Sister or partner. Who is behind her unpleasant behaviour to me. + red flag query

[unchangedname]

Hi guys.

Sorry I started writing this about red flags but it has become about my relationship with my sister, and whether she is instigating her attitude towards me (and my parents) or whether it is indeed her partner.

Here are my old threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2169105-Is-generally-not-believing-always-double-checking-a-red-flag

A bit more background:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2153440-Dont-get-on-with-future-BIL-Will-it-get-better

(Please don't reply to the latter thread though as I'm hoping it will stay buried due to some identifying details! I think traffic is higher in chat and am paranoid )

What might be a red flag sometimes only occurs to me days or even weeks later.

The latest that I would like some advice on is that they have moved into new rental accommodation for 6 months while their house purchase is going through. They moved about a month ago.

My sister is refusing to give us the landline number. This is very out of character for the old sister I used to know.

Basically, whenever he answered the phone to us in the old house it was a 'oh, you again' tone. From my sister, if we called during dinner (which was not at a fixed time so we weren't to know) we would get summarily and crossly chastised and rung off. If we accidentally called during their favourite TV show she would either answer angrily or they would simply not answer the phone.
[Old sister pre-relationship if rung during her dinner would happily have a quick chat, or very civilly we'd arrange to chat later, or just natter while she ate. Also I would always ring her landline and she would ring mine and there were no problems].

We have all been trained off the landline now and only call her mobile as a result.

She texted the new address. I replied asking for the landline and received no reply. I've never not received a text reply from her, ever. A few days later I texted to ask again and nothing. When we next spoke I asked for the landline and she said 'we've decided not to give it to anyone'. When pressed for a reason, she said 'it came free with the broadband and we didn't really want it'. I said I thought it would be good if we had it for safety reasons - we would only call it if we couldn't reach them by mobile for an alarming amount of time. She came up with a number of reasons which one by one she admitted weren't valid, and eventually got in a huff with me so I dropped it.

After an incident where she called as I was serving a dinner that I'd been cooking for my parents for 2.5h, about a pretty trivial organisational matter, and called back four times in immediate succession, which called each of us away from the table in turn for 5-10 minutes at a time, then chastised me in an email for being mean in not wanting to sort it out there and then, I was minded of what happens when we call her when they are eating dinner.

I am now confused as to whether, actually, her dislike and disrespect of me is authored by him or her. As I say in my long thread, her sense of humour became very cruel and dismissive when they got together romantically, and she lets him act however he wants around us, and has got to taking on his criticisms of us as her own, starting to corner me about things I do wrong or unlikeable traits I have, or my bad taste in TV, or how shallow and materialistic I am, or whatever. I am trying to untangle whether she has always basically looked down on us (me and my parents) a bit and his presence just sharpens it, or whether he is the author. I don't know anymore.

Our whole lives, she has pretty much made out she is the saviour sister that has put up with me, and that I have consistently been a needy, selfish, emotionally bloodsucking, errant person. I have consistently been told for the past 15 years (probably implied further back than that, as well) that I do nothing for her, am incredibly selfish and self centred, am a let-down and a worry, untrustworthy, irresponsible, self-centred etc.
She treats me more like a pet that can be wheeled out for amusement, as I suppose I am quite eccentric, a bit young-at-heart, used to have an interesting/unusual career and lead a slightly odd life. This makes me a good auntie as I can be very silly with her baby and possibly a good topic of conversation with her friends? ...I have no idea what she gets out of having me around when I reflect on how she treats me.

In a personal review of my life over the past week, I have realised she is the only one who has really had this message towards/about me and I never thought to question it.

Her partner treats me like this but his style is different - eye-rolling and passive aggressive. She is direct and rude, or analyses me under the guise of psychology, telling me my faults: 'it's actually really sad, because you're so selfish you can't see that...' 'i'm really sad, because I feel like I can't trust you to be there for me... ' etc. This latter is because six years ago she had(?) to go to the pub for drinks with a group of people, one of which was the best friend of a man she had been dating for a few months, and wanted me to go with her for emotional support. I was in a pretty bad place, hadn't left my house for months, but even so would have gone had I realised what a big deal it was to her and that it'd be brought up every few months for the next several years ('see, I know I can't rely on you, and that makes me sad...')

The result is I can never do enough for her. Nothing I do is good enough, no amount of gestures can convince her that I am not terminally selfish, I am scared to talk to her in case I 'slip up' and 'reveal my selfishness' - accused of turning the conversation back to me, not asking about her enough. (As per my long thread, I looked after the baby day and night for four days and got accused of being 'the most selfish person in the world', and told I was only looking after him because I wanted to). I have just realised it and I am really tired of it.

I will say I have massively moved on from my old thread - I can't believe how unsure of myself I was at the start. Rereading it is what made me start to question the dynamic with my sister.

The advice I received was like water in a desert of confusion, so as I cannot discuss this with anyone in real life, nor seem to get any perspective no matter how hard I try and think it though, I would appreciate any other points of view, even if I have to be told off or visit my own culpability in this situation.

Also Agatha re the ASD, you may well be right, I am ultra-sensitive to when I may have offended someone, I don't know what odds that makes

I wanted to add some of the stuff that churned up

I remembered when we went to Disneyworld Orlando, I must have been about 7/8 and sister 12/13. My parents spent a couple of days looking at Florida properties as they were thinking about buying a holiday home.

Well my sister forbade it. It sounds strange doesn't it? But she forbade them to buy a property. I was so worried about what was afoot, I took on my sister's aspect and echoed it.

Now my mum says, I wish we had bought that holiday home, you and your sister wouldn't let me. She says it surprisingly often!

I just remember how much power she has always had, maybe I had it too

I also remember a few of years later (so I was 11) we went to Tenerife, and some brightly dressed people aside the road had a sort of tombola outside the hotel, and said you could win a prize. My mum, dad and sister didn't win, but apparently I had won like a Walkman or something, so we got in their jeep and went to collect it (!!!) Well of course it was Timeshare sales, and I remember they showed us through this flash resort, and I was like 'wow, this is great' and somehow they ended up buying it, I remember every detail of that process, the horrible pressure tactics of the man, the woman was absolutely awful, she said a couple of underhand things that went by all of us but I only picked up on as an adult, promised to play squash (!!!!) with me if we bought it, and we saw her outside £8000 lighter and I said something about playing squash with her and she just said 'what? oh yeah' and flicked her fag ash towards me.

I have always felt such guilt about that, I feel like the whole thing was my fault, my family almost got abused in a way and it was all my fault.

We did manage to offload the bloody thing with a £3000 loss a few years later, but still

Sounds so stupid to store that as a trauma
I've never spoken to anyone about it

MexicanSpringtime,

I very rarely find that I have a point of view in the dynamic when my sister and parents are present
No doubt exacerbated by the lack of 'sane' points of reference

I either have to be on their side, 'the enemy', or on hers, like in the florida example above

With regard to tirades alone,
I have more recently tried to step in to advocate for my parents but by God she is stingingly vicious when I try and do that, the latest (last few weeks) is that I am a 'real life troll' more from the past and present would be 'who cares what you think, no one' 'nobody cares what you think anyway' 'did anyone ask you? did they? DID THEY? NO, SO JUST GET OUT. GET OUT!' 'SHUT UP AND LET HIM SPEAK' (my dad sitting there, cornered, wanting to leave, because it is a rhetorical question 'do you admit you should't have', 'do you see that what you've actually done is __,do you though, do you' 'did you think about how I'd feel as a result of what you did though, you didn't, did you' [latter in relation to something like what he did with his inheritance or how he manages his health])

Me - can I say one thing
'YOU'VE ALREADY SAID YOUR 'ONE THING', GET OUT'
or a theme of 'Can't you see what I was trying to do here, you've ruined it now' i.e. she was building up a head of steam in her attack and I've dissipated it, followed by, 'Well done, hope you're proud of yourself' and she will get up to go and come back 'You know, actually, you're really selfish' and then may either start on me or flounce out
I think the point of some tirades therefore are to get the subject to realise something malign about themselves and see the error of their ways, and confess to the transgression

I have seen them last up to three hours, she will take water breaks, I have seen when my mum or dad gets up she will start up accusingly 'where are you going' and if the answer is just to the loo etc she will relax and say 'ok', if there is any intimation they are done with the conversation she will either stand in their way, as they try and dodge her she matches them with sidesteps left and right (no one has ever been violent) until she has got in something really wounding and totally below the belt - really, there is no off limits to her - to either bait them to stay, or upset them, alternatively they will be followed out 'see, you always do this, you just don't care do you, you don't [rueful smile and contemptuous mouth] and that makes me really sad [maybe tears]', or 'fine, keep being an idiot' or again she will escalate it to the personal insult if she feels she hasn't got the reaction she wanted, sometimes when following hasn't worked she will retreat to a downstairs room and slam the door and sit there crying so one of us will give her a hug, or 'go and give your sister a hug', 'but she...' 'i know, i know. just give her a hug, she's your sister, ignore her, she's just like that', or my mum will make her something she likes to eat and go back to being breezy

I am trying to think about when it escalates to her leaving, I think it is normally when none of us has somehow complied, or she feels she has lost an argument? I don't know how to separate it out just yet.

Thinking about it, my mum is actually trying to please her all the time, trying to engage her in programs (which she utterly denigrates) e.g. you've been framed (!!) she'll say, oh look [__], look! so cute! my sister, not looking up from iPhone: 'it's utterly exploitative and denigrating. no, it's completely disgusting. made for idiots. who asked the permission of those children' yet 3 minutes later she will look up and be watching a sequence and genuinely laugh, and then quickly make a similar disparaging comment and look back at phone, my mum starts up again, sister starts up again, etc etc, this tiresome cycle goes on for like the whole half hour or hour of the program!

She will buy my sister clothes pretty much whenever she buys herself something (she never buys me any but to be very honest I really don't care), always stocks up with her favourite foods before a visit and to be honest is a bit panicky if we don't have something in she'll like.

Now it feels really odd typing that, because my mum is really quite strong and you could say bossy, but that is how it is around her. She was the same around her mum, obsessively anticipating her mum's needs. See, my grandma almost seemed, not bemused by the efforts of her kids [the ones that aren't my oldest uncle], but she was never sharp or rude with them, or demanding, just really nice, but they all did treat her with great reverence.

I probably think of her as strong because (i) she is a much tougher cookie than my dad and (ii) out of all of us, she probably stands up to my sister the most, and she certainly stands up to me! But our relationship doesn't get pushed to those limits, because we get on very well most of the time. The house is full of violence (not physical harm, but storming and slammed doors, blocking the way, and shouting) and anger when sister is here (or indeed when we have visited her) and it is calm and fun when she is not.

In a way the detail doesn't matter

I know the point is it's neither normal nor acceptable, something I didn't know 48 hours ago

It is useful though to get the cycles down in print and look at them

I feel my culpability shrinking as I do so. I see I have very little to do with it, it will escalate no matter what anyone does or says

Regarding strategies going forward

I feel almost out of body at the minute, like I can relax for the first time

It's nothing I did wrong

There's nothing I can do

A massive part of my head is free to stop ruminating on as kittybelle said

My thoughts are now not dominated/pre occupied with the churning Qs about yet another incident concerning my sister.

My head is just filled with myself, a bit. My shoulders have dropped, I feel oddly relaxed

I have no idea what an unreasonable demand is, equally I have no idea what a reasonable one is. That is completely understandable. You have been trained over your lifetime to accept unreasonable demands from your sister and others, whilst your own needs have not been met.

Re: your grandma - I know her kids adored her and were always looking for her approval.. Actually, (and I'm not trying to sully your memories of your grandma, but her relationship with others int he family may have been different to her relationship with you) this is interesting. It is not normal for children in happy and emotionally healthy relationships with their parents to "always look for approval" from their parents. Perhaps another example of bad dynamics in the extended family, going back over a long period of time?

I just remember how much power she has always had, maybe I had it too. She had that 'power' because your parents handed it to her. Terrified of her tantrums, they gave in to her childish demands. The wrong thing for a responsible parent to do, IMO.

The timeshare thing - of course it wasn't your fault. You were a child. Your parents were presumably impressed with it too. They were influenced by what they saw, the folded to the pressure tactics of the sellers (lots of people do), and they then made the decision to stick their hands in their pockets and buy. Not your fault. But they were used to folding under pressure so were unable to cope with hard sell from time-share sellers.

It's so good that you feel more relaxed about it all. You can build on that.

my mum... was the same around her mum, obsessively anticipating her mum's needs.

So this is where you've learnt this behaviour pattern - your mum. You're doing the same thing with your sister that she did with her mother (and your sister.) Placing other peoples' needs at the centre of your life to the displacement of your own, isn't healthy, and it's quite frustrating in the long run.

I have to be honest, your description of your family's entertainment package for your aunt, uncle and cousins seems a bit OTT and I wonder whether you were all perhaps desperately courting their good opinion too.

I think this thread is going to be great for you, letting it all out. I can already sense a change in you :) Just imagine what it will be like when you have processed all this & made some positive changes in your life!

Well. I've often boggled that I seem to be surrounded by disordered, vicious narcs in my family - how can that be? Surely that's not right, I must have some part in this, I must be responsible to at least some degree, it can't be that I'm the only one who is SANE. But reading your account I recognise that that really is the case: my family is mad. And, somehow, I didn't get, wasn't born with, whatever it is that has them by the throat...

Except it is ME that they've had by the throat from the year dot - and, as a consequence, I have been profoundly jumbled. I relate entirely to eg your fear of people 'having a go', strangers; and remember with absolute clarity times when it has happened, out of the blue, seeming to confirm what my tormentors have said all along: that I am selfish, a horror, and I deserve it.

I also relate to having nonexistent boundaries. Even the thought of a personal boundary would make me squirm, literally dizzy. Your family has not upheld or respected any of your personal boundaries; have come in and out of you at will - as though they own you, that you are a possession they can do with whatever they like, because ,to them, you are inanimate. 'You' are a device.

In therapy (and long term therapy is essential here) I was told about a house, with a FENCE outside and a GATE, and no-one could come within that boundary, through that gate, unless 1. I allowed it and 2. They came into that boundary with respect. That was a revelation. Sadly, it took a long time to get my head around that, let alone enforce it. My boundaries had been so trashed - no, they didnt EXIST as far as my family were concerned - i had no idea how to function alone, not the first idea.

I'm happy to say I have now learnt how to live alone - ie not defined by Crazy them - and to recognise and enforce my boundaries. I will always be hyper-aware/alert because you can't untrain that, ime; but it does come in handy, can be a tremendous resource, academically, creatively and socially eg. (Though one has to learn that not everyone is as finely-tuned).

I am no longer in contact with the crazy mob - except my aged parents who are largely toothless now (though I am always on high alert with them and keep it short) - and that has taken some time: I thought I could manage them, or my feelings around them, but no, it wasn't possible: they are pure poison to me - actively so - and I can't afford to be around them. (Long sentence - see, i still feel the panic when I think too deeply about them )

Matthew 7:6New King James Version (NKJV)

6“Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

The Abuse, OP, the sheer Domestic Abuse you (and your parents) are putting up with! If your sis was a dp you would be urged to leave, seek legal advice, go to WA... my advice is the same, really; get away! Get your own place if you possibly can, go No-Contact or Minimal contact wth your sister.

IMO minimal contact is harder, as you will still be within her sphere of influence; no-contact is easier (I'm NC with my toxic sister and my father - and I still get the 'but she's your sister' or 'it's your dad' from my mum. [shrug] I don't expose myself or my dc to anyone toxic, the fact that he and she are related to me is immaterial.

Does anyone else jsut want to slip into OPs skin for a few days - just to stand up to this vile person? First thing I'd do is move your father back into his room, (and put locks on all bedroom doors to keep her out) and make the spare room nice for her. (and sit back and enjoy the fireworks with an amused smile, and a head-tilt!) Any attempt at shouting or intimidating would be met with me leaving - and any attempt to stop me would end in a nose-to-nose confrontation. ANd NO hugs when she puts on the waterworks. I'd be telling her exactly where to go with her demands, tears, shouting, ridiculous intimidation (you know she only does it to make herself feel big? ) She gets in her car to go home and she is feeling Great! She's got rid of all her anger/aggression/stress by shouting at you all, and the tears just confirms to her that she holds all the shots, she is the main character in 'The SIS Show' and reinforces that she is the most important person in THE WORLD!!! If someone stood up to her, she would back down like all bullies, and it's only then that she respects them.

SHe has Zero respect for any of you, much less love.

I just remember how much power she has always had, maybe I had it too. She had that 'power' because your parents handed it to her. Terrified of her tantrums, they gave in to her childish demands. The wrong thing for a responsible parent to do, IMO.

Agatha is spot on! Weak parenting has made her like this. Your parents want you to be a 'close' family because it's the easiest thing for a quiet life - no friction, dramas, sibling fights. Soooo, that turned out well?

And Springy, as ever, is right too.

Thinking practically for a moment, OP, what are your chances of moving out anytime soon?

Thank you for your wonderful posts, I read them a couple of hours ago and was letting the concepts and the peace settle in and was going to come back to write responses to them which I will of course do, I just wanted to log this as it has just happened

I have been avoiding the Skype calls for 3 or 4 days now, which I have never ever done before, my mum was getting tense about it, implying things but not saying anything. I feel I must have some space from my sister to start getting my head and sense of self back in focus. The bit I have left out in all this is that we are all supposed to be going away to a holiday park next week, in different but close accommodation, booked months ago, and the dinner phone calls sister was hassling about were regarding activities to book.

I ordered some recreational items for the baby (for baby swimming), I know I shouldn't have, but he needed them to do the planned activity and my sister was going to prevent him doing the activity just to 'show' me (regarding the booking and dinner interruption thing earlier) so I went ahead and ordered the items. Actually I knew that what she would have done was turn up at the pool, then shrug and somehow make out that because of me not acquiescing to the phonecalls, she didn't buy the equipment and I can see the contemptuous smirk 'he's missing out and it's because of you'. She would turn up with the baby and then shrug and say 'well he hasn't got the equipment so he won't do it', and blame me. I know without hesitation this is what would have happened.

So I thought, either we order the stuff or the baby misses out. Talked it over with mum and we went ahead and ordered it, knowing we could return it if she did indeed refuse to take him to the pool which would have, I can say without hesitation, our fault as we had upset her over the booking phonecalls.
[I know I know I shouldn't have done it and believe me I won't be doing it again].

So Mum was speaking to sister who 'wants to know what we ordered [and paid for!!] in case she does not approve and wants to buy different things' and told me to email her the list. I paused. I would email my mum and she could forward it.

My mum just started shouting at me about how I am depriving the baby of his auntie, 'he hasn't seen you for a week because of this 'feud' you've started', don't punish the baby just because your sister said one silly thing, think about how much [baby] is missing you

I went away and thought about it and decided to write the things down on a piece of paper and give it to her
More unleashing of shouting at me, why can't I think of the baby, plus more of the above, plus I was 'a mule' (!) (i think she was trying to get to a stubbornness analogy!)

I have calmly walked away and am typing this, I felt so upset and wanted to begin to defend myself but knew I would not win, I would get drawn into an argument, and no doubt would end up phoning my sister to submit for approval a list of items I spent several hours choosing, for her approval

I didn't mention that yesterday afternoon my mum called me over to look at some pictures slideshowing on her iPad. A couple were of me and my sister and she kept saying 'aww, such a beautiful picture'

I know I am an idiot and as Abbie says and I will address when I feel calmer, I need to think about wider options, but I just wanted to get this down, the alternative would be to weep quietly in a corner!! I don't want this to rot inside me, the guilt, the cycle

BTW I had no idea how I was going to approach the actual holiday, I did decide I would use the opportunity to start a new hobby and spend a lot of my time in that part of the complex, hadn't properly thought through what was going to happen when saw sister, was guilt tripped by mother, etc

Mother on phone to sister now carefully reading out list and submitting for approval from 'head office'

Sorry I know this is frustrating and seems like a backwards move, I know I shouldn't have got myself into this situ and won't be doing it again

However the guilt tripping from my mum is kicking in even fiercer and more intense than I thought it would, as someone upthread 'go nc very quietly and they won't notice for a while' but of course mum is monitoring so closely

She will be broadly upset with me if I do not conciliate asap as she now knows there is some nc with intent on my behalf, it will leak into all our interactions, she mentioned a couple of times, very angrily 'what are you going to do, ignore them for a week?' re. holiday, implication being if I am cool or 'off' when I inevitably see sister I will be the vortex of selfishness that is ruining the holiday

I thought about not going but actually, I want to go to the complex and enjoy the various activities considering how little variety (none) the rest of my year tends to have. Perhaps I should think again

I know I need to think about new living situation but will address this shortly when I have regained my composure

Actually I wanted to respond to what Springy said.

That post was so helpful to me.

It is very powerful to know you've gone through the same, what seemed uniquely strange, thought processes as me, from an uncannily similar starting point.

It makes the odds much less likely that it is 'us', but indeed our environments!!

I love the boundary analogy, I closed my eyes and visualised it when I read it. I felt so safe and so much peace for an instant. It got me through the interaction with my mum just now in a novel way.

I think a result is not only having no personal boundaries, but misfiring in where others' are;
perhaps trying very hard to impress people, or be obsequiously ultra-polite where it is not warranted; no idea of how to calibrate degree of effort/lengths you would go do for other people

Hence what Twinklestein observed, yes intellectually all that effort seems OTT, inside it is just what I thought families do, not thinking that it is not something anyone has ever done for me

I think I valued what I had to offer as a person so little, that thought, well I can research intensely and organise and I can offer that, if nothing else

I was thinking, not only have I no personal boundaries nor any idea where to begin to get them, I also basically have no idea how to act around people which is why I always stick to an obsequious general standard as a safety measure to avoid people being hateful to me

"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

Thank you, I will hold this to my heart

It implies I do have a holiness about me, and what I have to offer, the essential me-ness of me and not what I can do for people, are pearls, and I like thinking about myself like that, it is different, and it feels more right somehow

So, in other words, in order to get free of your sister's abuse, you're going to have to leave your parents house, because they're so deeply embroiled in the dysfunctional dynamic. They will never stop placating your sister, I think they're too old and your mum's behaviour sounds as if it went back to childhood.

Leaving is a step that may seem impossible now. But I suggest you start with just imagining what it would feel like not to have to deal with this crap on a daily basis. Imagine life out from under the dark shadow of your sister, a life full of people and things you like, not constant, undermining, manipulation and belittling. Imagine what it would be like to have your own friends around you. It might take a bit of time and effort to set up this new life, but however scary or distant a prospect it may feel, it is absolutely do-able.

Keep your phone with you at all times. If you need to, lock yourself in the loo and talk to us. You have friends that if they could, would be standing next to you and telling them to back the Fuck off and leave you alone. We're here and we're proud of how far you've come. I know that awful feeling in your tummy when you know you could return to the status quo just by giving in, that it would make everything better. They've done that you, and you deserved so much better from the people that are supposed to love you.

Rome wasn't built in a day OP, don't beat yourself up about the list, until you're ready to leave, your sister will always be on your case. And you will probably have to capitulate just to avoid WW3.

Sorry I know this is frustrating and seems like a backwards move, I know I shouldn't have got myself into this situ and won't be doing it again - what ??- buying stuff that you wanted to buy for your nephew, in the knowledge that he would need it for an activity that he would enjoy? I'd carry on - in fact I'd be doing it weekly, if I wanted. 'Think of the baby' - you are! It's your sis that is making it all about her!

Honestly OP get some counselling, and assertiveness training. Stop thinking about what she wants, and more about you.

Moving out is a good start, but I agree you need to get this 'holiday' over with first (personally I can't think of anything worse )

Have you ever seen 'Little Miss Sunshine' OP? I imagine it will be that kind of a holiday...

God, thank you guys, thank you for supporting me and understanding

Just now, I had to go back into the kitchen (didn't want to!) to get some water and my mum announced that we would be going to sister's the sunday before (staying at a hotel as they don't have room in their new rental) to look at their new house (the one they're buying) then we would all drive to the holiday area on monday. I calmly said I would drive myself straight from home in my own car to the holiday area on Monday and had already pre-bookd my car in, and I would meet them all at a particular activity on the Monday.

She started hissing at me, saying, and I quote, 'well if I came to [the holiday park] after that [i.e. with my dad and without me] I am going to be so upset that you might as well go by yourself'. She then started saying to my dad in the next room, 'you go with your daughter. I don't want to go' and was starting up some more but I came into here and closed the door as I didn't want to hear it.

The sheer power of me being able to write this down is that for 30 something years I had no idea this was not completely normal. It stuns me to think that there is any other way for a family to be

Thank you Twinkle

It is such a weird thought who I would be without them. Like a nascent, unformed blob - I mean you could tell me any personality to have and any boundaries to have and I could try them on, but the idea of an underlying 'me' with any natural instincts or ideas of conduct is so alien

ImNotShpanishImEgyptshun

"Keep your phone with you at all times. If you need to, lock yourself in the loo and talk to us. You have friends that if they could, would be standing next to you and telling them to back the Fuck off and leave you alone. We're here and we're proud of how far you've come. I know that awful feeling in your tummy when you know you could return to the status quo just by giving in, that it would make everything better. They've done that you, and you deserved so much better from the people that are supposed to love you."

I wish there was a big fat heart emoticon I could send you
Thank you for giving me a safe place here

Thank you captainmummy! Honestly that baby has such a beautiful, sunny nature, he has never swum before and I can't wait to see him splashing about in his little rubber ring and state-of-the-art swim-nappy-system.

I am keeping it carefully in mind about the need for counselling, I will come back to this point later.

Twinkelstein, thank you, I have just had a look at that, I may well get a 2nd hand copy and take it with us for a 'family night in' at the holiday park (plus I love Steve Carrell!)