My difficult youth has caught up with me and is ruining every relationship I have

[KateeGee]

I don't know where to start really.

I guess I had a troubled childhood but always kind of plodded on with things. I am now 30 and various recent events have destroyed the facade and I have been in a bit of a breakdown since February. I feel like there is no point to existing. I am seeing a counsellor but an hour a week gets eaten up by me discussing minutiae of certain issues and I feel like I am avoiding talking about things. I don't want to open the floodgates. Whenever I talk about things I end up feeling worse. I don't even know why I am posting here. For ideas, or someone to tell me it will go away? I don't know.

I'm not even sure why I am posting this in Relationships really. I lurk/sometimes contribute here but have been reading a lot, some things have been really helpful for me. I guess all my troubles come from relationships and I feel like I have no one. I feel so lonely and like there is no point to my existence, I actually wish I could vanish.

I've been doing a lot of thinking recently and have come to the conclusion that I feel so unlikeable and lonely that I am desperate and do anything to be liked. And then I get shat on, and then feel even less likeable. I have no close friends - people don't seem to hate me but they don't like me either - I try hard to be nice, be reliable, be enthusiastic, have fun, but I just feel like I am on the periphery and no one actually chooses to be my friend. I get invited to things only if I am needed to make up numbers, because I am reliable. But otherwise I get dropped very easily. And I try to be thick skinned and philosophical about it, but when it happens all the time it really hurts. I try to not moan about it but privately I feel crushed. And I have no one to talk to because no one is close to me.

My mum is not the kind of mother I can have a heart to heart with, for various reasons. My dad is not around, he left the scene when I was a toddler.

I don't know why I am the way I am. I used to be quite confident and outgoing but gradually I have become painfully shy and self conscious. Things have happened over time, I have listed some below, but I have tried to get over them and move on, and I don't see why things that happened ten, twenty or more years ago should still affect me now. I am sensible and rational so should be able to move on, so I don't want to just put it down to the past. And even if it is because of the past, that doesn't help me get over it. I just want to know how I can live a life where I don't hate every fibre of my being, I am really struggling at the moment.

I was sexually abused by a cousin when I was young, under 10.i say abused but I don't remember protesting, and he was only about 18 months older than me, so I don't know if it was abuse or just a kid messing around. I just know I feel awful about it now. I know it's not my fault etc, but I just feel so crushed and ashamed about it.

I had a horrible emotionally abusive bully of a stepdad from the age of 11 to 17, I don't have the wherewithal to go into detail but he was a horrible person. There was finally one awful incident one Christmas and I basically told my mum she had to divorce him. Which she did.

I did ok at school and went to uni, I kind of got on with life but never made any close friends and always felt a bit on the sidelines. I lost my virginity (not counting the childhood sex incidents) when I was overseas at the age of 22. I always had an interest in sex, I wasn't scared of it or anything, but I didn't have much interest from men. I slept with a man who asked me out when I was overseas. In hindsight he kind of used me but I wasn't too fussed, I was moving back to England shortly after to finish my studies.

I was still wanting some kind of sexual attention and ended up on some chat websites. I was incredibly silly, looking back, but I just felt so lonely and sad that talking to people online was a distraction.

I eventually started chatting online to a much older guy, let's call him Mark, who I seemed to get on well with. I really felt we clicked. It then transpired he was in an unhappy marriage. I am not at all proud of myself, in fact I am ashamed of what I did, especially after reading this board at length for the last year or so. I was the other woman and I did an awful thing, I know that and nothing anyone says can make me feel worse about it. I would never do it now.

But I felt so low at the time I convinced myself it didn't matter, and we met for dinner. There was no pressure but we ended up going back to his hotel and sleeping together 3 times. So far, so seedy. He seemed really patient and kind to me and we got on. I made my boundaries clear, no unprotected sex etc. But the next morning we both woke up and he said he wanted me again, and we had sex again. I was so naive and inexperienced that I didn't realise he didn't put a condom on, I was horrified when I eventually realised what happened. There was no danger of pregnancy but there was all the rest. He apologised. We carried on the relationship, I carried on saying I didn't want unprotected sex, he carried on doing it anyway. I brought it up now and again but the response varied between "we've done it now, might as well carry on, I don't have any infections so it's fine" and "you need to be more assertive, you are in control, I won't do anything you don't want to". So I kind of gave up fighting about it. He was only the second person I ever slept with as a consenting adult and I didn't

Around the same time I saw another man who also pretty much made me have unprotected sex with him. It wasn't violent or anything, but I kept saying I didn't want to but he overpowered me and did it anyway. I was upset and it was painful and horrible. And then all of a sudden he turned really nasty, ignored me, said he didn't want to see me. I was upset but had to forget it and move on.

Mark then decided to dump me. I felt sad but I accepted it, I knew what we were doing was stupid and wrong, and I should move on. I did, I started seeing someone else, Joe, who lived a couple of hours away from me. I was really nervous as I still was so inexperienced even though I was nearly 24 at this stage. I had never had a proper boyfriend. But Joe was sweet, he knew about my affair and that I regretted it, but didn't make me feel bad about it. I liked him but my shyness was so crippling. Nonetheless he was patient and quite quickly we started a physical relationship. He pushed things quite far, he liked spanking me and things, but I never felt uncomfortable, and if I ever said I didn't want to do something he would stop straight away. I didn't hate it at all, it was the best sexual relationship I have ever had, but now when I think about it I feel like I am bad for having enjoyed it.

Mark contacted me and asked me how I was. I said I was bearing up ok, I respected his decision etc. He sensed I was sad, asked me why. So I ended up telling him all about the reasons I hate myself, including the things that happened to me when I was a girl. He is the only person I have ever told. He said this is the reason why he liked me, he felt he was destined to meet me to look after me and protect me and blah blah blah. Now I am not a stupid, needy, naive pre-MN 23 year old I realise I fell into a trap of a manipulator, but I did not see this at the time.

I told him about Joe, that it was early days but I met someone. He said it was good and he was happy for me, but then over a few weeks he started saying he felt really sad, he felt like I was cheating on him (!); eventually it got to one night when I was at Joe's house, and out of the blue Mark texts me to say he has told his wife about our affair. That weekend was awful, and ended up with Mark meeting me in Joe's town as I was about to get the train home. He said "I wanted to see you, if you said you didn't want to see me again I was going to kill myself", and showed me a couple of boxes of tablets. I was distraught and ended up taking him to see a doctor and stuff. Somehow our relationship resumed. He saw a counsellor and said he decided that I was the best thing in his life, so he was going to continue seeing me and telling me he loves me.

Every time I tried to cool it off he would come out with another breakdown. Every time I went to see Joe he would have a mini breakdown and say how it felt like something was stabbing him in the heart. After a couple of years Joe moved on, stopped contacting me without telling me he was done, and found someone younger and prettier and probably less stupid and shy than me; I can't blame him.

I never asked Mark to leave his wife or anything like that. He would sometimes say he wished he could find a way for us to work as a three. Writing this down I realise it is so ludicrous and I was so dumb to believe/make myself believe any of it. But I really liked Mark as a person, feel he understood me and was a good friend.

I saw various other people who I met online, I met and had one night stands with about ten different men in about 18 months. But they all did exactly the same thing - seemed to be keen, wanted to meet, were charming, slept with me and then ignored me. I know it was stupid to expect anything more, I know it was stupid to sleep with someone on the first meeting with them, I know I did everything wrong so kind of deserved what I got. But every single person, besides Joe and Mark, who has ever shown an interest in me, has lost that interest after having sex once. Which makes me feel utterly worthless. The sex was usually rubbish anyway, and the men not that great, but I just feel so unlikeable.

Mark did eventually leave his wife, I said I hope it's not because of me. He said no, the marriage had gone sour before I arrived on the scene and was doomed to fail anyway. So he was a free man, but I still didn't want to commit myself to him.

He would not openly say he didn't want me speaking to other men but if I did he'd make little comments about being hurt. I met a guy at work who I was not at all interested in, but went for dinner with just as friends, and Mark was furious about it. He'd try and manipulate me out of it by coming to pick me up even though it was well out of his way to do so. It caused such a horrible atmosphere and made me cry, and I ended up apologising about it.

He still ignored my requests about using contraception. Worse, one morning I was awake, he started to touch me but I said I didn't want to have sex, he carried on touching me. My legs were clamped together and he basically forced them apart and had sex with me anyway. I was quite shocked and not moving, he said he found it hard to have sex with me if I am not responsive. He finished, left for work and I burst into tears. I know this was wrong. I brought this up recently and he asked if I was accusing him of rape, I said no, he got really upset and said he is not a rapist, he would never hurt me, and then I ended up apologising again. I know this is really messed up. He acknowledges that this event happened, and he says his reason for carrying on is that he thought I was just tired. He knows that reason is not good enough. And the more I think about it the more devastated I am that he did this to me knowing all the other times I have been used for sex.

I had enough of his controlling behaviour when he looked through my phone and misunderstood some messages that he saw, I was furious at him invading my privacy and told him our relationship was over. This is when my breakdown started, I basically cried for 3 whole days about everything that I have cocked up in my life. He was there for me and said even though our relationship was over, he was still my best friend and would help me. He got the ball rolling with organising me to see a counsellor, took a day off work to sit with me while I cried and cried. So I am grateful to him for being my friend, and he really is my only friend. But he still longs to be my boyfriend/husband, even though I have told him that's not what I want. It makes it difficult because he still wants to hold my hand and touch me and kiss me, and I feel so guilty for saying no.

I feel torn because having read a lot recently I realise that my relationship with Mark was at best a bit controlling, and I should really ditch this person altogether, but I really do feel like he is my only friend. He is starting to respect my decision about not continuing our relationship, but he still laments what could have been which is draining. I am pretty sure we will not start a romantic/sexual relationship again.

But I have never felt so alone in my life. I am struggling to carry on.

This post is getting a bit long and nonsensical now, I think I will leave it there. I don't know what I am asking.

Yes, it's a slow but sure relearning of how to rethink. Constantly doubting myself about everything, (from relationships to my recollection of facts), and I have recently realised it's lack of confidence, not the reality of how I am. For example, I know that grass is green but if someone told me "don't be stupid, it's pink" I would feel stupid, start to doubt myself and feel the need to check my facts, rather than just thinking the other person is a fool. My self esteem was that poor (and still is, sometimes). But slowly it will change. I blame the feminist boards, putting ideas in my head!

I guess another part of the problem is I never understand why friends have the need to make me feel stupid, or why a stranger might hurl abuse at me in the street for being fat and unattractive, or why abusive partners are abusive. I don't see what these people have to gain by making someone else feel shit, I would never dream of doing such a thing. But then I realised that they don't have a valid reason. As soon as I accepted that you can't explain the inexplicable (which has only really happened since I started this thread not even three weeks ago), it started to get a whole lot easier to work on myself and put my foot down.

Some people get off on putting others down. You can call it emotional vampirism, if you like. My mum could be like that - I'd be away from home for a couple of weeks, get back, and the first thing she would say (literally!) was "Your face is really spotty" or "what are you wearing" or "is that the way you did your hair deliberately?" etc etc. The little poison darts (or in some cases much bigger ones!) are designed to puncture your energy field, causing you to leak energy, which the vampire then sucks up. A bit like a Dementor (if you've seen/read Harry Potter).

And you know, it comes from their insecurity. All your Uni friends - they don't like you to break the mould, have new ideas, because that makes them uncomfortable and that you might know something they don't - which attacks their security, so they put you down.
The bloke in the street who shouts crap at you - betcha he's no oil painting himself! (unless by Picasso).
Abusive partners - well they're the worst. They are fully feeding off you - fully getting off on it - and have a vested interest in keeping you down, so that you don't escape, so that they have a permanent source of emotional energy to feed on.

Or you can call it "tall poppy syndrome" - some people just don't like to see others doing better than them, or trying to get on/ahead in life, so they cut them off at the knees to keep them down. Ever tried to give up smoking? There will always be at least one "friend" who also smokes who tries to tempt you back to it. Always. Because they don't like that you are managing to give up smoking when they can't, even if they don't want to! They know that there are health implications but how dare you try to give up to improve your health! Who do you think you are! Do you think you're better than them or something? (No of course you don't, but that's how they feel about it) So they try and keep you back in the "bad place" of smoking, or overeating, or whatever it is, rather than encouraging you to continue with your self-improvement, just so you don't make them feel bad.

Sorry, that's a bit of a long witter (as usual! ) - hope it makes some sense. :)

I recognise the grass green/pink thing. I felt like this when I was in a relationship with my abuser.

I felt like it because he really was doing all he could to tip my mind. I felt genuine confusion about eg if the sky is blue... Or is it green?

Perhaps someone will come along and give it the correct term: when you are psychologically undermined to such an extent you doubt your perception on even the basics. Means they've done a 'good' job on you. I don't doubt that if you were out of his orbit you would know, with not a hint of confusion, that grass is, of course, green.

Yes, some people get off on torturing others. On another thread someone mentioned a new book, Power and Control - a good follow-up to Lundy Bancroft's 'Why Does He Do That? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men'. I tend to think that power and control are base instincts, close to the surface in most of us; only we are socialised to recognise it and quit indulging in it. Some enjoy it too much and have no intention of giving up their irresistible sport. Something missing in them imo, something human not there.

There are some sick people about.

Venting, because I have no one else to vent to.

So I am on holiday with an abusive ex partner. This is a bit awkward, but nothing terrible is happening. I think mark is finally seeing that this isnot a reconciliation holiday.

I was actually having a great time. Staying in a beautiful place, we have done some fun things and eaten good food. I've slept loads, much needed, I was feeling so much more refreshed and ready to be happier. But a couple of times Mark takes things just a bit too far, like rubbing my back even though I keep moving his hand away. Or kissing my forehead. I asked why he is doing this, he says it's a sign of affection for a friend, I said friends don't do that. I said please don't do it. He said I need to tell him if he is crossing a line and hugging me too much I'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU TO NOT DO IT.

Last night I was half asleep and I could feel him coming closer to me. I was definitely nodding off (I could hear myself snoring ) but I guess he thought I was completely asleep, then he said "I love you". I guess some people would think this sweet but I just found it creepy, plus I have told him specifically to stop saying that to me. I don't care if I'm asleep at the time, don't say it. So this woke me up and I was disproportionately annoyed. I didn't want to talk so didn’t tell him I was awake. Then he started tossing and turning really dramatically, and reading his ipad so there was a bright light in the room. Obviously this would have wokempn me, so I asked what he was doing.

He said he was feeling sad and reading about grief, thinking about his first wife. He asked if he could hold my hand, knowing I would feel like a heartless bitch if I said no. I didn't say yes, but he kept taking my hand anyway. He said it wasn't about me, I said "but you are making it my problem". I was too tired to carry on the conversation, he told me to go to sleep and kissed my forehead again (ffs), so I went to sleep angry with a migraine. And woke up angry with a migraine.

What I wanted to say was "it's very sad that your wife died, but i was 11 at the time, it was nearly 20 years ago, it is not my fault and I cannot fix it, nor do I have the responsibility to fix how you feel about it. Plus, the way you treated me has made me very suspicious and cynical, so I don't see why the solution to you feeling sad about a bereavement is holding my hand. Because then it will be a suffocating hug, then you will try to kiss me and touch me, then you will try to have sex with me. And if I don't do any of that it's a massive guilt trip. I don't think you want comfort from a friend about feeling sad, if it were that simple I would happily oblige. But I feel like you are using this very sad thing that happened to you to manipulate me into doing what you want. And I feel like a bitch for even thinking that".

So he still doesn't respect my boundaries, who'd have thought it. It's ok, I'm not in danger, I am not about to fall back into his clutches either. It's just irritated me. Not spoiling my holiday though, I still intend to enjoy myself. I just don't know why he is still pushing for more.

I don't think we can be friends. I guess this would have been obvious to anyone with half a brain. But I was being uncharacteristically optimistic.

That s all a bit incoherent. I know what I meant.

Oh yeah and I may have told my friends their behaviour is akin to that of c*nts. Not sure that went down well.

Doesn't he realise how suffocating he is??

Good you said that to your friends because they really are!

Anyway, try have a lovely rest of holiday despite miserable arse - he makes my skin crawl and I don't even know him!

Apparently not, theysay. I hated his clinging even before I ended it all. But he thinks (or says) this is normal affection between friends. Um, no.

I think on reflection, cunts was a bit harsh on my friends, but I won't apologise for it. I will get off on a technicality just like they do."I didn't call you a cunt directly, just said that they act in the way you have". It came about when one of them was moaning about a guy making fun of him for the exact thing he has mocked me for many times, he said how ridiculous the other guy was, not to mention stupid and insensitive as the thing being mocked was totally out of his hands. Then another friend was agrreing heartily. I pointed out that they have done the exact thing to me, but of course "that's different because it's between friends, so it's banter". Then they were high fiving eachother (virtually, this conversation was online) for having proved me wrong again and proved they are not hypocrites. Um, no, I have had a lifetime of people making jokes at my expense, it's not banter, only a cunt would do that. Then the conversation ended.

They have hides like rhino though, today they just picked up on a whole new conversation and included me in it, without my asking. But it was something quite contentious that I could not ignore, i thought they were just trying to provoke me but they actually listened to my opinion and respected it. So they are capable of it sometimes.

I have a friend who used to stand/sit too close when we were together, with or without company. It really made me uncomfortable till one day I just said
''John- it makes me really uncomfortable when you get in my space and makes me not want to see you''
John- ''I'm sorry I didn't realise I was doing that,I won't do it again''
And he hasn't! We still get along really well, we can pretty much talk about anything!

Anyway, my point is, Mark knows he's crossing boundaries...
(just re-read thread)

And he's not respecting yours at all, he just backs off a bit when you tell him too, seems like he's just waiting for you to realise you really do love him!
He is taking up too much of your mental energy, would be a really good idea to go totally NC with him when you get back, even for a couple of weeks at first, you'll see the fog will lift and you'll be able to think clearer!

Maybe being more assertive with your friends has worked? Just carry on pulling them up on it when they upset you, or just say
''There you go, behaving like cunts again!''

Yes, thanks theysay. I do feel like it is cooling off, I said we should probably not see eachother for a while and he took it well. He still wants me to tell him if I meet someone else, I said it's not really any of his business , also, fat chance of me getting into a relationship again. But anyway. If it keeps him quiet...

Told my friends today that I didn't find it funny when they made fun of people making fun of a murder victim. They saw my point. By jove. Mumsnet has made me ballsy.

Just re-found this thread, you seem to be in a much better place! Hope your holiday ended well and that you've managed to mostly steer clear of Creepymark. Good job standing up to cunty friends too!

but they actually listened to my opinion and respected it. So they are capable of it sometimes.

They tramped all over you, before, because you let them. But they listened etc to you now because you have set a boundary: this far, no further.

YAY

Hi Thumb, yes doing ok at the moment. Haven't cried for at least 2 weeks which is something like progress I suppose . The holiday was generally fine, had a nice time. He tried to get a bit huggy but it just left me cold. Haven't seen him since we got back though we have been in touch. Just general contact but for the first time he hasn't gone on about being in love or wanting us to be together. So maybe he is finally backing off. I have been less available to him. He suggested chatting last night but it was quite late and I was tired so said I was off for a bath and bed. Before I would have felt guilt tripped into chatting until he decided he wanted to go to bed. God I was such a doormat.

I know no contact is best but I feel I am managing fine now. I will never be in a relationship with him and if he pushes anything hd knows I will tell him to get lost. I feel like it's in my control now, if we are friends it won't be as intense and I won't rely on him for anything emotional. If that's not enough for him it will fizzle out.

Ha springy don't get too excited, my friends still say knobbish things and make fun of me. They like to brush me off as an uppity woman for banter. I hate that word with a passion.

I have had a couple of counselling sessions where I finally discussed big issues. Last week I admitted about what Mark did to me, sex with me when I said no and some of the other instances of coercion and unprotected sex and stuff. I felt quite unemotional speaking about it. It felt so intensely upsetting at the time but when I say it out loud it is do clear that he was behaving appallingly that I was almost laughing. That's quite bad. I guess I've stopped being in denial and realised that our relationship was the cause of many of my problems, not solace from them.

We have spoken a bit about my mum. We get on now mostly, we have the odd disagreement but nothing too dramatic. My counsellor said there seems to be a bit of a role reversal going on, where I am the parent and she is childish. I see that.

I've also started talking about my childhood a little bit. I never ever talk about it. At the time I just kind of got on with things, I guess I felt quite resilient, what else can you do? But I didn't start feeling damaged by it until I was around 15, and when I look back at it now it all seems so chaotic and awful that I am amazed I even managed to turn up at school, let alone do ok for myself academically. I felt like such a failure at the time but I think I did remarkably well, all things considered.

I have spoken to the counsellor about my mum leaving me with my grandparents to live with her boyfriend, who was an absolute cunt. Then she married him and moved me away from my grandparents (who were lovely, and distraught about my brother and I leaving, even thought it wasn't far). How some family members berated me for leaving my grandparents - I was 11! It's hardly like I felt I had a choice in the matter. There was a massive pressure and expectation put upon me to be sensible and grown up even though I was a child. I looked older than I was, I started my periods early and matured physically quite young, and I was always quite sensible and level headed but I feel I was never really allowed to just be a kid. And being the only girl in the family, I was treated differently. Expected to do housework and be subserviant to my bastard stepdad. I don't mind and never did mind doing chores but he was just so horrible about it. After touching on it in my last session I have remembered things that I had totally forgotten about.

We were in a supermarket once and he was having a go at me saying I need to learn how to do a fry-up, as when I got a man he would expect me to make one for him on Sunday mornings. I said er no, I'd tell him to make it himself and he replied "He'd punch you in the mouth if you said that". I was 12 years old, what an awful thing to say. There were so many other horrible things he did, he was a total bully.

We had midnight flits back to my grandparents' house when he and my mum had a row - the first time this happened I was 11 and was woken up by my mum and had to leave in my pyjamas and dressing gown in the middle of the night - it was the early hours of last day of term before Christmas so it was absolutely freezing. But they reconciled and we were back within days. I remember because it was my birthday is just before Christmas and I remember spending my 12th birthday crying in my bedroom, and my mum's toddler godson cuddling me, bless him. This was the first time but it wasn't the last. Many times we had to flee the house. One was when I was 13, the night before we were going to go on a summer holiday with my mum and gran, but without him. He started a row with my mum about something He was drunk and smashing glasses in the garden. I was in the locked bathroom in tears and he broke the door down so forcefully that the lock broke, and yelled at me asking what I was crying for. I was screaming so bad that a neighbour from several doors down came round with a baseball bat probably thinking we were being attacked. It was so horrible. I had kind of blocked this all out. We fled the house with our packed suitcases, went on holiday and then when we got back to the airport at the end he was there at Arrivals running to my mum grinning with open arms. What an absolute cunt. My mum fell out with her sister about this, they didn't talk again until she started to divorce him several years later. The bathroom lock was never fixed in the next few years that I lived there, I never felt safe or like I had privacy, and woe betide me if I ever brought up the fact that we should have a lock on the door

I'm so angry at my mother for putting us through this. I feel like she failed me and my brothers. Looking back now it's obvious she was in an emotionally abusive relationship but it still doesn't stop me resenting the fact that she put us through it in the first place, let alone stuck with it for several years until I basically told her she had to get divorced. I've never had a decent blueprint for relationships. I'm kind of put off them for life now, I am quite happy to be alone.

It breaks my heart when I read stories of women in emotionally abusive situations where children are being damaged too. It's so unfair on them and can quite possibly screw them up for life, I am proof of that. I wish they would just get out and worry about the logistics after.

Gosh it helps to say all this, even if it is just to the internet...

Glad things are looking up. Counselling stirs up all sorts of stuff but when you've looked at it and put it away again, it hurts a tiny bit less. I hope!

Oh Katie, I have to say that reading that has made my heart weep for you, the child you and the adult you now! But yes, you are strong - you have locked all this away in a black box, and now it is forcing its way out into the open to be seen, to be spoken about - and now, as a strong adult, you will see these things in a different light and, while seeing how awful the life you were forced to lead really was, you'll be able to work through it.

Anger is good - make sure you place it where it truly belongs though. I don't know if your mum had her own issues/problems, or whether she was just weak; but blame her only for what is her fault, and blame others for stuff that she had forced upon her too.

You are doing so so well, getting all this stuff out into the open - but you'll feel heaps better when you deal with it all. I don't know if you've ever had a spot that doesn't seem to heal over properly - it sort of does, but there's always a bit of a scab? It's because there's still some "shit" in there that needs to be removed completely so the spot can completely heal. Well, this is like that - you need to clean out the wound completely and then it can heal properly - otherwise it'll scab over but always be opening up again.

Have more and (or if you prefer, with some )

I think I have had the push I need to finally go no contact with Mark. I have asked him to not contact ke again after the latest episode.

I said, to be clear, if we are to carry on being friends I don't want him to touch me intimately ever again. I thought the only possible answer to this would be "ok" but he kept bringing up the last time we were intimate, saying I was aroused and I am ending our relationship because I feel guilty about the fact I wanted to have sex. I said no, a reflex reaction is not me consenting to sexual contact, me having had sex with him in the past, even the recent past, doesn't mean I am committed to it forevermore. I made it clear I wasn't blaming anyone, I just don't want to do it ever again. But rather than say "ok" he kept bringing up the last time when he "could tell" I was aroused. He wasn't getting it that he should never have known what my intimate body parts felt like at that point in the first place because his hands shouldn't have been there. I said I asked him to stop, he said he did. He did stop, but after about two hours, during which he stopped to get a condom without asking me if that's what I wanted. I said no. He stopped with the condom but carried on trying to seduce me. I said it shouldn't take that long to stop once I said no. He also asked why I had vondoms that I bought with him ages ago in my bag if I didn't want sex. I said the contents of my bag are not his concern (he had a dubious explanation about why he saw them in my bag, maybe i didn’t plan to use them with him. I didn't plan to use them eith anyone, they just ended up in that bag in a tidy up. was trying to reason, not argue or blame him for the past, just saying what i wanted for the future. Some of his responses actually frightened me.

What a mindfuck.

there are some weird typos going on there. I was on a train.

Looking back I don't even know how or why I got into the position where Mark could touch me in the first place. I kept moving away, moving his hand away, shaking my head and asking nicely for him to not touch me but it didn't work. I think I have a problem with saying no, even if I say the word people don't seem to listen to me or respect it. Not just with Mark, with work, with my friends, with my family...

Thank you Thumb and patronising. makes total sense. Everything has kind of come out, like a water balloon has burst and everything is all over the place. I guess I am in the process of mopping the floor. I always did hate that. I just want to stop feeling so sad all the time.

Oh Katee - I'm half sorry and half glad that this latest has happened - sorry because you really shouldn't have had to go through this shit again with him, God knows you've been clear enough for any sane person to be mortified enough to stop pestering you; and glad because it's giving you the push you need to realise that this guy is never going to stop with the mindfucking, or the attempted bodyfucking.

Do try and find an assertiveness training course to do - you may be able to access one through work (I did, although mine was for a different reason), so maybe ask HR, or if you don't want to let on to them that you are doing it, then someone else. If you think that you have trouble saying no to people (not just Mark) then this could be the very thing for you - but in terms of people not listening/believing/respecting your No, it's also going to help because it will give you the confidence to believe in your No, iyswim.

Have you finished doing the online Freedom programme yet? If not, go back and finish it. And have a look at Lundy Bancroft's book too Why Does He Do That? if you haven't already; it might give you some more insights and tips on how to finish things completely with Mark.

Totally agree with Thumbscrewswitch _
You'll eventually feel so much better for facing up to things!

And I know how you feel with your mum, I could never understand why she kept going back to someone who was so very very cruel to me! (not so much with my sisters tho so maybe thats why!)

Mad isnt it, TheySay? I've been thinking about it, I forgive my mum I guess, and we get on well, but in my own head I always wonder how the hell she thought the situation was acceptable? Oh well it's spilt milk now I suppose.

Thanks for the recommendation Thumb, Lundy Bancroft book has arrived today. A little light reading.