My difficult youth has caught up with me and is ruining every relationship I have

[KateeGee]

I don't know where to start really.

I guess I had a troubled childhood but always kind of plodded on with things. I am now 30 and various recent events have destroyed the facade and I have been in a bit of a breakdown since February. I feel like there is no point to existing. I am seeing a counsellor but an hour a week gets eaten up by me discussing minutiae of certain issues and I feel like I am avoiding talking about things. I don't want to open the floodgates. Whenever I talk about things I end up feeling worse. I don't even know why I am posting here. For ideas, or someone to tell me it will go away? I don't know.

I'm not even sure why I am posting this in Relationships really. I lurk/sometimes contribute here but have been reading a lot, some things have been really helpful for me. I guess all my troubles come from relationships and I feel like I have no one. I feel so lonely and like there is no point to my existence, I actually wish I could vanish.

I've been doing a lot of thinking recently and have come to the conclusion that I feel so unlikeable and lonely that I am desperate and do anything to be liked. And then I get shat on, and then feel even less likeable. I have no close friends - people don't seem to hate me but they don't like me either - I try hard to be nice, be reliable, be enthusiastic, have fun, but I just feel like I am on the periphery and no one actually chooses to be my friend. I get invited to things only if I am needed to make up numbers, because I am reliable. But otherwise I get dropped very easily. And I try to be thick skinned and philosophical about it, but when it happens all the time it really hurts. I try to not moan about it but privately I feel crushed. And I have no one to talk to because no one is close to me.

My mum is not the kind of mother I can have a heart to heart with, for various reasons. My dad is not around, he left the scene when I was a toddler.

I don't know why I am the way I am. I used to be quite confident and outgoing but gradually I have become painfully shy and self conscious. Things have happened over time, I have listed some below, but I have tried to get over them and move on, and I don't see why things that happened ten, twenty or more years ago should still affect me now. I am sensible and rational so should be able to move on, so I don't want to just put it down to the past. And even if it is because of the past, that doesn't help me get over it. I just want to know how I can live a life where I don't hate every fibre of my being, I am really struggling at the moment.

I was sexually abused by a cousin when I was young, under 10.i say abused but I don't remember protesting, and he was only about 18 months older than me, so I don't know if it was abuse or just a kid messing around. I just know I feel awful about it now. I know it's not my fault etc, but I just feel so crushed and ashamed about it.

I had a horrible emotionally abusive bully of a stepdad from the age of 11 to 17, I don't have the wherewithal to go into detail but he was a horrible person. There was finally one awful incident one Christmas and I basically told my mum she had to divorce him. Which she did.

I did ok at school and went to uni, I kind of got on with life but never made any close friends and always felt a bit on the sidelines. I lost my virginity (not counting the childhood sex incidents) when I was overseas at the age of 22. I always had an interest in sex, I wasn't scared of it or anything, but I didn't have much interest from men. I slept with a man who asked me out when I was overseas. In hindsight he kind of used me but I wasn't too fussed, I was moving back to England shortly after to finish my studies.

I was still wanting some kind of sexual attention and ended up on some chat websites. I was incredibly silly, looking back, but I just felt so lonely and sad that talking to people online was a distraction.

I eventually started chatting online to a much older guy, let's call him Mark, who I seemed to get on well with. I really felt we clicked. It then transpired he was in an unhappy marriage. I am not at all proud of myself, in fact I am ashamed of what I did, especially after reading this board at length for the last year or so. I was the other woman and I did an awful thing, I know that and nothing anyone says can make me feel worse about it. I would never do it now.

But I felt so low at the time I convinced myself it didn't matter, and we met for dinner. There was no pressure but we ended up going back to his hotel and sleeping together 3 times. So far, so seedy. He seemed really patient and kind to me and we got on. I made my boundaries clear, no unprotected sex etc. But the next morning we both woke up and he said he wanted me again, and we had sex again. I was so naive and inexperienced that I didn't realise he didn't put a condom on, I was horrified when I eventually realised what happened. There was no danger of pregnancy but there was all the rest. He apologised. We carried on the relationship, I carried on saying I didn't want unprotected sex, he carried on doing it anyway. I brought it up now and again but the response varied between "we've done it now, might as well carry on, I don't have any infections so it's fine" and "you need to be more assertive, you are in control, I won't do anything you don't want to". So I kind of gave up fighting about it. He was only the second person I ever slept with as a consenting adult and I didn't

Around the same time I saw another man who also pretty much made me have unprotected sex with him. It wasn't violent or anything, but I kept saying I didn't want to but he overpowered me and did it anyway. I was upset and it was painful and horrible. And then all of a sudden he turned really nasty, ignored me, said he didn't want to see me. I was upset but had to forget it and move on.

Mark then decided to dump me. I felt sad but I accepted it, I knew what we were doing was stupid and wrong, and I should move on. I did, I started seeing someone else, Joe, who lived a couple of hours away from me. I was really nervous as I still was so inexperienced even though I was nearly 24 at this stage. I had never had a proper boyfriend. But Joe was sweet, he knew about my affair and that I regretted it, but didn't make me feel bad about it. I liked him but my shyness was so crippling. Nonetheless he was patient and quite quickly we started a physical relationship. He pushed things quite far, he liked spanking me and things, but I never felt uncomfortable, and if I ever said I didn't want to do something he would stop straight away. I didn't hate it at all, it was the best sexual relationship I have ever had, but now when I think about it I feel like I am bad for having enjoyed it.

Mark contacted me and asked me how I was. I said I was bearing up ok, I respected his decision etc. He sensed I was sad, asked me why. So I ended up telling him all about the reasons I hate myself, including the things that happened to me when I was a girl. He is the only person I have ever told. He said this is the reason why he liked me, he felt he was destined to meet me to look after me and protect me and blah blah blah. Now I am not a stupid, needy, naive pre-MN 23 year old I realise I fell into a trap of a manipulator, but I did not see this at the time.

I told him about Joe, that it was early days but I met someone. He said it was good and he was happy for me, but then over a few weeks he started saying he felt really sad, he felt like I was cheating on him (!); eventually it got to one night when I was at Joe's house, and out of the blue Mark texts me to say he has told his wife about our affair. That weekend was awful, and ended up with Mark meeting me in Joe's town as I was about to get the train home. He said "I wanted to see you, if you said you didn't want to see me again I was going to kill myself", and showed me a couple of boxes of tablets. I was distraught and ended up taking him to see a doctor and stuff. Somehow our relationship resumed. He saw a counsellor and said he decided that I was the best thing in his life, so he was going to continue seeing me and telling me he loves me.

Every time I tried to cool it off he would come out with another breakdown. Every time I went to see Joe he would have a mini breakdown and say how it felt like something was stabbing him in the heart. After a couple of years Joe moved on, stopped contacting me without telling me he was done, and found someone younger and prettier and probably less stupid and shy than me; I can't blame him.

I never asked Mark to leave his wife or anything like that. He would sometimes say he wished he could find a way for us to work as a three. Writing this down I realise it is so ludicrous and I was so dumb to believe/make myself believe any of it. But I really liked Mark as a person, feel he understood me and was a good friend.

I saw various other people who I met online, I met and had one night stands with about ten different men in about 18 months. But they all did exactly the same thing - seemed to be keen, wanted to meet, were charming, slept with me and then ignored me. I know it was stupid to expect anything more, I know it was stupid to sleep with someone on the first meeting with them, I know I did everything wrong so kind of deserved what I got. But every single person, besides Joe and Mark, who has ever shown an interest in me, has lost that interest after having sex once. Which makes me feel utterly worthless. The sex was usually rubbish anyway, and the men not that great, but I just feel so unlikeable.

Mark did eventually leave his wife, I said I hope it's not because of me. He said no, the marriage had gone sour before I arrived on the scene and was doomed to fail anyway. So he was a free man, but I still didn't want to commit myself to him.

He would not openly say he didn't want me speaking to other men but if I did he'd make little comments about being hurt. I met a guy at work who I was not at all interested in, but went for dinner with just as friends, and Mark was furious about it. He'd try and manipulate me out of it by coming to pick me up even though it was well out of his way to do so. It caused such a horrible atmosphere and made me cry, and I ended up apologising about it.

He still ignored my requests about using contraception. Worse, one morning I was awake, he started to touch me but I said I didn't want to have sex, he carried on touching me. My legs were clamped together and he basically forced them apart and had sex with me anyway. I was quite shocked and not moving, he said he found it hard to have sex with me if I am not responsive. He finished, left for work and I burst into tears. I know this was wrong. I brought this up recently and he asked if I was accusing him of rape, I said no, he got really upset and said he is not a rapist, he would never hurt me, and then I ended up apologising again. I know this is really messed up. He acknowledges that this event happened, and he says his reason for carrying on is that he thought I was just tired. He knows that reason is not good enough. And the more I think about it the more devastated I am that he did this to me knowing all the other times I have been used for sex.

I had enough of his controlling behaviour when he looked through my phone and misunderstood some messages that he saw, I was furious at him invading my privacy and told him our relationship was over. This is when my breakdown started, I basically cried for 3 whole days about everything that I have cocked up in my life. He was there for me and said even though our relationship was over, he was still my best friend and would help me. He got the ball rolling with organising me to see a counsellor, took a day off work to sit with me while I cried and cried. So I am grateful to him for being my friend, and he really is my only friend. But he still longs to be my boyfriend/husband, even though I have told him that's not what I want. It makes it difficult because he still wants to hold my hand and touch me and kiss me, and I feel so guilty for saying no.

I feel torn because having read a lot recently I realise that my relationship with Mark was at best a bit controlling, and I should really ditch this person altogether, but I really do feel like he is my only friend. He is starting to respect my decision about not continuing our relationship, but he still laments what could have been which is draining. I am pretty sure we will not start a romantic/sexual relationship again.

But I have never felt so alone in my life. I am struggling to carry on.

This post is getting a bit long and nonsensical now, I think I will leave it there. I don't know what I am asking.

Yes Thumbwitch, we are all from the same university but it's like they can't stand me having a strong opinion, or being right when they are wrong. Yes they are possibly more clever than me but no need to constantly patronise me. Sometimes we have a good time and I do like a healthy debate as much as the next person, but there are more and more things where I think what they say is awful, joke or not. I have suggested they think how they'd feel if their loved one was bearing the brunt, but their girlfriends/sisters/ AN Other female friend loves a bit of banter, they have a sense of humour (ergo I am humourless). And if I can't take the heat, keep my mouth shut, basically. They'd deny all this... it's just a bit of fun.

I wish there was some kind of new friend/boyfriend supermarket.

Your friends sound as thick as shit! Then you say they are more clever than you !

Yes, I was going to say much what Springy has just said - they certainly don't sound cleverer than you, far from it! Thick as shit and twice as arrogant.

And no, asking them how they'd feel if their female loved one was on the end of their banter isn't exactly what I meant - I meant ask them how they would feel if it was their female relly who was the one being abused, the one with the eating disorder, the one who had been raped. in other words, the one in the actual situation about which they are being so "witty"; not about their "humour less" chat.

Ah yes, I see. Then in that case yes, of course it's different because their loved ones weren't asking for a difficult life I suppose. They would just be falling on misfortune rather than creating their own.

I do try and argue that it's not as cut and dried. When I said I was unhappy as a child they sniffed "what could you be unhappy about at 12? All I worried about waa computer games". The best I could muster in reply was "I guess we had very different upbringings".

I don't think they are thick. I do think they live in a middle class bubble of stability and perfection and assume that everyone they deal with will be the same. The people with problems are "other people", which kind of gives them free reign to mock, even though it goes against their supposedly respectful philosophy.

Another late night! It's taken me about two hours to make my bed, I washed the sheets two days ago and have been sleeping in the spare room since as I could not be bothered to put clean ones on. It was a tiny goal for today, finally made it. My room is a mess but I realise that is because my mind has been all over the place. I will try to do a bit of decluttering slowly over time, it's such a big mountain to face.

We have different definitions of thick, probably!
I'm not talking just about intellectual capacity, but the ability to think - which also involves being able to see other people's point of view, step outside of your own experience and view things as others might see them, accept that you don't know everything (one thing I cannot abide is wilful ignorance, and the whole "well it's never happened to me or anyone I know therefore it isn't possible" attitude).
That there is thickness, in my view, however intellectually able they supposedly are.

Well done on the achievement! I loathe changing beds as re-making them puts a fair bit of strain on my back (they're nearly all up against a wall and pretty immovable so I have to lean and reach a lot)

I'm not good at tidying and decluttering myself but maybe every time you leave your room, take one thing with you that shouldn't be there and dispose of it elsewhere?

I'm having a big wobble today, I don't know why. Actually I probably do. I haven't had any messages from Mark today. I realise this is probably success but I don't feel free, I just feel really sad. He is really the only person who would text me, all the time, and I can't say that wasn't nice. We would chat every day about funny stories in the news, how the commute to work went, the weather, anything. Just small talk. I feel so pathetic and needy, I don't want to say I miss the attention but I do, I miss having a companion to chat to. Now I have no one. The best I could do was a man who abused me.

Thumbwitch today I took a small bag of rubbish out, it has been sat on my floor for two weeks. Small victories

Give yourself a break. You've been through so much. Soooo much. You are not the only one to accepts rags rather than nothing at all.

Please, try having some compassion, see how it fits? Just try it, imagine this was someone else; specifically step beyond revulsion.

I am reminded of the personal boundary model: a house, with a fence around it and a gate; no-one comes within that fence, through that gate, without our express permission: the condition for entry is respect. You have had no fence, no gate; your fences and gate have been routinely trashed, nonexistent. You have been routinely trained to have no fence or gate, that you didn't deserve one, you had no right. People have come in and out, doing what they like, using you and trashing you for their own ends with no thought for you, your dignity, your integrity, your humanity. How dare they, the shits!

Then along comes Mr smooth guy, who looks different but is doing the same the others have done . he smooches you, and that can be very seductive and comforting when your soul is parched of the good stuff. He smooches you to get his way. Have some compassion that you have been so trashed you crave comfort, even though you know it doesn't come from a healthy, respectful place. (He also probably knows you well enough to know that radio silence will hurt you, put you in a spin.)

So, yes, you are not the only one to have your head and heart turned by a predator. Your friends, btw, remind me of the 'damn fine filly' bloke in 4 weddings. Thick as shit.

[Message edited by MNHQ to remove identifying info]

Katee - if there is one common thing that I have seen in every case where women escape their abusers, even when they've had to run to refuges in just the clothes on their backs, it's that they miss their partner. Because he's been a part of their lives for a long time (usually) and missing that interaction is normal.

Abusers mostly have a good side to them, or no one would ever get with them in the first place - and that is what keeps women attached to them - the hope that that "good man" will come to the fore and stay there. Of course you miss the good things, who wouldn't? And you miss the attention, that's normal.

But you also get to miss out on the snide comments, the controlling factors, the sexual assaults, the emotional blackmail etc etc - so focus on the bad things that you're no longer tied to rather than focusing on the good bits - it's easier to deal with then.

And woohoo! for getting a small bag of rubbish out, it's a start! One small step at a time, you'll still get there in the end :)

Thanks both, I know you are right.

springy that's quite shocking. Even a vicar can't be trusted.

I am sorry, I have failed on the no contact front. I am disappointed with myself. Nothing bad happened, I do not feel like I am doubting myself or wanting to change my mind or anything. But I failed. I have spoken to my counsellor about this and she said maybe I am not ready to cut him off, and that is ok. It may take a few goes. I'd rather do it when I am ready and gradually than keep failing. Though I have failed, I don't feel at square one again, I still have a very clear mind.

Too tired to think anymore today.

Katee - you haven't "failed". As your therapist says, you're just not ready to go completely NC. It's like when people give up smoking - sometimes they'll slip and have a fag - but it's what they do after that that counts. If they then think "Oh well I've blown it now, might as well go back to 20 a day", then they'll never be free of their smoking habit; but if they say "oh well, it was just one, now I can go back to giving up" then they'll likely be free of it soon enough.

Same for you - it's just one slip, and you'll probably make more, but so long as you see them as just slips, not a reason to give up completely and go back to where you were before, then that's absolutely fine. No one is perfect!

Yes Thumbwitch, least of all me!

I spoke with Mark at length and felt really different. For the first time, I felt no guilt, didn’t waver or make concessions, apologise or feel like he was trying to persuade me. I was clear that he has damaged me, there is no excuse for it, and really I shouldn't have contact with him at all. I said that there is no question that he has been hugely abusive. He apologised, said he is horrified. I am not about to fall back into his arms (ever) but I do believe he is genuinely remorseful. He asked me what I think his problems are, I gave some examples but said that they are no longer my problem. He might need help, but not from me. We cleared the air and he realises that I am not going to change my mind, and that he needs to change to be a better person, not to win me back. I feel much better.

I had a good counselling session today where I spoke a lot about breaking contact with Mark. I mentioned that we speak pretty much every day and my counsellor said she didn't realise the relationship was ao intense. Therefore it's understandable that I feel confused and unsettled, so if I am not ready yet it's ok. I am not at risk of any further harm - I am so much more sure of myself now that he cannot hurt me. He is absolutely clear that he is not to touch or pester me, or say or do anything that I have asked him not to. If he does, he knows I will walk away and take it further if he harasses me. So I feel like I hold the reins now. I am 100% certain that I can no longer be emotionally abused by him. I feel strong enough now that I will immediately see any stunts for what they are, and will cut him off then. He knows I am serious about this, whereas before he always thought I'd come round if he persisted.

So I am going for nicotine replacement rather than cold turkey, as I am less likely to give up. I know the sensible thing to do is stop all contact with him but I don't have the strength at the moment. I feel more in control if I keep him at arm's length. If I tell him never to contact me again I think it is less predictable and I don't think I can deal with that right now, it's a step at a time.

Plus, uber drip feed, we are supposed to be going on holiday next week. I have been stressed about what to do about it. I've spent a lot of money on it and am still looking forward to going (did somebody say sunk costs fallacy?). I offered to buy him out but he would still turn up at the airport. I've considered not going but I'd feel resentful and angry and sad. I know the sensible advice would be cut my losses and not go, no amount of money is worth abuse.

But I am going to go anyway. I am not in any danger if I go - I'm fairly sure he won't cross any lines and if he does, it just confirms everything for me. I don't think anything he does can hurt me now. He knows he doesn't deserve the time of day from me and will never have sex with me or be my boyfriend, but wants to continue being friends, and to tell the truth I feel the same. I actually feel more in control and positive about our relationship than when the holiday was booked months ago, so I feel comfortable going. We might even have a nice time. If not, it is a country I am familiar with and I can speak the language, so I can ditch him if I need to. I know this is against all advice, but nothing bad will happen.

As for why I want to be friends with a man who raped and abused me, well that's going to take a lot more therapy amd mumsnet reading. Maybe Stockholm Syndrome was right...

It's strange, when I started this thread I felt very low and everything was getting on top of me. I didn't see Mark as a big issue, I thought "I have a bit of an issue with a friend who used to be a lover but won't accept that I have dumped him", but deep down I knew it was worse than that, I was minimising and in denial. I already feel much better now I have admitted it to myself, the rest is timing. It may well be a stupid mistake to go on holiday, but I have made enough stupid mistakes, one more won't change anything.

I'm just typing out the arguments that go round and round my head. I'd love to stop thinking for just a while!

Sounds like you've made a lot of progress, actually!

You're right, it's not ideal to still be going on holiday with Mark but I can see why you would think it's ok. I would (and I hate myself for even saying this!) make sure you never drink too much to be under par, because you know from past experience that you can't trust him, and I wouldn't guarantee for one second that his horror and apologies have actually changed his outlook that much - so stay in control, for your own benefit, so that if he tries it on you can tell him to fuck the fuck off and he can't, at any point, try to blame you because you "weren't clear enough" with your boundaries, or any other such guff.

As to why you feel the need to stay friends with him - well. You've been friends etc. with him for a long while, it's hard to cut people out "just like that" - and like I said in my last post, even women escaping from violent abusive husbands miss them at first! This is your life, this is the way it is and has been for some time - so cutting out such a big part of it is major surgery, really! Makes sense that you need to just snip at the edges (we're back to that Wall again, taking down one brick at a time from the edges)

Try that as a concept - reduce contact by stages. Start by not always contacting him when you feel like it - but if the need gets too strong, then let yourself after you've tried not to at least 3 times, then at least 5 times, and so on. Eventually it will be easier and you'll manage it.
Then stop taking his calls, responding to his messages - same thing.
Then once you get back off holiday, do the same thing with seeing him. In fact, while you're on holiday, try and do some things on your own - because you know the language, you'll be able to get around by yourself, so it will help with your confidence etc.

In the meantime, the difference in your posts is palpable, so good job so far - just keep going on the path you're on now. :)

Dear diary MN,

Feeling a bit low and jumbled at the moment, so thought I'd write it out for therapy.

Thanks Thumbwitch for your wisdom. Yes a good idea to do stuff alone on the holiday, I will be sure to not drink too much, this won't be hard as I am a lightweight and don't drink that often anyway.

It's funny, Mark always goes on about how he's never seen me really drunk and thinks it odd that we've not been drunk together in 8 years. I've certainly had alcohol with him but never felt the need to get drunk so never really thought about it. He kind of says it jokingly but if I say I have been out with friends and was drunk he'd say "ah... I've never seen you drunk" as if I'm doing it as some sort of personal slight. I don't like hangovers at all, I don't come from a family that drinks a lot (we'll do it on special occasions but not routinely), I can take or leave booze. I don't know why he presses the issue. Surely it's a good thing that I don't feel the need to be drunk with him? In the last couple of years he's beem saying more and more that he wants to go out clubbing with me and see me completely wasted. It grated after a while. I would have loved to go out to a club for some relaxed dancing with him but there was always this weird pressure that put me off. It's like he believed that when we were not together I was leading some single party girl lifestyle, and he said he was envious of me having fun and wanted to do those things with me. But it couldn't be further from the truth. I'm boring! I've had three clubbing nights this year. I like it now and again, but it's not my lifestyle. It's like I've said to him a thousand times, he likes the idea of me but doesn't consider the reality. And when I don't conform to his fantasy version he wouldn't be horrible, but I'd still feel inadequate, I would get upset, raise my concerns and then we'd end up having a disagreement.

None of this matters now as we are over, but I do worry a bit about future relationships (as if I will ever have a relationship again. I'm not keen at the moment, obviously, and can't see when I will ever meet anyone). I don't know who to trust. Most of the men I have been with have treated me like trash. I don't believe all men are bad but I don't trust my judgement. And I've been reading the Freedom Programme stuff so know what to look out for, but worry about being too harsh. Like with the above. The paranoid and distrusting bit of me wonders if Mark just wanted to get me drunk in a club so I would be more easily controlled, or so he could show off the fact that he had a girlfriend 20 years his junior (not that I am a hot piece of ass worthy of showing off)... I think he genuinely did just want to do it as something nice to do as a couple, but there is a niggle. Now I am seeing the terrible nits clearly, I am starting to question the good bits as well.

I suppose it doesn't matter now whether it's a wider part of controlling behaviour. I try to take people at face value, but now I am always thinking about red flags.

I saw Mark at the weekend (thought I'd test drive it rather than dive into a week abroad after a huge falling out), and it was fine. I didn't spend much time with him as I was busy, but we ate dinner and watched some tv. He didn't try anything on and we both know the second he does he'd be out the door. There was a massive elephant in the room and we didn't talk about anything vaguely emotional, but that was ok. I am certain he can't talk me round, and fairly confident he won't bother trying to.

My eating has been off the scale this week and weekend. I don't even have triggers anymore, I just binge through habit . I try so hard but it's like I am on autopilot and a, watching myself through a window. I don't get any pleasure doing it, I feel disgusting planning it, disgusted while doing it and feel disgusted with myself afterwards. So why do I do it. Christ knows. I haven't made myself sick for at least a week but I feel so huge amd gross amd unhealthy. I felt so much better when I ate wholesome food and in moderation and in control, I don't know why I am incapable of getting back on the horse. There are so many things to deal with, but I can't do the simple task of feeding myself sensibly and looking after my health.

Hi Katee - if it's any consolation, and I don't know whether or not it will be, I'm having the same problem with food and I don't have an eating disorder, never have had. But I am getting progressively tubbier around the middle again, despite losing over a stone and several inches when I did the low-carb Bootcamp at the beginning of this year and feeling so much better - and it's all down to chocolate, crisps and late-night snacking. I know this. I know it so well it's ridiculous - half the time I don't even actively feel hungry for the food, but I still end up shoving it into me anyway, hating myself for doing it every bite of the way, and still finishing it. Whole tube of not-Pringles tonight. :(

I should have started boot camp again yesterday but DH is away and it's hard to go low-carbing when I have to look after both boys all day by myself (It's school holidays here), especially when we're out and about and they want ice cream and milkshakes and so on.

But it doesn't matter how much I tell myself not to do it, how much I'm hating that I'm doing it, I still do it. And don't enjoy it. It's a very weird compunction!

As for the Mark situation - sounds like you're still improving on your knowledge of the whole picture, and realising that there has been so much more going on that was previously "under your radar" - keep it up, it's great that you're getting all this extra awareness. Well done on doing the Freedom Programme too! x

Crazy isn't it, Thumbwitch? It's like a weird self-sabotage. I feel like I am completely useless and mad because everyone else I know outside of my family is a normal size and eats normally, no one else understands. I never discuss my weight or my eating habits with my friends, but people commented when I lost a bit of weight last year (nothing excessive, only a stone or two, and I was still overweight for my height by at least half a stone...). Some strangers comment on my eating (I went to a friend's birthday and ate my dinner, and some knob who I don't even know commented "so you like your food then?". Fuck off). I (I hope?!) eat normally in public but so often binge in secret, it's horrible and shameful. But people don't understand.

My attitude to food is as fucked as my attitude to sex, I totally know why. Being constantly admonished for being fat and hideous by not only strangers and peers, but my family (every single one of them overweight, go figure), especially my mother. She was once dressing me to go and visit family, I was 9 years old, and she said "this is disgusting, you need a girdle". My mum has never been smaller than a size 20, she weighs nearly 20 stone at 5'4 and when I try and encourage her to be a bit healthy for her own sake I get "nah, I've always been like this". I wouldn't mind, she's a grown up and it's her funeral, but her blase attitude compared to the way she treated me for being fat as a kid just makes me absolutely furious now. Of course, as a child I was completely responsible for my diet and thus should have been the one to blame for my size. And there is nothing a girl can do that is worse than being overweight (I don't remember any of my brothers being carted off to dieticians or told they were disgusting).

God if I ever have a daughter I am totally doing things differently!

More self sabotage of a different kind by engaging with my questionable friends. maybe I am being paranoid but I feel like they are picking a fight with me. We could be discussing something completely benign and then they will extrapolate something that I say to make me look ridiculous, then when I say I can't be bothered to argue anymore they say "what, do you just want us to say you are right?", making me look like the mad hysterical woman, unable to take a debate, yet again.

We had a heated discussion about Mumsnet the other day, of all things. I just had to defend it when they slagged it off for being a load of self centred middle class women with nothing better to do than boast about themselves. I said I use it and then they laughed and said I am probably not wanted as I don't have kids. When I said it's not like that and you shouldn't judge something you don't have any experience of, they mocked me saying "well you certainly sound like a nagging mum now" . Why do I bother.

Hi Kateee, I have been reading your thread and thinking about how well you write and how strong you are :) From some of the things you write, it seems like there can be a negative, critical voice in your head, giving yourself a hard time. I think that can happen to many people who are depressed but maybe it's even more likely if people have been emotional abusive to you - maybe you internalise the things you've been told? I hope you can start to notice that negative voice and reject the things it says. Could you consciously start arguing back with positive thoughts? e.g. "It's not my fault", "I am a good person", "I deserve to be loved", "I was strong today". Give yourself a pat on the back for things you achieve no matter how small they seem - they are all small steps in the right direction.
I think you said in a previous post that you looked up GPs on the NHS Choices website, have you contacted one to make an appointment? It sounds like the GP you saw before was completely awful, so it's understandable that has put you off, but if you see a good one I'm sure they could help you.
It sounds like you're very lonely and that's why you haven't completely ended your relationship with Mark even though rationally you know that would be the right thing to do... Have I guessed right? Do you worry that you would feel even worse without being in contact with him? Because I don't think you would. I think being lonely is better than being with someone who makes you feel better about yourself. I think right now it's important that you focus all your positive energy on looking after yourself. I am completely sure that once you do that you will be able to find friends who treat you the way you deserve to be treated. From what I've read on here I think anyone would be lucky to have you as a friend. Those "friends" who take you for granted and tease you don't deserve you.
By the way, I don't have children either and I think mumsnet is great :)

Meant "being lonely is better than being with someone who makes you feel worse about yourself" (not better!) Grr!

Yeah, I've got the food issue too. Been to OA - good. In fact been to a fair few 12step things. Nothing severe... but severe enough! I think all this comes with the territory when you've been smashed to pieces one way or another.

I liked what you said Emma about using a positive voice, noticing when the negative, accusatory voice has the upper hand. I think it's really easy for me lately to slip into saying the most foul things to ourselves without even realising we're doing it. Mad, really. Ditto last sentence of last para.

Good to hear from you weed. I'm liking your friends less and less. Well done for keeping predatory Mark on his side of the line. I don't think it's being suspicious or harsh to feel unsettled that he hankers after you being so out of it that...

Katee I admit to rapidly skimming your thread and am sure this has been said but wanted to reiterate - it wasn't your fault. The way Mark treated you, your uni friends, your childhood experiences. Not your fault. Not bad decisions or bad choices.

These people probably choose you rather than you them. I read a theory that if you have had negative experiences you put up protective walls and good, respectful people see these boundaries and respect them and consequently don't push past them. Abusers otoh don't respect so ironically are the only people who get beyond your barriers iyswim.

and these people are constantly invalidating your experiences. That must be challenging. You say I feel x and they respond with one of- no you don't, well you are wrong, how do you think that makes me feel or only joking. Twats. The lot of them. You are entitled to your feelings.

you also do not need to feel guilty retrospectively for how you felt at other times. When I did child protection i was told you must never assume that childhood sexual experience was awful for the child at the time. I.e. don't project adult or societal attitudes onto children or their experiences. This is NO way means I think child abuse is ok!! But often for survivors their adult perception of what abuse is and how bad it is and the societal perception tells them they should have reacted differently/felt differently. You reacted how you reacted. You cannot change that and you should feel no guilt or shame for it. You did not know then what you know now and even if you had it still would not have been your fault. (Hope this makes sense I am not intending to cause offence in what I know is a sensitive issue).

So many of your experiences wuth Mark resonate with much of what comes up on the support thread fir those in EA relationships, sorry cannot link on phone, you might find it a real source of support.

There are many and complex reasons why it is hard to leave an abusive rs. You are not alone in this and it really, really is not your fault. Just the recgnition you have been in an abusive rs is tough. You are doing as they say, as well if not far better than can be expected under the circs you are resilient and strong and in time this too shall pass.

I got your name wrong!! Sorry Katee

How are you doing Katee? x

No worries springy, easily done

I'm ok thanks Emma, a bit of an insomniac of late so quite exhausted. But generally ok.

You are both right, I do have negative conversations with myself all the time. Having a positive script is a good tactic. Believing it is the battle. Sometimes there is a huge difference between what I think and know to be true and rational. For example, I know that I am reasonably intelligent but I can't help feeling stupid, and people calling me stupid reinforce that, so my negative feelings win over my rational thinking. That's my issue with things like saying to myself "it's their problem" if someone is horrible to me. They may be the bully and the one with a problem, but at the end of the day the problem is mine because I'm the one feeling shit about myself while they are either laughing at me or moving on. This has been my life for 30 years, it's pretty difficult to unlearn.

I've printed new GP forms again, I must fill them in. I am not currently wishing I were dead like a couple of weeks ago, so I am quite stable for now but should have a good GP at the ready really. I must take the forms out of the procrastination pile!

Yes Emma, you are right, I do feel lonely. I don't fear solitude and being single but it's nice to have company. However I started to feel lonely even with Mark, because I knew the way he treated me was wrong, and I felt isolated with no one to talk to (hence I wound up here...). So moving on was the only option. Slow progress but it's happening.

minkem no offence at all, makes perfect sense. It's why I doubt myself. I know things happened when I was a child but I think "but I didn't complain or feel particularly upset or violated at the time, as far as I can remember". But I was 8, I couldn't have known how to react.

Yes, I have lurked on the EA support thread. That, along with various other threads on here made me start to doubt my relationship with Mark. I started to realise that I felt shit because he was actively doing shitty things to me. And they got subtly but progressively worse over the course of 8 years. I sometimes read situations people on here are in and think they are horrendous, way more horrendous than mine. But they didn't start that way, it starts small, and the only acceptable level of abuse is no abuse. I started to worry where things were going - it has always been this low level of control and manipulation that made me feel terrible about myself and as if I had done wrong. It ended this year when he thought I was being unfaithful and got physically aggressive and intimidating and I honestly thought he was going to hit me (he didn't. I told him to get out of my house, he didn't, he stayed until I basically had a breakdown). It wasn't going to get any better, and I decided I am not going to stick around to see if it gets any worse. But it was reading people's experiences on here that made something click and I realised I had to change things. I hope that if anyone in a similar relationship happens to read my wittering they have a similar epiphany. It's no way to live.

Knowledge does gradually tip the balance, though. You've - I've - been trained in a certain way since dot; knowledge does the job of refuting that training, and the scales gradually tip. Consciousness raising I think it's called. It really does do the job, neural pathways etc. Yy we have to keep our eye on it; employ, and perfect, techniques, probably for the rest of our lives up to a point; but it does work. You've seen that just by reading stuff on here: it has permanently changed your world view.

Perhaps whenever we think 'I am crap' we can know that something, somewhere, is distorted?