My difficult youth has caught up with me and is ruining every relationship I have

[KateeGee]

I don't know where to start really.

I guess I had a troubled childhood but always kind of plodded on with things. I am now 30 and various recent events have destroyed the facade and I have been in a bit of a breakdown since February. I feel like there is no point to existing. I am seeing a counsellor but an hour a week gets eaten up by me discussing minutiae of certain issues and I feel like I am avoiding talking about things. I don't want to open the floodgates. Whenever I talk about things I end up feeling worse. I don't even know why I am posting here. For ideas, or someone to tell me it will go away? I don't know.

I'm not even sure why I am posting this in Relationships really. I lurk/sometimes contribute here but have been reading a lot, some things have been really helpful for me. I guess all my troubles come from relationships and I feel like I have no one. I feel so lonely and like there is no point to my existence, I actually wish I could vanish.

I've been doing a lot of thinking recently and have come to the conclusion that I feel so unlikeable and lonely that I am desperate and do anything to be liked. And then I get shat on, and then feel even less likeable. I have no close friends - people don't seem to hate me but they don't like me either - I try hard to be nice, be reliable, be enthusiastic, have fun, but I just feel like I am on the periphery and no one actually chooses to be my friend. I get invited to things only if I am needed to make up numbers, because I am reliable. But otherwise I get dropped very easily. And I try to be thick skinned and philosophical about it, but when it happens all the time it really hurts. I try to not moan about it but privately I feel crushed. And I have no one to talk to because no one is close to me.

My mum is not the kind of mother I can have a heart to heart with, for various reasons. My dad is not around, he left the scene when I was a toddler.

I don't know why I am the way I am. I used to be quite confident and outgoing but gradually I have become painfully shy and self conscious. Things have happened over time, I have listed some below, but I have tried to get over them and move on, and I don't see why things that happened ten, twenty or more years ago should still affect me now. I am sensible and rational so should be able to move on, so I don't want to just put it down to the past. And even if it is because of the past, that doesn't help me get over it. I just want to know how I can live a life where I don't hate every fibre of my being, I am really struggling at the moment.

I was sexually abused by a cousin when I was young, under 10.i say abused but I don't remember protesting, and he was only about 18 months older than me, so I don't know if it was abuse or just a kid messing around. I just know I feel awful about it now. I know it's not my fault etc, but I just feel so crushed and ashamed about it.

I had a horrible emotionally abusive bully of a stepdad from the age of 11 to 17, I don't have the wherewithal to go into detail but he was a horrible person. There was finally one awful incident one Christmas and I basically told my mum she had to divorce him. Which she did.

I did ok at school and went to uni, I kind of got on with life but never made any close friends and always felt a bit on the sidelines. I lost my virginity (not counting the childhood sex incidents) when I was overseas at the age of 22. I always had an interest in sex, I wasn't scared of it or anything, but I didn't have much interest from men. I slept with a man who asked me out when I was overseas. In hindsight he kind of used me but I wasn't too fussed, I was moving back to England shortly after to finish my studies.

I was still wanting some kind of sexual attention and ended up on some chat websites. I was incredibly silly, looking back, but I just felt so lonely and sad that talking to people online was a distraction.

I eventually started chatting online to a much older guy, let's call him Mark, who I seemed to get on well with. I really felt we clicked. It then transpired he was in an unhappy marriage. I am not at all proud of myself, in fact I am ashamed of what I did, especially after reading this board at length for the last year or so. I was the other woman and I did an awful thing, I know that and nothing anyone says can make me feel worse about it. I would never do it now.

But I felt so low at the time I convinced myself it didn't matter, and we met for dinner. There was no pressure but we ended up going back to his hotel and sleeping together 3 times. So far, so seedy. He seemed really patient and kind to me and we got on. I made my boundaries clear, no unprotected sex etc. But the next morning we both woke up and he said he wanted me again, and we had sex again. I was so naive and inexperienced that I didn't realise he didn't put a condom on, I was horrified when I eventually realised what happened. There was no danger of pregnancy but there was all the rest. He apologised. We carried on the relationship, I carried on saying I didn't want unprotected sex, he carried on doing it anyway. I brought it up now and again but the response varied between "we've done it now, might as well carry on, I don't have any infections so it's fine" and "you need to be more assertive, you are in control, I won't do anything you don't want to". So I kind of gave up fighting about it. He was only the second person I ever slept with as a consenting adult and I didn't

Around the same time I saw another man who also pretty much made me have unprotected sex with him. It wasn't violent or anything, but I kept saying I didn't want to but he overpowered me and did it anyway. I was upset and it was painful and horrible. And then all of a sudden he turned really nasty, ignored me, said he didn't want to see me. I was upset but had to forget it and move on.

Mark then decided to dump me. I felt sad but I accepted it, I knew what we were doing was stupid and wrong, and I should move on. I did, I started seeing someone else, Joe, who lived a couple of hours away from me. I was really nervous as I still was so inexperienced even though I was nearly 24 at this stage. I had never had a proper boyfriend. But Joe was sweet, he knew about my affair and that I regretted it, but didn't make me feel bad about it. I liked him but my shyness was so crippling. Nonetheless he was patient and quite quickly we started a physical relationship. He pushed things quite far, he liked spanking me and things, but I never felt uncomfortable, and if I ever said I didn't want to do something he would stop straight away. I didn't hate it at all, it was the best sexual relationship I have ever had, but now when I think about it I feel like I am bad for having enjoyed it.

Mark contacted me and asked me how I was. I said I was bearing up ok, I respected his decision etc. He sensed I was sad, asked me why. So I ended up telling him all about the reasons I hate myself, including the things that happened to me when I was a girl. He is the only person I have ever told. He said this is the reason why he liked me, he felt he was destined to meet me to look after me and protect me and blah blah blah. Now I am not a stupid, needy, naive pre-MN 23 year old I realise I fell into a trap of a manipulator, but I did not see this at the time.

I told him about Joe, that it was early days but I met someone. He said it was good and he was happy for me, but then over a few weeks he started saying he felt really sad, he felt like I was cheating on him (!); eventually it got to one night when I was at Joe's house, and out of the blue Mark texts me to say he has told his wife about our affair. That weekend was awful, and ended up with Mark meeting me in Joe's town as I was about to get the train home. He said "I wanted to see you, if you said you didn't want to see me again I was going to kill myself", and showed me a couple of boxes of tablets. I was distraught and ended up taking him to see a doctor and stuff. Somehow our relationship resumed. He saw a counsellor and said he decided that I was the best thing in his life, so he was going to continue seeing me and telling me he loves me.

Every time I tried to cool it off he would come out with another breakdown. Every time I went to see Joe he would have a mini breakdown and say how it felt like something was stabbing him in the heart. After a couple of years Joe moved on, stopped contacting me without telling me he was done, and found someone younger and prettier and probably less stupid and shy than me; I can't blame him.

I never asked Mark to leave his wife or anything like that. He would sometimes say he wished he could find a way for us to work as a three. Writing this down I realise it is so ludicrous and I was so dumb to believe/make myself believe any of it. But I really liked Mark as a person, feel he understood me and was a good friend.

I saw various other people who I met online, I met and had one night stands with about ten different men in about 18 months. But they all did exactly the same thing - seemed to be keen, wanted to meet, were charming, slept with me and then ignored me. I know it was stupid to expect anything more, I know it was stupid to sleep with someone on the first meeting with them, I know I did everything wrong so kind of deserved what I got. But every single person, besides Joe and Mark, who has ever shown an interest in me, has lost that interest after having sex once. Which makes me feel utterly worthless. The sex was usually rubbish anyway, and the men not that great, but I just feel so unlikeable.

Mark did eventually leave his wife, I said I hope it's not because of me. He said no, the marriage had gone sour before I arrived on the scene and was doomed to fail anyway. So he was a free man, but I still didn't want to commit myself to him.

He would not openly say he didn't want me speaking to other men but if I did he'd make little comments about being hurt. I met a guy at work who I was not at all interested in, but went for dinner with just as friends, and Mark was furious about it. He'd try and manipulate me out of it by coming to pick me up even though it was well out of his way to do so. It caused such a horrible atmosphere and made me cry, and I ended up apologising about it.

He still ignored my requests about using contraception. Worse, one morning I was awake, he started to touch me but I said I didn't want to have sex, he carried on touching me. My legs were clamped together and he basically forced them apart and had sex with me anyway. I was quite shocked and not moving, he said he found it hard to have sex with me if I am not responsive. He finished, left for work and I burst into tears. I know this was wrong. I brought this up recently and he asked if I was accusing him of rape, I said no, he got really upset and said he is not a rapist, he would never hurt me, and then I ended up apologising again. I know this is really messed up. He acknowledges that this event happened, and he says his reason for carrying on is that he thought I was just tired. He knows that reason is not good enough. And the more I think about it the more devastated I am that he did this to me knowing all the other times I have been used for sex.

I had enough of his controlling behaviour when he looked through my phone and misunderstood some messages that he saw, I was furious at him invading my privacy and told him our relationship was over. This is when my breakdown started, I basically cried for 3 whole days about everything that I have cocked up in my life. He was there for me and said even though our relationship was over, he was still my best friend and would help me. He got the ball rolling with organising me to see a counsellor, took a day off work to sit with me while I cried and cried. So I am grateful to him for being my friend, and he really is my only friend. But he still longs to be my boyfriend/husband, even though I have told him that's not what I want. It makes it difficult because he still wants to hold my hand and touch me and kiss me, and I feel so guilty for saying no.

I feel torn because having read a lot recently I realise that my relationship with Mark was at best a bit controlling, and I should really ditch this person altogether, but I really do feel like he is my only friend. He is starting to respect my decision about not continuing our relationship, but he still laments what could have been which is draining. I am pretty sure we will not start a romantic/sexual relationship again.

But I have never felt so alone in my life. I am struggling to carry on.

This post is getting a bit long and nonsensical now, I think I will leave it there. I don't know what I am asking.

Sorry there may be too much information in my last post.

I really should spend at least 15 minutes doing what I am paid to do . Will have a read of your replies when I get home.

Why not change your phone number?

I'm a bit lost for words here. He doesn't see to you, it's finished when he's finished ( ), he sulks when you finish yourself off. He says it makes him feel inadequate (how about: he is)

Call me a sharing sort but I don't feel satisfied until we're both satisfied. Doesn't he notice you haven't climaxed? How in earth is that your fault? How on earth could you, or should you, 'try harder'? How about he tries harder?

But again he's made it your fault. It is not your fault ffs.

"I so want to believe that he is not entirely manipulative"

But all the evidence is that he is. And worse.

Sweetheart, I know why you don't want to believe the worst of him. You're trying to protect yourself from very real pain. And that's understandable.

But the fact is that by staying in this denial and staying in this relationship, on whatever level, you're actually shoring up more pain for yourself in the long run.

You will never, ever be happy with this man in your life. I know at the moment you probably can't imagine being happy without him either, and I'm not saying there's a magic wand to turn your life around overnight and heal all the very real and very deep pain you carry within you, but you need to get shot of him to really begin the work of healing yourself.

I do get how hard things have been for you, and still are. It sounds like you have had to deal with a lot of abuse and probably also neglect too, and it sounds like you've never had any strong, loving female figures in your life; those things combined have made you very vulnerable to a sexual and emotional predator like Mark.

So many people close to you have damaged you, or failed you, and that takes its toll. But you can see yourself that change is on the way, well done to you for starting counselling, and for having the courage to reach out on here. You can and will get him and his lies out of your life. You deserve so much better.

Sometimes the only way through is to feel the pain, accept it and live with it. Knowing that it wasn't your fault. Bad people have done bad things to you, that you didn't deserve and didn't cause. You can't move on from the past because there's a little girl inside you who's never been looked after and is still suffering. Look after her. Protect her. Give her the love she always should have had. And things will start to change.

I've caught up on the last couple of days of great advice, thank you.

Woke up not feeling dog-tired for the first time in ages today. Maybe this is a sign. I also made a cake last night (when times get tough, make cake), and ignored any contact. I am pretty stubborn so if avoiding contact is the right thing to do, I think I can do it.

The cake making was to avoid being on the internet. Since Mark and I met online we have mostly chatted online (I hate speaking on the phone), and even that started become an obligation. When he was still married he would want me to be online waiting for him and then when his wife would appear he'd abruptly say "unalone" and sign out, leaving me hanging. I don't know why I ever put up with this.

Since he got divorced we still chatted online most nights, every night he'd tell me when he was online. I like chatting but it just felt like I was expected to be there all the time at his beck and call, though he never explicitly said it. When I was reading through my emails yesterday I found an exchange from 3 years ago where I was mad because he had a go at me for just typing "goodnight" and logging off. It was so ridiculous. I said I felt like he is controlling me, I didn't do anything wrong, I said goodnight, what more was I supposed to do? But then he said I was abrupt and it was like I had hung up on him mid-sentence and I seemed really distracted, like I couldn't wait to go (I don't know if he was insinuating I had someone else in my bed that I couldn't wait to get to. I didn't). I seem to have ignored his emails as there are a few consecutive replies from him saying "I can't stop crying" "You think I am controlling, I think it is me being needy, I hate being so needy", "I don't control you, I am happy to be your equal. I feel I am less equal than you, I am trying to be more confident", "I feel as hurt as you do". Eventually I bit and said "I am not hurt, I am pissed off". Then he said he wasn't accusing me of seeing anyone else, he was sad that I logged off without saying "I love you". Which I am not obliged to say, and I didn't even fail to say it as a personal slight, it wasn't even something I gave any thought to. So I even saw it happening in front of my very eyes then and called him out on it, yet I still put up with it. I don't know why I put up with it.

The thing is I probably was distracted at the time and couldn't wait to get to bed, I looked at the dates and this was about 6 weeks before my poor lovely gran died, she lived in the same house as me and died at home so it was constantly staring me in the face. She had been really ill for a while and it was clear she was dying. So at the time he was a shoulder to cry on and was very supportive, but now I look back and he was putting all this unnecessary stress on me, making veiled accusations that I was being unfaithful to him (which even if I was, who the fuck cares? We started our relationship when he was married, he is not in a position to preach!).

Everything that I say is control, he says is love and caring. It's just so overbearing. Even a couple of weeks ago, I got home late from a class, it was about 10pm and I just wanted to eat some dinner and chill out and watch a crap soap. For some reason my phone was on silent so I missed his message saying he was online. Then he sent me a message on every other medium asking if I was ok, then when I didn't reply within 20 minutes (because I hadn't seen anything, I was busy eating), he started texting my mum asking if she had seen me and if I was ok. Jesus.

So it's been obvious to me throughout our relationship that he was being controlling, I even said it to him a million times, every time he insisted it was not control, I was never convinced by him but I still did not tell him to fuck right off. Why?

So much of this is probably identifiable. I don't care. It's only me and him that know all of this nonsense. Maybe if he ever did read it and all the responses he will accept that he is in the wrong.

Anyway, safe to say our relationship is over. HumblePie I don't think I need to change my number, he has said if I tell him to go away he will go away. I don't know why I have not told him to go away before.

Even though this relationship is over, I just feel like I have wasted 30 years of my life feeling crap, missing out on having boyfriends, proper best friends to experience things with, a decent career... it's the 30 years that are supposed to shape you as a person so you can go on to achieving what you want and be happy. I don't even know what I want, I have no idea where my life is going.

Everstrong you're not projecting at all, it all sounds remarkably familiar I've printed off forms for a new GP again, and found one that has good reviews on the NHS site and is as close as my other GP. A small step towards change. Wol I haven't been to my current practice for a couple of years so I think too much time has passed to complain. My family has equal trouble with them and my mum has made a complaint recently. So, I can't be bothered with complaining right now but if I have the misfortune of coming across inadequate healthcare again I sure will.

I feel like I am having a massive moment of clarity about everything in my life but rather than feeling liberated I just feel lost. I have nothing now, really, and don't know where I am going to find anything.

Katee - I'm pleased to read your last posts! Sounds like you're reading stuff with newly-opened eyes, eyes from which the scales have truly fallen. Keep going down this path, it's going to be the best thing for you to get out of this situation - keep the clarity and yes, stop all contact with him.

(((hugs))) and for you. :)

Thanks Thumbwitch. I don't feel like I am going anywhere but I trust all of you, you seem to have heard it all before!

Oh springy, apparently I do climax. He insists I do. I must be excellent at faking. Who knew? We had a heated discussion once about g spots (probably started by me in a fit of sexual frustration), I said they don't exist, he insisted that they do, he has experienced women's bodies and says he has definitely reached mine, I definitely do have one. Er, I think I know my own vagina better than him...

Or perhaps he is right and all women do have a g spot and he did reach mine, but if that is the case I wonder what the fuss is about.

This man sounds worse and worse and worse. But you are sounding stronger already. You can get rid of him and your life will get steadily better without him in it.
Can you trust your family to tell Mark to fuck off, as well? It will help if they are on your side with this - and if it does become necessary to involve the police don't be afraid to do so. It's no more than this disgusting, manipulative rapist deserves.

My family does not get involved with my private life. I don't like to share so I feel like I can say it's not really something I would like to discuss, the relationship has come to an end and that's that. I don't talk about things ever so this won't be unusual.

I feel the police would be taking it a bit far unless he starts harassing me. Against previous evidence, I do think he will respect my wishes. But the damage is done.

I just feel like I have wasted 30 years of my life feeling crap, missing out on having boyfriends, proper best friends to experience things with, a decent career

No, that's jus the thirty years you spend trying things out or sorting out the messes other people have put onto you. The clarity and 'blank page' feeling, that's your new start. Your world can be full of people you want in it. You value yourself enough to be selective. That's good.

OK, finally caught up.

KG, first thing you've got to do is delete whatever that app is that lets Mark talk online with you. If you want to phase him out, send him an email saying you need a bit of time alone, and that he is not to contact you or any of your family for a while. (You can decide how long this will be initially). You NEED THE HEADSPACE to sort out how you feel about things. And you need to have the internet safe to be on, it can be your support and resource.

Look up:

Sunk cost fallacy
The "shit coffee" analogy
Rape issues (including historical - there's a lot of information now, because of Yewtree, et al)

If you haven't already, watch Stephen Fry's excellent documentary about depression - what's glaring through everything you say about yourself and your situation is that you're feeling guilty for being depressed. Which is absolutely the most draining aspect of the process. Depression won't go away overnight, of course, but kicking the "guilt" part out is the single fastest bump in your healing process you can get. I definitely speak from experience here.

Speaking of "draining", although (for the record) every subsequent post of yours about Mark chilled me further, I didn't need to get past your OP before wanting to encourage you to get him out of your life, based on your description of him as "draining" - do you realise what you've done by saying that? You've made an excellent call. Don't let anybody, ANYBODY - male or female, lover or friend, family member near or close - drain you. Keep people around who are beneficial (or at least neutral), chuck people (or at least go minimal contact) who are drains.

A PP had the analogy of the broken arm. Keep it in mind: you're trying heal that broken arm by carrying heavy shopping.

Thank you PedantMarina. Useful stuff that I will look into.

I feel like a bad victim. I knew he raped me but still carried on letting him have sex with me. I was coerced into sex as.a child but was desperate for it as an adult. I'm gutted.

KateeGee, if you were reading this as we are, as something that happened to another woman, would you feel anything negative about her?

Don't be so hard on yourself. You've had a series of experiences that have made you very vulnerable, but now you're realising that and starting to change. That's a strong thing to do, even if you can only do it a little at a time.

Thank you HumblePie. I just feel like I put myself in these positions. I've always said I'd rather be in no relationship than a crap one, but I failed massively on that front. I actually started really noticing that things were more than just a bit shit when I read some advice on here and the OP was asked if a friend had told her the same situation, what would she think? So I did that to myself and the penny dropped. I'm disappointed with myself for even putting myself in the position, let alone putting up with it for so long. I think of myself as reasonably intelligent and reasonably feminist but I have been neither of those things. I can't wait to stop feeling like this.

I've had an up and down weekend.I went to dinner last night, which was ok but I felt really self conscious for some reason, my hair and makeup just made me look really weird, I spent ages getting ready. I couldn't help think that everyone else looked really pretty and smart and groomed and I just looked like a frizzy fat mess. I was invited by a girlfriend of a male friend of mine, she is really lovely and we chatted about stuff. A couple of the guys were there too. These men are probably among my closest friends, but they frequently make fun of me, passing it off as banter but it only seems to be me that this banter is directed at, so it gets a bit tiring. I wondered if they were even real friends. I had a go at one of them once and they said I am their friend, it's just having a laugh . I said how it made me feel but then I was still the butt of their jokes so gradually have taken a step back. I will still go to some things but I don't feel like they are close friends that I can go to in a crisis. Anyway, I had a bit of wine (not a lot, I don't drink much) and it made me feel awful. Physically, and also it just made me feel really really sad, everything was magnified. I felt like going away and wailing to myself. So I have decided not to have wine anymore, it doesn't add anything to my life and I won't miss it.

On a happier note I went for a nice meal today with two friends I don't get to see much, which was lovely and chilled. I've eaten pretty sensibly, and I've done lots of dancing. So on balance I think I have been quite in control this weekend.

Mark has sent me a few text messages throughout the weekend. He had an optional operation yesterday and was texting me updates. I didn't reply. I just thought, how do you think this is right? Three days ago you said I was partly responsible for what happened by, using these exact words, "allowing me to control you" and then think I can forget it and make small talk about your recovery from a medical procedure? He really doesn't think anything was wrong in our relationship, everything was just a misunderstanding and me not being assertive enough. I didn't want to fan any flames by asking him not to text me, nothing in it was harrassing, I thought it was easier to just ignore. I can't deal with any drama by being confrontational. I am more relaxed this way I think.

This is turning into a secret very very public diary. I think this is years of pent-up ranting that accumulated in years of having no one to talk to.

Keep talking to us. Its good that you can differentiate between the people who make you happy and those who don't.

I will HumblePie, babbling away to the internet is helping me massively and it's only been 6 days! Last Sunday was horrendous and I was at my lowest yet again, I feel much better today if a little scared and sad.

I realised the reason I would not admit my relationship was abusive, the reason why no onlookers would guess it was, and why Mark refuses to believe it was, is that nothing on the surface looked abusive. Our sex life was behind closed doors and that was screwed up from the start, but apart from that it looked like he adored me. He would always say I am beautiful and amazing and all these things, . But it didn't make me feel amazing, it made me feel suffocated. He would do thoughtful things for me which I still think were genuine and nice and I still think about them fondly. He never hit me (though I thought he was going to at one point earlier this year, when he got angry at something he read on my phone. That's the point that I realised I can't live like this anymore). But I've read some horrific situations on here that people are living through, and I didn't go through anything nearly as bad. He never belittled me or mocked me or anything like that. But the way he behaves is so at odds with what he says. For example he said he wouldn't control who I saw, he didn't, but he would make it into such a massive thing that I felt bad about living a normal life. And if I confronted him about it he would say he just really loves me, so I should forgive him. Ugh it's so depressing.

It's almost like he is obsessed with me and wants me all to himself, but knows if he said anything like that I would have been out the door. But because he only says "nice" things, or things that he think come out of love, it doesn't count as abusive. I thought love was supposed to be a nice thing but it was just stifling.

Glad you had a good couple of days.

I think you can get by now how manipulative Mark is. He doesn't have to say things outright, all he has to do is make your life miserable until you comply. And then he gets to tell you he didn't really control you. So it's all your fault.

Fucking scary that is. Seriously. But less so since you're seeing through it.

Don't like the sound of your male "friends". Consider reasserting yourself, and/or taking a step back. Practice the Mumsnet head-tilt and "did you mean to be so rude?"

Oh I have tried that. I always point out when they are being unfair to me, because I think it is important to stand up for myself. But somehow I am always overreacting, apparently. It's just really irritating to constantly be told I am wrong, especially when I am 100% certain I am right. They even try to argue with me about subjects which I definitely have more expertise in than they do, because I have a bloody degree in it! But I can't possibly be right, probably because I am a girl.

I just feel like whatever I say, they will say the opposite just to catch me out. Whether it's a fact, or my opinion which I am entitled to have. If I say, let's imagine, that I like cheese more than ham, they'd say "but you're wrong because xyz, and three months ago you ordered a ham sandwich so you're a hypocrite and failing at logic" which leaves me feeling WTF? I was just expressing a not very important opinion. It's like they always want to play devil's advocate and make me argue my case and it's exhausting. I have started saying excuse me, you're being rude and actively trying to make me look stupid, why? Of course the answer is because it's funny to wind me up, and anyway stop being hysterical and oversensitive .

So I started disengaging with them a few months ago and they started saying "why have you left us? It's not the same without you!" Or "you've been really distant lately" "why aren't you coming to this event? We really want you to be there", so I then think maybe they do like me. But I am sick of being the whipping boy.

They still try to pull me into their banter with things that they know will piss me off (usually something vaguely sexist, as of course there is nothing funnier than making someone with feminist beliefs get irrationally angry). They usually do it by including me in an email or messenger chain, even if I remove myself they start a new chain. Rarely face to face. I try to ignore and not get involved. I don't always succeed. I just think ffs leave me alone, if you want to make fun of me do it behind my back. I don't think it's enough of a crime to delete them from my life but it does grate after a while.

God even my friends have slight bullying and gaslighting tendencies. I don't half pick em. I just want to know some normal people!

Oh yeah and "it was a joke", get out clause for everything.

I should probably ditch these people too but then I will have no one. I really do wonder sometimes if the problem is me, maybe everyone else is normal and I am overreacting. No one else seems to have the same thing as me.

Pre bed rant full of errors. Time to sleep!

I had a friend who was a bit of a bully. She had been bullied herself at school so maybe she thought it was a normal way to go on, I don't know. But anyway - she used to punch me in the arm if she got upset about something (not just me, other friends too) and it was hard! Until the day I told her to stop it or I'd punch her back because it bloody hurt! She didn't do it again (looked quite taken aback too).

Later on, whenever I saw her she would make a joke about a personal situation, trying to say it was my fault when it most definitely was about the other person involved. It got extremely tiring and after a while I told her how bloody tedious it was and if she didn't stop I wouldn't be talking to her again. It did stop, she never did it again, but our relationship has never quite been the same since, possibly because "teasing banter" is part of how she relates to people and so she no longer really knew how to deal with me, I don't know. But I'd rather our friendship was downgraded a little than put up with the constant "banter" (which was really just rude and derogatory).

I still have other friends who aren't like that though! BUT - and this is an important but - I may have been a bit like that myself as a younger person, so maybe they thought I was just ok with the "banter" and carried on. I'm not saying that you are or ever have been "like that" - but if you try to smile through it, they do just carry on. I found the only way to stop it is to actually have a strop about it - but it does affect how they see you. :(

Now, on the other points - I have just seen this video that I want you to watch. It is about sex offenders from a psychotherapist who deals with them, and it's very interesting in terms of your case with Mark - I think you'll recognise him in the second type she describes. If you ever needed professional validation of his appalling behaviour, here it is.

Thanks Thumbwitch. Depressing video that hits the nail on the head exactly. I think that's the problem, he doesn't see it as an assault, more "accidentally misunderstanding and crossing a line", the same as every single time that he touched me without me wanting him to. And if I would protest I'd just be met with "but I love you" and "I can't believe you are accusing me of this" which makes me doubt myself and think I am the one with the problem, I am the one who is overreacting (exactly like my friends say. There is a theme here...). So I feel like a bitch for saying something makes me feel like shit. There is so much messed up with this.

I know I feel like it's a problem, and the law says it's a problem, and the good women of the Mumsnet Relationship board confirm that it is a problem and I absolutely do not have to put up with it, and all that should be enough. But I really think that Mark truly believes that what he did was at worst a bit of a mistake, and because he wants us to live a life together madly in love he doesn't think it could possibly be bad. I don't think he believes he is abusive, and is horrified at the thought that he could be. I suppose that is not my problem. Before the "you didn't put the boundaries back in place" comment, I suggested if he is having difficulties coming to terms with things, maybe he should have some sort of counselling too (I said this as a friend). But he dismissed it saying "then what? It won't mean you will want me again, there is no point". And I said "no, not to win me back, just to be a better person, get some peace and learn to not make the same mistake again", but he dismissed it.

I don't know why I care, he is an abuser at the end of the day and the important thing is that I have freed myself from it. I guess it scares me, the idea that it's easy to spot an abuser who is outwardly nasty, but if they are acting nice, and truly believe they are nice, it knocks you out of nowhere. I don't know who to trust anymore.

Even the people I mix with would probably say it's just a grey area, it's not really abuse. My friends and acquaintances have discussed this in hypothetical situations, and the overriding consensus is that women are usually at fault, if it was that bad they would just get out. They would say if you are in a bed with someone one thing is bound to lead to another, don't put yourself in the situation in the first place if you care about it that much. These are people who label themselves as liberal, non-sexist, modern thinking good men (and women). But then the things they say casually just make me really depressed. They don't know a thing about my history do probably don't realise how cutting it is to me, and they wouldn't say it if they knew it was hurting me directly. But that's not the point. If you don't want to be a twat, don't say anything twattish. It starts with things like saying "god that man is such a chump for letting his bride keep her own surname, he should just make her take his", or "birds don't know what they are talking about", to then making jokes about Jimmy Saville and all manner of horrible things. And if I try to pull them up on it, without directly relating it to me, I'm met with "it was only a joke, calm down", and "that's a bit of an overreaction, you're being hysterical". Again. Once I said something about bad relationships, completely logical and fair, and one of them said "what do you know about relationships?". A lot, actually, but funnily enough I don't feel like you're the kind of sensitive soul I can discuss it with. Again I don't think they believe they are being malicious, they think they are being witty, clever, sending up stereotypes, satirical, I don't know what the hell they think. But it's hurtful, and I struggle to see when people are joking and when they aren't.

This has just reminded me, actually, of a similar thing when I was in 6th form. We were looking at magazines and a girl said "I don't think they should use skinny models, it causes eating disorders". I said actually that's not true, eating disorders are a bit more complicated than that. And she shot me down with "What do you know? You don't realise the pressure these people are under, you can't say what they are feeling". I would hazard a guess that I knew a bit more than her, as I had been in therapy for 2 years and read countless books about eating disorders by this point. But of course I couldn't say that, for fear of making the other person feel bad, or for fear of ridicule ("How can you have an eating disorder? You're still fat"), or just because I don't want to broadcast my personal issues. And anyway, it's not the point, I was correct, whether I had personal experience of the issue or not. It's like people think I am stupid, they either question my knowledge or authority, or make fun of me. And then if I say anything the problem is with me. If someone tells you you are stupid/fat/whatever, enough, you start to believe it. And then if I say "you have made me feel stupid", they say the problem is with me and my reaction, and I'm upsetting them by accusing them of being mean. I don't know why they think this about me, but it has taken its toll on the old self esteem. I've just noticed this is a massive pattern in my life. It's happened with friends, and now it's happened on a bigger and a far more damage scale with Mark. I guess it's because I don't have a dominating personality, and people that do seek out those who they think will be a pushover. I hope I am not a pushover, I try to stand my ground and be fair, but it's like people don't even consider my arguments, they always shoot me down with a personal attack or a joke.

Clearly today is a day for navel gazing.

Honey, you definitely need new friends! The ones you have sound like a bunch of ignorant, arrogant arses! I expect they think Frankie Boyle is hilarious too, eh

It also sounds like they all have a bit of the "tall poppy syndrome" - don't like it when people seem to know more or be a bit different in their thinking, so cut them down to size with a well-aimed barb. I've said this recently on MN but can't remember where so will say it again - I used to work with a bunch of people just out of University. Some of the girls were unbelievable in their voluntary "self dumbing-down" - pretending to lisp, looking all girly and helpless, saying things like "oh I don't know anything about politics, it's all so complicated and I never vote" . And then one of them started to go out with one of the more intelligent blokes there and took an interest in his interests, which included word games etc. - and when she used a word that was perfectly ok, in context, but out of their "norm" the rest of them scoffed at her, shot her down and told her that it wasn't a real word. Of course it was but they didn't like her stepping outside their established "we're all fick innit cos that's wot gurlies like us shuld be to get the blokes" mode. It was really weird to watch!

You need a fair whack of self-belief and confidence to stand up to these cut-you-down types - and a good set of sharp comebacks. I find that asking them how they would feel if this was their mother/daughter/sister/other female relative can make them stop and think a bit more; although usually they'll say something trite and stupid like "that's different" - er, how exactly? Especially any jokes about abuse. Ask them if they'd be happy for their female relative to be in that situation. It's not fighting fire with fire, more tipping water on their "humorous banter" (which is almost never humorous to anyone with an above-average IQ, I find).

I've signed up for the online Freedom Programme. I'm reading "Living with the Dominator and I feel like a walking textbook case study

Teenage girls who grow up witnessing abuse could have eating disorders due to poor self-image or too many mealtimes marred by violence - tick

Many women on my programme have been sexually abused as children - tick

unable to refuse sex with boys, selfimage is too poor to believe they have the right to say no - tick

A depressing chunk of the bully and sexual controller chapters - tick. Though rarely obviously aggressive - always subtle coercion, sulking, making it feel like I've done wrong. It mentions sexual controllers using tender lovemaking after violent episodes. Mark wasn't violent but sometimes I'd feel emotionally beaten and end up just giving in to sex just to pacify him or because I couldn't bear arguing anymore

Not saying controlling words but just acting in a way that gave me no escape. Something in the opening chapter about aggressive driving reminded me of a time he picked me up for the airport. I didn't rush to hug and kiss him (I hate doing that in public and I was with friends, who didn't know about my relationship). He was fuming, breathing really angrily, threw his sunglasses onto the dashboard when we got to the car and then proceeded to drive down the motorway revving the engine and speeding by quite a bit. I was terrified and said I was frightened and he yelled "what are you frightened about?". I burst into tears. By the time we got off the motorway took my seat belt off and grabbed my bag as I just wanted to jump out of the car and get the bus and get the hell away. He said not to be silly, in a "there, there, it's ok" kind of way, and persuaded me to put my seat belt on because it wasn't safe. Then when we got to my house he went up to my room and started (tearless) sobbing, saying "I just really missed you while you were away, I felt like you were embarrassed of me because you didn't want to hug me", and I ended up saying sorry because he was so upset. Then we had sex. So awful. I wish I had the guts to get rid of him then instead of wasting nearly 3 more years there were so many other horrible events that I just glossed over. I've never spoken a word about them to anyone. Putting them all together and typing them out makes it harder to ignore.

Oh god now I have burst into tears at Sheridan Smith singing "anyone who had a heart" in the Cilla biopic I can't stand Cilla but she's set me off. Floodgates opened.