Can rape ever be a misunderstanding?

[snowflake02]

I posted here a while back under a different user name.

My husband still maintains that this was just a misunderstanding, which leaves me totally confused. I thought I was abundantly clear in saying 'no', so I'm not sure how he could have misunderstood. But what if he really did just get it wrong? Is it even possible to rape someone by accident? Or is it not rape if it is just a misunderstanding?

I am at a total loss as to how we/I move on from this (and everything else), especially when I feel that he is not acknowledging what actually happened. I feel that he needs to acknowledge it in order to really apologise. Or is this unreasonable of me?

But perhaps I am wrong, maybe it was nothing more than a misunderstanding? His refusal to call it anything else is making me doubt myself again.

[ThinkIveBeenHacked]

If I were you id be doing everything in my power to remove my daughter from a home that housed a rapist.

[DustBunnyFarmer]

You have absolutely no evidence he has discussed this with family members or friends - just his say-so. I'd be roundly ignoring his claims. Either he's embellished/lied about the situation to his friends to show his actions in a more positive light or he's just telling you he's spoken to other people and hasn't. It's just another cynical ploy to convince you that your understanding of events is wrong. You have enough people here telling you that what you described on your previous thread is rape. I am assuming YOU didn't embellish or lie on your previous thread - in which case, believe us when we are supporting your view of events. Yes, he raped you. No matter what else he says or does, your initial understanding was correct. Hold on to that knowledge and act accordingly.

[DustBunnyFarmer]

Lweji beat me to it!

[thesmallbear]

Hi OP, I have read both of your threads and am almost in tears for you. Honestly, this is as bad as it gets! Please leave this man!

[OxfordBags]

I don't believe for one second that he really has told his family members about it and they agree that it was a misunderstanding. "Hey, Mum, let me go into intimate detail of my sex life and then you tell me if your baby boy is a rapist or not". Yeah, right.

Even if he did , he is going to have totally minimised and twisted the details to put himself in the best light possible, AND his family are not going to want to face up to the fact that this man they love, one of their own blood, is a raping piece of shit.

You should call his bluff on it, and ask to speak to the people he alleges he told. I bet there will be lies and excuses and blocking aplenty - because he never did it.

Everything about that just shows how messed up and obviously rapey this all is! If a man need to ask opinion about if he's a rapist or not, then he is a rapist. Non-rapists need no reassurance about being non-rapists.

Finally, your counsellor sounds dubious. No counsellor should be counselling a couple with abuse going on.

[Vivacia]

Is your counsellor via Relate, or some kind of Church, or what? I think this was asked on your previous thread, so apologies if you answered before.

There is no way he's said to any of his relatives, "I wanted sex, she kept saying no, but I did it anyway".

[snowflake02]

You are right, he probably didn't put it quite like that. The counsellor isn't through relate, but she is a member of all relevant organisations so thought she would know what she is doing. I don't really want to waste anymore money on it to be honest. I stupidly thought she would just name everything for what it is/was and he would have to take a long hard look in the mirror. That clearly isn't going to happen. Perhaps she isn't allowed to say that.

[LumpySpacedPrincess]

I doubt he has asked anyone at all.To be honest if he had that would be a huge invasion of privacy. I'm stunned that the councillor is okay with this, really stunned. It is a very clear case of rape and I am so sorry you have been through this.

[Vivacia]

I'm stunned that the councillor is okay with this, really stunned. It is a very clear case of rape and I am so sorry you have been through this.

This.

You sound as though you have a very small minority of people telling you the opposite of what you know to be true. This is incredibly confusing and harmful in my experience. I'm so sorry to hear that you're still with him.

[Audeca]

Could a rape ever be a misunderstanding? Well I suppose in the legal sense it is possible for there to be mitigating factors, but they wouldn't stop it being wrong or a crime.

I've just read your original post and all I can say is QuietTiger's husband is bang on the money. You mention in the second paragraph of your original thread that there was a bit towards the end that might be perceived by some as consensual (although it appears pretty clear that you were in shock). That doesn't matter and doesn't change what happened. Rape is rape.

Anyway, I'm posting because I wanted to add another male opinion to go along with QT's husband (in case anyone ever tries to minimise or dismiss your feelings or the responses here on some sort of gender basis). I don't have anything else to add (and feel I'm intruding a bit) other than to say there is some great advice here and that I hope everything works out well for you.

[PacificDogwood]

Please find counselling/support on your own - RapeCrisis are a good starting point.

I doubt that rape can ever be a 'misunderstanding' and certainly NOT in what you are describing

I cannot believe your counsellor did not support you more and in fact stop the sessions when your problems became apparent. You should NOT have counselling with him.

So sorry you are having to deal with this

[PacificDogwood]

RapeCrisis England and Wales

[Vivacia]

that there was a bit towards the end that might be perceived by some as consensual

Are you referring to the OP having stopped resisting and begging??

[Audeca]

@Vivacia

It was the bit about the condom. And I don't believe that changes what happened one bit. It was rape clear and simple.

I was just trying to say that I could imagine some people (not here but in real life) might twist that to try and minimise it somehow. I wanted to get across that that was bollocks and that anyone who did try to suggest that was wrong. Didn't phrase it very well though, apologies for that.

[Vivacia]

Ah, thanks for clarifying, glad I queried.

[Audeca]

No probs. Thank you for asking :) I didn't read it through properly before posting and, looking at it now, it does come across as ambiguous (which really wasn't my intention).

[alphabook]

I am genuinely curious to know how he thinks it can be a misunderstanding. He didn't hear you say "no, please no" over and over? He thinks you didn't mean it when you said no? I don't believe the first one and the second one shows he has zero respect for you.

I highly doubt he has told anyone about it, and if he had it would be a completely twisted and minimised version of events. You absolutely should not be having couples counselling with an abuser either. Please seek specialist help from Women's Aid or a rape charity, they are experienced in counselling people who have been through what you have suffered.

[KoalaKoo]

How has this not been gone through in counselling if that's what the counselling was for? Why does the counsellor think your husband made a mistake?

[snowflake02]

Very interesting to get another male perspective, thank you Audeca.

KoalaKoo - I can only assume that the counsellor thinks that there is a possibility that it might have been a simple misunderstanding as she hasn't said anything to suggest that she thinks this is unlikely. She certainly hasn't named it.

I have been seeing a therapist by myself for over a year now and she is fantastic. She is a very experienced rape crisis counsellor and it is thanks to her that I now see how abusive he had become. But I have had a few wobbles lately due to very unhelpful couples counselling.

[PacificDogwood]

Oh, I am very glad you have your own experienced counsellor

Well, couples' counselling does seem inappropriate for your situation and unhelpful to you. Do you feel you 'need' to continue with it? Why?

[snowflake02]

I did feel I needed to give it a very good try for the sake of the children, but I see now how we have achieved nothing in a couple of months and in fact it is actually unhelpful for me.

I have to decided what happens next, regardless of what we/I decide about the couples counselling. Is it really stupid to even consider trying to make it work? And to think he is genuinely sorry when he cannot admit what happenend? And really stupid to want to try and trust him in the future? So many questions.

[AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore]

How can he be sorry for something he insists didn't happen? In order to be sorry, you have to admit wrongdoing. He has not. He is not sorry.

[Vivacia]

OP you're children deserve a happy and safe mum.

I was going to try explaining how I think a man would behave who had genuinely mis-read the situation. But I just can't. I don't feel this is a possibility with what you described. I think I'd just be joining in with the collusion.

[Lweji]

It is not stupid, but damaging and useless.
He will feel justified and, sadly, I bet he will "misunderstand" you again, and again.

It is asking too much of you to try and "make it work" with a rapist and a gaslighter rapist at that. Your mental health will be affected, as your self esteem. Do not do it to yourself, or to your children.

Your children need a happy mum.

[PacificDogwood]

Of course what you are aiming for is not stupid, but likely very unrealistic and damaging to you (and by extension to your children).

How much is he 'trying to make it work'? Genuine question - what has his input been so far (other than denying that he did anything wrong)?