being one whilst he is still saying his behaviour was justified.

Move on and forget him. He will not bring a positive contribution to the lives of your children. I just can't see it.

He still does through emails and texts'

I'm very surprised that you still have any contact with this horrible man, after all he put you and your DC through.
Please stop all contact, because every time you communicate with him you give him further opportunities to mess up your head.
Have you seen the (sadly) many recent horrifying cases of men murdering their children in malice and anger to cause the maximum pain to their EW?
This man sounds as if he could be capable of anything. Please please don't allow him any contact with the children. They will gradually adjust to his absence in their lives, but they won't heal if he is sniffing around.

I feel so sad for you, it must have been a horrific nightmare for all of you. I wish you a peaceful and happy future.

Your son is clearly traumatised by what he witnessed, and I'm not convinced that it was daddy going away that 'broke' his brain, but what he experienced. He needs a long peaceful time and therapy to get over it, no more ructions.

In order for you, your son and your other children to heal they need never to be exposed to this abuse again. You cannot guarantee that your ex will not continue in his aggression and violence so your children must be protected.

As other posters have said I'm not convinced this is about the children, I think he wants to keep control of you and an eye on what you're up to.

You need to stop contact with him completely, it's fuelling the addiction on both sides. And he sounds unbalanced.

He is in a state, says his brain broke the day daddy went away. He is very insecure and gets aggressive and violent. Then he is sad and says he's an idiot nobody can love etc. ..he got into hysterics saying people who shout will kill him.

I think you need to get professional help for your son, not only counselling but behaviour therapy. Quickly. He's not as young as all that, he's been through hell and he's got a role model that was appalling. He's showing the effects and he's coming into teenage years where he'll have all the hormones adding to the problem.

He's in prime territory to get into serious trouble and he already knows that if you strangle and attack a woman then you can keep on talking to her afterwards.

This is delicate and maybe I'm mistaken here, but I'll stick my head out. Given the amount of hell you've been through and the huge toll that separating and getting away and moving back must have taken of you (and you're still far from mentally free of him), I think you should ask for support for yourself mentally and also parenting help.

I think you need some serious help here quickly to help avert disaster in the future.

You also need to break all contact with your ex because it's not helping anything. Certainly not you and certainly not your children.

Yes, it is a very scary prospect that my lovely boy should end up like his dad.
The contact used to be supervised by my Brother, but he got ill. I then started supervising, which is an oxymoron given what has happened. My mum came, but ex was so moody I thought it was bothering the boys. Only just now twigged that it got him my mum out of the way. Oh fuck.
The kids have Skype contact onge a week, plus he sends them emails. Oh double fuck, he has crept way back in, I can see it now. I have to start disentangling again.
The good thing is my children have a much happier and safer life here now. My parents and siblings are around to help protect them too, which is good the way I falter at every hurdle.

Oh Turbonerd what you and your DC are going through is heartbreaking. I agree that your DS needs some expert help with this, along with your protection from further trauma in the form of further contact with your ex.
Your head must be full of this too. This man has abused you badly. I can only imagine the strength it took to get away, and so far away.
So he's a talker? That's his weapon now. Please keep him out of your head. Don't talk to him. Keep all communication to email, and limit that to essential matters regarding the children. Can you get someone you trust to 'filter' communication from him? Eg your new partner? Your ex lost the right to talk to you the day he strangled you and traumatised your children. And you can tell him that when he starts whining about it.
And having to spend time with him sounds excruciating. Are there any professional agencies who can supervise contact? Or a friend/family member? Take away from you ex the incentive of time with you to mess with your head.
One final point: you mentioned your youngest' possible asd: have you spoken to your developmental paediatrician about the trauma in his early life? This can cause some asd symptoms.

Sorry x-post about supervising contact.
This is good that you're seeing his manipulation.

Frankly, he sounds completely deranged and very dangerous. If it was me I would not want him anywhere NEAR my children, not even for supervised contact if it could possibly be avoided and absolutely NEVER alone with them or with just them and you (i.e. only with someone else there too). You really need to cut your contact with him as well, ideally it would be best if you could stop it altogether but failing that, at least cut it to the absolute minimum only directly about the children, and ideally with some distance in between (e.g. email only to a separate email address or even get your partner or someone to handle the correspondence for you).

You've not mentioned your new partner much, what does he make of all this?

Also agree that you would benefit from looking at your own reactions and boundaries. Have you tried anything like the Freedom programme or similar? You have done really well to get out of the relationship, but it sounds like you could do with some support in staying free of him.

It's easy for us, as outsiders, to read what you post and conclude he is completely deranged, dangerous, and to be cut out of your life at all costs. Which he is, very evidently.

You say you are worried of depriving your children of their dad. You are not depriving them of anything. You are giving them something. A chance at a normal life.

Think about what you're saying. You're worried about depriving them of contact with an abuser. Depriving them of being abused. That's crazy talk, right?

The likelihood of him actually relocating to another country where he doesn't speak the language, and therefore would find it hard to get work, seems quite small. I just think it's his way of keeping you in his life.

It's obvious your children are scared of him, personally I would cut all contact between him and the children. In fairy tale parlance he is the big bad wolf.

turbonerd if it's any help, I think you're awesome to have got away from such a brutal and manipulative man. Not exaggerating.

about the emails, it's probably wise to check them becuase a manipulative man might well be trying to influence them in a negative way, particularly towards you. His attitude to women generally might well come out too.

OP, the way you describe his endless talking, persuading and manipulating with you leads me to think that he will, without any shadow of doubt continue this type of behaviour with the dc given the slightest opportunity. Please protect them.he sounds a total head fuck as well as a dangerous criminal. Insane, in fact and possibly extremely dangerous.

Whilst you continue to engage with him you are actually still in a relationship and still in his thrall. Hence you feeling guilty. He is controlling you from a distance and probably enjoying it very much.

I hope you can find the strength to go no contact. He sounds actually evil.

He sounds a terrible person.... Why would you want him to be anywhere near your children? Being "their biological father" does not mean he can abuse them with your consent (by allowing him access) if he is controlling and manipulative this will not exclude your children!

A child's first male role model is their father... What is it he is teaching them? Is it what you want your daughter to think is an acceptable man to marry or your son to emulate as a grown man?

If you have a choice I would go NC...

You made some bad choices.... Learn from them, move on, and protect your children

I don't think your son is going to be able to recover until you cut all contact between him and your ex.

You say yourself that this man was a master manipulator - he has rejected all responsibility for what he did. He sounds fucking deranged.

And yet, he is e-mailing your kids? Do you see the e-mails? Do you have any idea what they say?

Your son desperately needs to have this man completely removed from his life, otherwise it will be a constant reminder to him. Plus it will mean he still looks to him as a "role model", which is dangerous.

He is already showing aggressive tendencies - that is hugely worrying.

Please stop worrying about your ex, and any sort of relationship between him and the children. He will be and will always be a hideous reminder for them about what they witnessed, and the worst type of role model possible.

Considering your sons behaviour, is there any chance that he was being abused behind closed doors by your ex?

I think you need to have someone (or MN) from outside looking at this for you. Your reactions to him are not quite "right" yet. I've been divorced from my ex-abusive (but nowhere in this league) dick-head for 6 years, and I still can get it wrong. It takes a long, long, long time to see through it.

You need a time delay in your responses so you are not just reacting to him. You also need to make sure that your kids emails are also coming to you. This is very easy to do. And someone needs to be reading them for you preferably. If skyping/facetiming, someone also needs to be sitting in on these conversations, but NOT you.

Really you need to cut all contact between you and him. I live in France and here under no circumstances would a father be totally denied contact with his kids. He is currently allowed supervised access, but he is not making contact to start the supervised access because he is "punishing them" for talking to the family judge.

My kids are 8 & 9 and I certainly am a long way from having sorted all this out, but you need to find someone to counsel your kids - someone outside of the family but who is competent. For us it happens to be our family doctor, who is also trained at CBT - but my kids chose who they wanted to talk to. We tried endless professionals, and they didn't want to talk to them. Having someone to talk to allows them to find out for themselves what someone from outside thinks is unacceptable behaviour.

My kids have gone through different stages. For the first 2 months they were so relieved to have no contact at all. Then they wanted contact, but I said that he had to initiate it as otherwise their Dad would believe that he was in the right. When someone does something bad, it is up to them to apologise.

Now they seem to be getting angry with him. I suspect we are just seeing the tip of this emotion, but it seems to be the healthiest one to me. They should be angry with him, he has behaved appallingly.

I guess what I am trying to say is don't project your feelings onto your kids, and what they are feeling today, may not be what they feel tomorrow. It takes a long time to work through these feelings.

You need to change the email addresses for your children and block him from the old ones. You need to go NC, immediately. IF you communicate anything to him, just say that it's become obvious that his continued presence in your lives is unhealthy, and you need time and space to process the abuse he has perpetrated against you all. Until he's prepared to take responsibility for his crimes against you all, that there won't be any contact whatsoever. That he has lost that right when he tried to kill you in front of your children.

Your DC can't heal until they have space to do so. He has not learned a single thing and is deep in minimisation of the horrors he inflicted on you all, denial of every evil deed he perpetrated against you and placing blame for it all on your shoulders.

What this situation does is keep you in a state of Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG) this 'Fog' does what it says on the tin, you can't see the woods for the trees, or even the hand in front of your face.

Lundy Bancroft says for an abuser to change, for him to decide to NOT abuse he has to pretty much lose everything in his life, his friends, family, work, everything. Even then the chances are he won't want to be a 'nice' person, or be kind to women. this is because he ISN'T a 'nice' person and he hates women (and himself)

In my experience, abusers never change. never ever ever. Oh sure there are posters (1 that I can recall actually) on MN that swear that theirs has changed. I seriously doubt that they have, merely that the former victim is managing life so they don't kick off. I am willing to bet that the FEAR of them abusing them is ever present albeit subconsciously. they are not free/happy/normal, they are merely coping and denying the rest.

There are stages of recovery turbonerd to start the recovery you need to see what's happening. I think your eyes have been opened here, and your journey has begun. You can't go back now, only forward. Your destination is freedom for all of you, and you will get there.

You made some bad choices.... Learn from them, move on, and protect your children

I know what you are trying to say bbery however this sounds dangerously like a blame comment there. it may not have been intended, am fully aware of this, but to a victim of DV used to being the one who got it wrong, interrogated and harassed until she was forced to admit it, that's what she'll see in your comment, further proof that SHE is wrong and being unreasonable.

The victim of abuse is worn down over time and kept permanently in a state of stress/confusion/fear so that all rational thinking is poisoned and bad choices are made - but put these 'choices' into context and you will see that the OTHER choices available to them were terrifying and impossible to consider.

When you know better and can see clearly, you make better decisions.

wallypops Super post! anger is part of the healing process, and in my experience there is no shortcut, you have to feel the anger you are entitled to have felt at the time. Encourage your DC to keep talking, no language is taboo, no feeling or thought is wrong. Even the negative ones can be gently challenged and turned around by asking if they help us, if they make us feel stronger or weaker, could we have perhaps thought about things differently knowing what we know now.

We have to get this anger out. it is devastating if left unexpressed. depression is anger turned inwards. when a person is abused, it should make us bloody angry, if we are conditioned to believe that we have no right to be upset, that upset/anger has to go somewhere, so it gets turned to a safer place - back inwards. I say safer only because when we turn anger to the abuser, the consequences are so terrifying, we can't consider them.

the way through recovery from abuse is Truth. being absolutely brutally honest (with yourself) about what that man has done, not minimising it for him and allowing yourself to feel and process the anger, hurt and upset.

When my ex left, the fear of him leaving caused me real physical pain. i knew in my head he had to go, but I was terrified. I clung on to a single fact of something he had done as the last straw and in my head refused to allow myself to forget it. My mantra at the time was 'The Truth Shall Set You Free' It was the one thing that kept me going.

When we have been abused we lose the right to our own feelings, everything is by permission of the abuser. it takes a while for us to allow ourselves to feel.

Now that our abusers are gone, slowly we recover. we can't do it without therapy, without looking at what happened to us and being kind to ourselves, reminding ourselves that they were wrong to have hurt us and we didn't deserve it. We have to understand that everyone makes choices. They chose to abuse. We chose NOT to accept it. We chose to save our children.

Have come home from work.
This is very hard to read, and very useful for me.
I excused so much of his crap to myself, and realise I have excused it to the children to. Wanted to protect them somehow, so must have thought it was pretty bad. He always spun it round to being my deficits, hours of menacing talk and aggressive displays until I thought my head would pop. I was not allowed to leave, the monologues lasted until he decided he was finished.
Which is nuts.
My new partner is very new, though we knew eachother before. The children don't know he is anything else than a friend. This new relationship was one of the things that got me thinking how utterly wrong my ex's behaviour is. To see nice, kind behaviour as something normal is such a relief and a wake- up call.
Yes, reading your replies is hard, but to be able to talk about it is very welcome

OP, I'm sorry, I'm really sorry for what you've been through, but:

In what fucking universe would you ever consider for a second letting a violent abuser near your children? I cannot even begin to comprehend it.

We know how hard this is love! I had to call Woman's Aid just to book myself on the Freedom Programme! I needed to cry but just couldn't give myself the permission to do so.

You have done nothing wrong, to the contrary, you have done a brave and good thing for yourself and your DC. You are free now physically, you now need to believe it mentally.

we're here. this is a long journey you have started, but you will make it, and you will look back and think that actually it wasn't THAT hard.