Can rape ever be a misunderstanding?

[snowflake02]

I posted here a while back under a different user name.

My husband still maintains that this was just a misunderstanding, which leaves me totally confused. I thought I was abundantly clear in saying 'no', so I'm not sure how he could have misunderstood. But what if he really did just get it wrong? Is it even possible to rape someone by accident? Or is it not rape if it is just a misunderstanding?

I am at a total loss as to how we/I move on from this (and everything else), especially when I feel that he is not acknowledging what actually happened. I feel that he needs to acknowledge it in order to really apologise. Or is this unreasonable of me?

But perhaps I am wrong, maybe it was nothing more than a misunderstanding? His refusal to call it anything else is making me doubt myself again.

[cailindana]

I get it snowflake. But, as you know, you should never ever have to struggle against your partner, not for any reason, but certainly not to stop him raping you.

[PacificDogwood]

Charming, eh?

Have you ever read This Charming Man by Marian Keyes? (As an aside, I hate that her books are marketed under ChickLit as she addresses many rather difficult and dark subject, but her main characters are women, so clearly not worthy of more serious clout )
Anyhoo, it's about a controlling and increasingly abusive man. Who is very, very charming indeed.

Charm is great, but is it never enough. It's a superficial lacquer that attracts people and reels them in. Many dangerous people are v charming until they don't get what they want or think they need or 'deserve'.

Look at the Freedom Program again .
Google 'sociopath' and see whether any of the explanations remind you of your H.
I am not saying that he is a sociopath (I don't know him), but charm and abuse in combination make me very suspicious.

[snowflake02]

Thank you, sounds like something I should think about reading. I will also have a google.

[PacificDogwood]

It's v funny too...

[snowflake02]

Just had a quick look at the definition of sociopath, which is very interesting as some of it does ring true. So far anyway.

[confusedNC]

Hi snow

Hope you're ok. I bought a book called 'should I stay or should I go'. I started to read it a few days before husband finally told me it was over. It's on amazon.

Thing is... You're rationalising. I did it for years. Still am though now it's making sense. Intelligence means we can do that and then it keeps us there in a weird way.

Whatever name you find for your husband, sociopath, personality disorder, narcissism... The result is the same. Nobody can make you reach that conclusion. You'll do it when you're ready. But keep talking. Ring women's aid.

That feeling of stress, not understanding what's happening because it shouldn't be like this, wanting to believe we are being melodramatic cos that's easier to accept, none of it can be sustained. It takes you around and around. But one day you'll see the exit from that hellish roundabout, and you'll go. X

[snowflake02]

Was the book helpful? I'm having enormous trouble answering that question for myself! But that is probably because part of me is still trying to make excuses for him.

[confusedNC]

I think it probably would have been useful but the decision was taken out of my hands. I asked husband directly what was happening and he calmly told me it was over and had been for years.

The book is by lundy bancroft. He writes on emotional abuse too. This book tries to assess the problem. Whether you can fix it or not (I'm simplifying).

It might be useful. I'd send it but I'm in chaos of moving soon so stuff all over the place.

What trying to say though is all this reading, writing threads etc... Whilst useful, is just part of the reluctance to do what you know. I wanted an answer. To know that splitting up was what had to happen. I suppose I just didn't want to be responsible for such huge choice that impacts on my son so greatly.

I think carry on reaching out, talking, reading but don't let the search for an answer keep you where you are. I hope yiu will just gradually gather the strength to go.

[snowflake02]

Thank you, everything you have said is exactly right, but I hadn't thought about it like that. I really don't want to be responsible for breaking up our family and I am so in the habit of justifying myself for everything I do and don't do, that I am going round in circles trying to make sure I have a water tight justification for whatever happens next. I need to learn to trust my own judgement again.

[Adarajames]

You are not responsible, he is for behaving in a manner that makes it impossible for you to stay together!

[Lweji]

You may be the one who decides to split, but he is ultimately responsible because he has broken the trust and respect that should exist in a relationship.
He has broken his vows.

[confusedNC]

Adara and Lweji are spot on. I now know that for myself, but appreciate it feels like you are 'pushing the button'. You need to get your head around that. HE is responsible not you.

[tipsytrifle]

snowflake - it is likely that you won't be able to trust your own judgement while you are with this man; you won't be able to because you keep demurring to allow his judgement the time of day. He certainly isn't going to let you trust yourself, is he?

You do not have to justify anything to anyone. He is not your peer, he is your "owner". He is not your judge and jury, he is your oppressor.

It broke my heart to discover that you're still with him. A few months down the line and I can't help but morbidly try to count up how many times he has probably assaulted you since that first thread. How many new ways he has found to dominate you in daily life.

You and your dcs so deserve better than this. I hope in time you'll reach for it.

[snowflake02]

Thank you, I think I will need to remind myself of that often.

tipsytrifle - I think that part of the problem I am having in acknowledging what happened is that it hasn't happened again. I keep coming back to the thought that if he really raped me, surely he would have done it again by now? He has though continued to mess with my head, with all the minimising, denying, changing his opinions etc.

[Lweji]

It hasn't happened again yet.

It probably won't while you are challenging him about it, but the point is that it happened and more than once.
How can you go forward from that?
How can you relax in bed with him wondering if he will do it again the next time?

[tipsytrifle]

Are you absolutely sure it hasn't happened again?

Even if you think you're sure that doesn't change that it did happen. You seem determined to question yourself negatively ...with a view to disbelieving yourself every time

[confusedNC]

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/042523889X/ref=mw_dp_mdsc?dsc=1&qid=1409774796&sr=8-1&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[snowflake02]

Thank you, does look interesting

[Bambamboom]

Please, read through your original thread. How many times did you say no?
Please, recognise the fact that you were raped. I'm sorry, it sounds so harsh, but when I read your original thread that's exactly what I see.
He either doesn't see it as rape or is denying it until he's blue on the face because he knows how sick it is. Either way, is this the kind of man you want to be with?
Does he know your fear of becoming pregnant and why? Because if I had been something to horrific I would expect the person I love and apparently loves me to be seriously careful when it comes to sex, to protect you emotionally and physically.
This man clearly has no regard to either.
It really doesn't matter whether he recognises it as rape, either way, it happened and denying it/not recognising it is no excuse.
May I suggest seeking professional advise, maybe a counsellor to unpick what has happened to you & how you feel, maybe then you can make an informed decision.

[chockbic]

Its horrible the way he has you doubting your own mind.

Do you think there's a way to leave him?

[snowflake02]

Bambamboom He does know why I am so afraid of getting pregnant again, but he was fairly absent throughout my pregnancy due to work, so perhaps he just doesn't get quite how serious it was or quite how frightening it was for me.

chockbic If he still can't see what he has done, or if there is ever any further abuse of any sort I will end it. Or least that is what I am planning to do. If he does accept what he has done, there is always the possibility he will change his mind again of course. I haven't thought too much about that possibility yet. I guess if that happened I would also end it.

Thank you everyone for giving me a boost of strength and self belief.

[Vivacia]

perhaps he just doesn't get quite how serious it was or quite how frightening it was for me.

What other, less savoury, reasons could there be?

chockbic asks an important question, Do you think there's a way to leave him?

[tipsytrifle]

i really meant this - am repeating it because I think you are sidestepping truth :

it is likely that you won't be able to trust your own judgement while you are with this man; you won't be able to because you keep demurring to allow his judgement the time of day. He certainly isn't going to let you trust yourself, is he?

I would only add that because he won't ... you can't ...

[snowflake02]

I agree that there is some truth in what you say tipsytrifle but I think that I am now starting to be able to trust myself more than I could in the past, thanks to lots of counselling. Hopefully this will continue.

[PacificDogwood]

If he does accept what he has done, there is always the possibility he will change his mind again of course.

"If" - so far he hasn't acknowledged what he has done (after initially naming it for you)
He does not even have to 'change his mind' to do it again

I truly hope I am wrong in how I am reading this and wish you all the best on your way forward, snowflake.