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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Oh shit, I'm going to pay for this.

125 replies

ginandlime · 15/09/2014 15:13

So, dh been ill for a long time, physically and mentally. Have said before he wakes me up every night, either rattling on about pain or other stuff. Last night it was suicide. This is a recurring theme and I usually cope but he decided last night that we both should. Now, I was scared, I'm not scared of him, I'm not scared that he will try and do something to me, but I'm a bit scared for him because this is a slightly different theme. So, got hold of his cpn and said get him into hospital. She turned up, he was funny, witty, charming, despite the fact that he hasn't changed his trousers for over a week and hasn't washed his hair for a fortnight. He got me upset so it looked as though I was the one that was unhinged.
He has today told me I need help, I'm unreasonable, and some other things that would make me a little too identifiable but are downright strange, essentially I'm a control freak who won't let him do what he wants to do. Not true and very odd as he doesn't leave the house, his choice.
Sorry. Just getting it out.

OP posts:
LoonytoadQuack · 16/09/2014 15:54

Bloody hell.

If next time he wakes up suggesting a suicide pact, and you say " Good idea! You first!" is there any chance he'll make good on it?!

Sorry. Inappropriate and insensitive. But Jesus! How the hell - and WHY the hell - would anyone put up with this?

Please listen to everyone saying a great big "Get out". This person sounds fucking dangerous.

Hissy · 16/09/2014 15:55

I was thinking that too Loony

ilovechristmas1 · 16/09/2014 18:33

the op has stayed with him for over 20yrs

had children with this man

has lived with her children in this horrible enviroment for all their lives

she makes light of his threats

she has been brainwashed

she has no intention of leaving this man

harsh but that's how i see it

Original poster
ginandlime · 16/09/2014 19:45

Thanks I love really helpful and supportive. So glad I name changed for these. Shan't bother anyone anymore, just wanted a bit of help with being unable to turn around twenty years overnight.

OP posts:
FunkyBoldRibena · 16/09/2014 19:47

What sort of help did you want?

This sounds horrendous but you don't seem to even want to leave him.

ellenjames · 16/09/2014 19:57

Your poor children Hmm how could you have brought them up in this abusive environment, that's bloody cruel.

Itsfab · 16/09/2014 19:58

Believe me the kids won't give a shit about the house if their mum is dead at their dad's hands.

You need help and you need it today.

When it comes out your husband talked about suicide pacts and you did nothing do you think your life will stay as it is now? Sad

Take control and save your children and yourself.

Hissy · 16/09/2014 20:01

the man wants you to kill yourself, leaving your kids orphans, or perhaps kill them too.

what help do you need to see how fucked up this is?

how damaged your children are as a result of living with thus vile manipulator? look at how they scurry to other people's houses than stay in theirs!

what more can anyone do/say?

Hissy · 16/09/2014 20:02

i'm out. can't bear this car crash any more.

incidentally, when a guy tries to convince you to kill yourself, the above is the only thing to say to him too! it really is that simple, and that clearcut.

jellybeanlover · 16/09/2014 20:09

Ginandlime - end this thread, maybe you posted on the wrong night, but I would expect more support for you than this, I will PM you

Itsfab · 16/09/2014 20:23

Hmm jellybeanlover

OP - be careful who you talk too, some people might not have what is best for you in their actions.

ouryve · 16/09/2014 22:52

What support does she need, Jellybean? What she doesn't need is someone saying "oh yes, petal, you're doing so well, you keep on being his verbal and emotional punchbag and you will be well rewarded."

The support that is needed is being aware that it's OK to walk away when someone is being an asshole, as her partner was over the painkiller, today. Gin needs to not regard her abusive partner as a project or as a cross to bear. Gin needs to be helped to let go of those awful feelings of guilt and obligation.

I hope your therapy sessions can help you with this, Gin. As things stand, you are being ground down, your kids (who have a particular need for stable, kind adults in their lives) are being driven away and rather than helping him, you're actually enabling him because, as long as you can't bring yourself to step back from him, he can just keep on being cruel to you.

QuintessentiallyQS · 16/09/2014 23:16

It is not overnight though, it has been going on for a very long time, and gradually getting worse, hasnt it?

GarlicSeptimus · 16/09/2014 23:49

I would think therapy's essential for Gin. 20 years in something even deeper than co-dependence - what they used to call a folie à deux or a danse macabre - can't be unlocked with a dose of common sense. Not until it's reached its climax, anyway. I hope this one won't, and that Gin's found a shit-hot counsellor.

Twinklestein · 17/09/2014 09:17

Gin Im sorry if you feel unsupported, I have unbounded sympathy for your situation, believe me, I'm horrified with what you've had to live with. But the problem is that these 20 years cannot be turned round full stop, not overnight or over a longer period. The only thing you can do is accept that they have happened, accept that your husband is abusive and will not change, and get yourself and the kids clear of it. There is no middle ground unfortunately.

It seems as if you think if you go to counsellor you will be able to identify things that you are doing to make him behave like this and change them, or if the counsellor confirms that it's not you it's him, you ask him to change. But abusive relationships simply don't work like that. There's nothing you can do to modify your behaviour that is going to make any difference at all, and no matter how much you ask him he will not alter his behaviour, he can't - this is who he is, this is how he thinks he's entitled to behave.

ASD spectrum plus a pain condition is no excuse for abuse. And there are plenty of people who live with far worse conditions who don't behave the way your husband is behaving. The two things are not directly related. It's just that he seems to think that due to what he perceives as his misfortune, he's entitled to torture his family.

You need to contact Women's Aid and ask them to recommend a counsellor who is experienced in domestic abuse, it's really important you talk to someone who will understand that dynamics of your relationship.

I understand that it's difficult to make changes fast, but the problem is when your husband is talking about suicide and double suicide, you need to act fast. Sometimes abuse escalates and in that case action you would like to have had plenty of time to consider before going ahead, needs to be taken urgently.

Granville72 · 17/09/2014 09:57

As already said, only her H can save him from himself, and that's with the help of qualified support and his GP. He needs to be sectioned under the mental health act.

OP, you cannot save him, or turn it around over night or in a weeks time. He is Mentally Ill and needs professional help.

The kindest and most supportive thing you can do is to get on to his support team and GP, and keep on at them until he is sectioned. Going to counselling for yourself is not going to help him, only help yourself.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 17/09/2014 10:10

Just trying to see this from OP's pov, I don't think she'd have come back here had she no intent of changing her circumstances. Clearing her head sounds perfectly reasonable.

gin I do worry that the latest turn of the screw - talk of suicide together - takes this nightmare onto the next level. You have coped in rl with far worse than a few remarks on here you take exception to, so I hope you come back.

Granville72 · 17/09/2014 10:22

The easiest and quickest way of her changing the circumstances are by getting him sectioned and the help he desperately needs. The children have ASD and have already suffered abuse at his hands. How long before he starts trying to convince one or both of them that a suicide pact is a good idea?

A quick look around the internet clearly states that anyone known to Mental Health Authorities, Social Services or their GP, Physiatrists etc. to have mental health issues and starts to talk of suicide and suicide pacts (because this deems them a danger to themselves and to others) need to be Sectioned under the Mental Health Act.

If the OP comes back to post though, I'm pretty sure she will again deny that he is of any danger to himself or anyone else

QuintessentiallyQS · 17/09/2014 10:26

I am not sure why the OP is not willing to actually help her dh get well. Having him sectioned can achieve this.

I know it is hard, I had to take my mum for sectioning for her to get the help she needed. It is different though, because she has levy body dementia, and with a kind that made her psychotic. This means she was a danger to both her husband and herself.

misscph1973 · 17/09/2014 10:41

OP, I am sorry to read how hard it is for you.

Remember, this is a forum, none of us actually know each other. You can get good support here, you just have to ignore the "advice" that is useless to you.

I fully understand that you obviously can't just walk out. It doesn't work like that. I think organising the counselling is brilliant, it's a huge step in the right direction. You will get there. You've been with this man for 20 years, so a few days/weeks/months more is not going to be detrimental. You need time to make the right decisions, you need time to work out what you actually want.

Best of luck. Keep updating.

Original poster
ginandlime · 17/09/2014 10:56

Because he can get out of being sectioned. It's scary. He can hold it together for long enough to be reasonable and calm and reasoned. He can play it, as he did the other day, so that I look as though I'm at the end of my tether looking after him and he has nothing but sympathy for me.
To the people that got sharp on here. Thanks, I really don't appreciate it, I tried to tell him to go this morning, I tried to tell him he was abusive. Actually that's not true. I did. Apparently he is the victim and I am the abusive one. Great. Thanks for your help.
To those offering support thanks, I'm going out in a bit. I will be contacting W.A. and I will still be going for my counselling appointment next week.

OP posts:
QuintessentiallyQS · 17/09/2014 10:58

Your last post has shown that he is in fact abusive. He can chose how to behave. If he was really mentally ill, he would not be able to do that.

Maybe he is showing the medical professionals what he is, and he is the real him with them, and an abusive fucker with you?

Twinklestein · 17/09/2014 11:11

OP - you can't tell an abusive man he's abusive and think he's going to agree with you. Did you expect him to say 'yes you're right'? Of course he told you you're the abusive one, that's standard.

Nobody on here advised you to tell your husband he's abusive, nor has anyone as I recall advised to ask him to go to the doctor. We've advised you to try to get him sectioned.

I understand that he fooled the CPN but she is only a nurse, she's not even qualified to make a full psychiatric evaluation, only a psychiatrist can do that. This is why you should contact your GP or contact the Crisis team and ask to speak to a psychiatrist, and explain that he's in a bad way but managing to fool the CPN for a short period. You can go to the GP yourself and explain the whole situation: he's going downhill rapidly, he's not functioning, you're extremely worried about him.

I'm glad that you're going to contact WA, and that you've got counselling lined up. But I cannot recommend highly enough that you ask WA to recommend a counsellor experienced in domestic abuse because you really need someone who will understand the dynamics of your situation.

If you haven't been recommended the Freedom Programme already, I warmly suggest you look into it.

HazelBite · 17/09/2014 11:25

OP I don't often comment on this site, but reading your post I am reminded of a former colleague of mine who had a surprisingly similar story to yours.
She struggled on for 25 years, before finally admitting defeat and having her DH sectioned. She told me that even only a few weeks her teenage daughter told her of the relief she felt at being away from the continued tension that her fathers behaviour caused.
The saddest thing she said to me was, that once apart she realised how much of her life had been wasted and put on hold by her trying to do the right thing and being supportive to her DH.
I worry for you when you mentioned the double suicide pact, please be mindful that he may try and facilitate this without your agreement because he knows best and you are " unreasonable".

Please take carexx

ArcheryAnnie · 17/09/2014 11:50

Ginandlime I'm so, so sorry to hear that you've been living through this.

I'm another one seriously concerned for your safety. I'm also concerned that he = being the unstable, dangerous one - is gaslighting, trying to make you feel that you are the unreasonable one and presenting you in that light to third parties. it's a pretty standard manipulation technique of abusive men.

Call someone and talk it over. Your fears are real, and you aren't being unreasonable in raising them. There's every reason to believe you are in danger from him, and I worry that your loyalty to him - and your long history together - will prevent you from taking action until it's too late.

Try these two numbers - it's Women's Aid. They have a lot of experience: 0808 2000 247 0808 2000 247

Good luck, OP, and stay safe. Thanks