Can rape ever be a misunderstanding?

[snowflake02]

I posted here a while back under a different user name.

My husband still maintains that this was just a misunderstanding, which leaves me totally confused. I thought I was abundantly clear in saying 'no', so I'm not sure how he could have misunderstood. But what if he really did just get it wrong? Is it even possible to rape someone by accident? Or is it not rape if it is just a misunderstanding?

I am at a total loss as to how we/I move on from this (and everything else), especially when I feel that he is not acknowledging what actually happened. I feel that he needs to acknowledge it in order to really apologise. Or is this unreasonable of me?

But perhaps I am wrong, maybe it was nothing more than a misunderstanding? His refusal to call it anything else is making me doubt myself again.

[snowflake02]

Thank you so much for all the responses. These and the responses to my previous thread have been so helpful to me.

The responses to my last thread gave me the final little push I needed to be able to name it (in my head at least, don't think I could say it outloud). But since then it has been bought up in our couples counselling and he is still sticking to the fact it is a misunderstanding. (He did apologise though). This and the fact that our counsellor doesn't seem to have a problem with him denying it was rape has made me doubt myself all over again as I thought perhaps I might be missing something if she thinks it is reasonable for him to think it was a misunderstanding. But your responses have once again given me the strength to believe that I probably haven't got it all wrong after all. As uncomfortable as that is.

I will have one last attempt at trying to explain how i feel to him and if he still can't see it, then it gets tricky as I feel that then I probably do need to walk away from him. I know I probably should have done it long ago, but I am only now strong enough to even begin to consider doing that. If we stay together, I'm worried that I will never be able to trust him fully again and that it will always be hanging over me that it might happen again. But if his behaviour towards me stays as it has been for the last couple of months (everything has been calm and 'normal') can I really justify breaking up our family and breaking my children's hearts?

[HandbagCrazy]

I've read your other thread. I understand that you're struggling with this because the person in question is your husband but he raped you. If I read your last thread right, you have a daughter. I imagine when she is the right age you will be drumming it into her - no means no. You have the right to say no, no matter who it is or how far it's gone. The same applies to you.

What he did you to is horrific, and what he's doing now is vile. He is fucking with your head to stop you leaving. He is not a nice man. He is not a good father. And he is pathetic excuse of a husband. A good husband would make you feel loved, safe and protected, even when they're annoyed at you.

Please talk to women's aid. They will have seen this before and understand what your feeling.

And a poster on another thread posted something maybe you should apply - if a man she is seeing isn't someone she would be happy for her son to be like or her daughter to bring home then he's not good enough for her. Something to think about.

[Waltermittythesequel]

can I really justify breaking up our family and breaking my children's hearts?

By escaping a criminal? Yes, you can.

Your husband is a rapist.

If the police came to your door and told you he'd raped someone multiple times, would you stay?

Would you have couple's counselling?

[TaliZorahVasNormandy]

But if his behaviour towards me stays as it has been for the last couple of months (everything has been calm and 'normal') can I really justify breaking up our family and breaking my children's hearts?

Can you really justify it to your children when are older and they think this is normal or they are in therapy over it? If your justification is you did it for them, they wont thank you for it.

They dont want a mother who is on edge everytime she goes to bed, they need and deserve a happy mother.

He will never understand or care enough to understand how you felt, he will do it again, because you are by staying telling him what he did was ok.

It was not ok.

[gobbynorthernbird]

He will be the one who has broken up your family. He will be the one who has broken your children's hearts. It is him. He raped you, more than once. He will probably rape you again. The relationship is over, you will never be able to trust him. And he (sorry to be so blunt) doesn't give a shit about you. If he did he wouldn't have raped you.

[TaliZorahVasNormandy]

and couple's counselling when abuse has a occurred is never a good idea.

[gobbynorthernbird]

Also, you shouldn't be having couples therapy with a man who abuses you. Any decent counsellor wouldn't continue.

[OxfordBags]

YES! You can and you must leave him. He has raped you on multiple times, that is more than enough justification. Look at it another way: at the moment, those children live with a sex offender who is a serious threat to their mother.

His sexually abusive nature will not exist in a vacuum alongside the rest of his behaviour and personality, he'll be abusive and controlling and unpleasant and selfish and disrespectful of the needs, wants, rights and boundaries of others in other ways, even if those are not sexual in any way. Living with someone who abuses their mother, even if they don't see the worst of it, ie the rapes, is abuse of them, mentally and emotionally. He is not a good father. A good father does not rape a child's mother. He is not fit to live with anyone, never mind kids.

Your right not to be raped trumps anything else. You cannot decide to tolerate sexual assault for anyone else's wellbeing. Divorce is not the worst thing that could happen to those kids - the worst thing that could happen to them is already a reality, because their mother is being raped, abused and gaslighted by their father. It's already the most heartbreaking thing ever.


He is being okay now, because he knows you know it was rape and he knows he's pushed his luck too far, and is trying to reel you back in and get you all confused about the truth. All abusers are nice sometimes. And besides, he is learning that he can rape you and get away with it, so that's fulfilling most of his need to abuse.

A final thought: how would you feel if you found out that your father had raped your mother repeatedly, but she'd stayed for the sake of you, her child (and any siblings you might have)? How horrified, guilty, and appalled would you feel?!

[snowflake02]

Couples counselling has so far proved to be of no help unfortunately. I realise now that I am very unlikely to get out of it what I had hoped - acknowledgement of what actually happened and then a genuine heart felt apology. Rather than a heart felt apology for misunderstanding me. But maybe it doesn't matter, as long as he is sorry? Or maybe I am looking for excuses again?

[TaliZorahVasNormandy]

But he isnt sorry and he never will be.

You need to stop making excuses for him, he raped you, would you tell your DD to stay with her DH if he raped her, would you be ashamed of your DS if he raped his DW?

[QuietTiger]

It was rape, no question.

I also read your original thread OP to my DH - just to get a male POV in case I had read it wrong. His reaction? I quote: "Rape - no question, why would someone do that? No, regardless of context, means NO."

He needs to go. Like others say, you deserve so much better.

[gobbynorthernbird]

He isn't sorry. He won't ever be sorry. He might end up feeling sorry for himself, if you leave.

[Waltermittythesequel]

Couples counselling has so far proved to be of no help unfortunately

That's because it doesn't work with abusers.

[BolshierAyraStark]

You said no, repeatedly. How exactly is he explaining that as a misunderstanding?

Not sure what you hope to achieve by having another conversation with him about it-will it make a difference to you if he admits it? It really shouldn't, he has no respect for you or your feelings, why would you want to stay with a man like that?-also if you do stay with him what does it show your children?

[BOFster]

Couple counselling is NOT appropriate in your situation. Can you get some counselling on your own? As you have seen, joint therapy is just helping him justify raping you to himself, and undermining your confidence. I'm so sorry you are going through this- I hope you find the strength to leave.

[snowflake02]

He has asked some of his family members for their take on the situation and they all agree with him (or at least so he says). I am so ashamed that they all know and even more ashamed that they think I am making unfounded accusations. This and the fact that the counsellor has never questioned his version of events has shaken my confidence in my ability to name it once again. Thank you all for making me feel like perhaps I'm not going mad and seeing things that weren't there after all.

[Lweji]

He can say what he wants, and he will try to minimise what he did, as any other criminal.

Also, stop joint counselling. One because it's not recommended in abuse cases, let alone being counselled with your rapist. FGS.
And second because your counsellor should be reported and sacked for continuing to counsel a couple where one claims there was rape.

I hope you call Women's Aid and Rape Crisis for a less biased view than your abusive husband.

[Lweji]

Or the police for that matter.

[MrsMarcJacobs]

This thread has shocked me, especially when you talk about your feelings. they sound like the feelings of someone who is in deep shock and only a very traumatic experience would trigger that. I am so sorry that this has happened to you.

[FairPhyllis]

He has raped you twice. He will probably do it again.

He is trying to rewrite your experience of reality by denying that it was rape. That in itself is abuse. He knows he raped you, he knows you know it, and now he is trying to mess with your perception of what happened in order to get himself off the hook.

The counselling isn't working because you are trying to rebuild a relationship with someone who is a rapist. He is not approaching it from the same loving, hopeful, respectful perspective that you are.

You are not going mad. What you are experiencing is cognitive dissonance. You are under extreme mental stress at the moment because, firstly, you are trying to reconcile the belief that your husband is a lovely man with the knowledge that he raped you. Secondly, your husband is adding further to your mental stress by denying that what you both know happened ever took place.

Stop the joint counselling and use Women's Aid to leave him.

[Waltermittythesequel]

Your counsellor should be struck off.

At your next session, tell him or her that you won't be coming back and that you will be reporting him/her.

Tell your husband that since he's getting second opinions, you will ask the police what they think.

[ImperialBlether]

Your counsellor sounds as disgusting as your husband. I wouldn't see her again.

You poor thing. You must feel like you're walking on eggshells around him.

[ImperialBlether]

Oh and any rapist who tells his mates about it will be telling them in a way that makes it sound as though there was consent or at the very least a misunderstanding. I don't blame you for hating the fact he's talked to them about it.

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

No it can never be misunderstood. No means no. Plain and simple there is nothing that is confusing about the word. You didn't just say no you pleaded. I read some of your initial post but I had to stop as I found it very very upsetting so Lord knows what you're like.
Yes it was Rape sweetheart. I'm so sorry this has happened to you and if he's done it once he will do it again.
Okay easy for me to say I'm just a name on the internet but I think you need to get out of this marriage. This is not a man and I use the term "man" very very loosley that you want around yourself or your children.
If I had my way Rapists would be castrated slowly and very very painfully.
Love support and flowers x

[Lweji]

He has asked some of his family members for their take on the situation and they all agree with him (or at least so he says).

I think the key here is "so he says".

Nothing coming out of his mouth can be trusted, particularly regarding this.
He won't say he is a rapist and should be in jail, will he?