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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

Can rape ever be a misunderstanding?

180 replies

snowflake02 · 30/08/2014 14:04

I posted here a while back under a different user name.

My husband still maintains that this was just a misunderstanding, which leaves me totally confused. I thought I was abundantly clear in saying 'no', so I'm not sure how he could have misunderstood. But what if he really did just get it wrong? Is it even possible to rape someone by accident? Or is it not rape if it is just a misunderstanding?

I am at a total loss as to how we/I move on from this (and everything else), especially when I feel that he is not acknowledging what actually happened. I feel that he needs to acknowledge it in order to really apologise. Or is this unreasonable of me?

But perhaps I am wrong, maybe it was nothing more than a misunderstanding? His refusal to call it anything else is making me doubt myself again.

OP posts:

Report

Spadequeen · 31/08/2014 21:14

I don't think I could have gotten over it if he hadn't acknowledged it.

PacificDogwood · 31/08/2014 23:03

I do feel that it is broken. He has certainly broken my trust in him in various ways and I'm not sure there is a way back from that

So, which direction do you want the way forward to be?

You cannot rewrite the past and you cannot make him change, but you do have the power to change how you lead your life.
Your call.

OxfordBags · 01/09/2014 00:33

snowflake, he doesn't get to decide if it was rape or not. I also think it's very telling that he called it rape first. He was clearly naming it for what it was, to test you, IMO. He admitted he raped you, and then waited to see what you'd do. You stayed, you then accepted him saying it was a misunderstanding and other excuses. His test proved that he can get away with raping you. And he did it again, didn't he.

That's not blaming you, incidentally - 100% of all fault is his. But your staying does give him more confidence in his ability to get away with raping and abusing you. You cannot overlook this factor, and the very real danger he is to you.

snowflake02 · 01/09/2014 08:04

PacificDogwood - I think I need to remember that. I am not powerless anymore.

OxfordBags - I had never thought about it like that, very good point. And yes, he did do it again.

OP posts:

cailindana · 01/09/2014 08:07

It is your life snowflake. You don't have to justify anything to anyone. Heck look at your shithead of a husband, he raped you and expects you to just shut up about it and get on with your life. You can and should say "hang on a minute, I feel this way, regardless of what you think or feel and you can't tell me otherwise. My family might think you're not abusive, you might think it was a misunderstanding, but I think and know it was rape, and I will not accept it."

Spadequeen · 01/09/2014 08:16

Snowflake, our situations are very different, if he hasn't got it by now what he's done, he never will, proven by the fact he did it again, (so sorry, I didn't realise this).

You know what is right or wrong, you know what he did, your family don't know and have betrayed you again by not believing you. You need to speak to someone in real life who will listen to you and help you decide what you want to do next. It is your choice, not his, you get to decide if you want to continue this relationship, not him.

snowflake02 · 01/09/2014 12:10

The second time he certainly wouldn't see as rape as I didn't say no. I didn't say anything at all as I was intimidated because of how he had been behaving. I was afraid of how he would react if he knew I didn't want to. My therapist tells me this amounts to the same thing. (There is a bit more to it but that is the bare bones of it).

I am staring to put together a plan of what to do next. And I have decided not to return to the couples counselling for the time being.

Thank you so much for all the responses, they have been so helpful in trying to get my head together. I guess i Just needed some validation from someone other than my therapist about what happened as it wasn't coming from our couples counsellor.

OP posts:

Lweji · 01/09/2014 12:40

I was afraid of how he would react if he knew I didn't want to.

This alone suggests that there is much more abuse, including sexual abuse, than the rape itself.

ExH would sulk about not having sex. When he actually attacked me physically it was in great part because I had said no to sex. I could easily have said yes the next time because I was afraid that he might go off again. And, in my mind, that would be rape. He was certainly sexually abusive in that sense. To the point that I lost my sex drive with him.

cailindana · 01/09/2014 13:30

The second time was definitely rape, the only difference being he didn't need to coerce you as you knew there was no point in saying no. It doesn't matter what means a person uses to get you to comply, if they have sex with you without your consent it is rape. He is not stupid, he will have known from how you acted that you weren't interested but that didn't matter to him, he just wanted sex and there was no way he was going to take your wishes into account.

You need to get away from this guy as fast as you possibly can. He is dangerous.

PacificDogwood · 01/09/2014 14:13

It doesn't matter what you or him call it it was rape, the fact of the matter is that it has affected you deeply and negatively.

Reread OxfordBags post - she is likely spot on. He was telling you what he did, awaiting your reaction. He then changed his story.

I am v glad you are not going back to couples' counselling

OxfordBags · 01/09/2014 14:29

Sounds like he's training you to be a passive victim, too scared to say no, and told you're misunderstanding and giving unclear signals if you do. The basic message is the same, whether you say no or not: he's going to rape you no matter what. Your say, your rights, your body, your humanity doesn't matter. Most children and adults who are being repeatedly raped/abused stop saying no and fighting back (or, at least, as often or as much), because they know that it's going to happen anyway and standing up for themselves only makes it better.

I agree with Lweji on every thread that your fear of what would happen if you said no again reveals that there is a much bigger picture of abuse going on, some of it, I am sadly sure, that you have been trained by him to not even see is abuse.

I think that what you need to do, although it will be painful, is start to understand that these rapes are no isolated incidents of assault (although just one is enough to leave him, and get him prosecuted), but part of a wider picture of him abusing you which is now worsening into sexual abuse. It's a few rapes now, but things will descend until it's rape every time.

Gem124 · 01/09/2014 19:48

I feel so sad reading this. I hope you realise you deserve so much more than living with such an evil man. I hope you find the strength to walk away and be safe and happy xx

snowflake02 · 01/09/2014 21:30

There is more to it than just these two incidents. He has never been violent though. Mainly just messing with my head kind of stuff. But I hope I am now finally in a place where it won't get to me. Thanks to everyone here and lots of therapy I now know what I need to move forward, in either direction.

OP posts:

PacificDogwood · 01/09/2014 22:14

Mainly just messing with my head kind of stuff

There's no 'just' about that

PacificDogwood · 01/09/2014 22:14

Yikes, bolding fail.
I should go to bed...

OxfordBags · 01/09/2014 22:22

No need to be violent for it is to be very serious abuse. Also, you can't get much more of a physical abuse than rape. Psychological abuse is v serious too. What you've experienced is escalation: the psychological and emotional abuse wasn't giving him enough of a kick, so he moved onto sexually abusing you. One day, the odd rape won't be enough. Then one day, frequent, vaginal rape won't be enough. And so on.

I'm so glad to read that you are feeling more decisive. You already so strong, putting up with this; now it's time for a different kind of strong, deciding to not put up with it ever again.

Tiptops · 01/09/2014 22:28

No, rape can never be a misunderstanding. He heard you saying no, but chose to force himself on you anyway. I was raped by someone I didn't know well, I said no repeatedly and reported him to the police. It is absolutely your choice how to move forward from this, but maybe ask yourself if someone else did this to you how would you react? Sending you love and strength

snowflake02 · 02/09/2014 07:05

PacificDogwood I guess there isn't.

OxfordBags You are right, it has escalated. Your closing sentence is a really good way to think about it, thank you.

Tiptops I'm sorry to hear what happened to you and well done for going to the police. That is amazingly brave. If it had been someone else I would like to think I would have done the same. But then I always thought I would leave immediately if I found myself in any kind of abusive relationship...

OP posts:

Dinnaeknowshitfromclay · 02/09/2014 07:37

OP - look at it from another angle. Think about the act of sex or love making between two horny and willing consenting adults with a passion for each other- mutually, the foreplay, the kissing, caressing etc. Think about the length of time all this takes. (Even a quickie isn't that quick really.) Then think about what has happened to you. It's miles apart isn't it? The polar end opposite isn't it? The speed, the struggle, you actually saying no more than once. You were raped that is why. Just because in a daze you tried to get a condom trying a damage limitation exercise on him doesn't make it any less polar opposite from loving and consensual sex. Rape.
Worse - he messes with your head. You don't feel relaxed happy and settled now because no normal person would in your shoes.
You don't need any further reason to end this. You know in your heart why. If he asks you why, look right into his eyes, flare your nostrils and give him a look that should shrivel his balls to the size of walnuts. He will know why. Get this smug excuse for a man out of you life. You know what he did, he knows you know. Asking his family to back him up their opinion would be the last straw frankly.

snowflake02 · 02/09/2014 10:34

If it makes a difference, I didn't struggle because I thought he would stop when I said no. So I just kept saying it thinking he would stop any second. I didn't actually think he would do it anyway.

OP posts:

Lweji · 02/09/2014 11:19

You shouldn't have had to struggle with your loving partner, should you? A no should be enough.

cailindana · 02/09/2014 11:29

Why would it make a difference? That's a genuine question.

chockbic · 02/09/2014 11:33

You have to stop looking at yourself and what you did or didn't do. The blame lies entirely with him.

He has you doubting yourself and wondering if you've made a mistake. You haven't.

Can I ask was he charming to begin with?

snowflake02 · 02/09/2014 12:41

cailindana I just wondered if it made it less valid somehow, less real. Perhaps it makes it more likely that he genuinely misunderstood? It is a very hard thing to acknowledge, especially when he is your husband, which makes it easy to question what happened from every angle.

chockbic yes he is charming still. He is the last person anyone would imagine being abusive in any way.

OP posts:

chockbic · 02/09/2014 12:43

I thought he might be from the way he seems to get other people on his side.

Flip

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