Would it bother you never getting married?

[Wineandmorewine]

Hi all,

DP and I have been together for 6 years, we have a DD2 and I am currently 5 months pregnant with our second, have also just bought our own house and due to move into that in November.

Last night we were discussing the upcoming wedding of our best and DP stated that he has decided he never wants to get married and is totally against it! This has come as a bolt out of the blue as it is something which we had always planned to do (have had many conversations about what type of wedding we would like etc) and also something that is very important to me. When I asked why the change of heart he said that he has seen so many go wrong eg. His parents and grandparents and he wouldn't want to put out DC through that.

Whilst I understand his point, I also said that regardless of whether or not we are married, a break up would effect our children either way and that if we are married we will be in a better place legally.
So I'm asking, what would you do? Do I give up on ever getting married and keep things as they are? Do I leave him in pursuit of marriage?? Which seems silly as it's him I want to marry! Do I try and convince him or is it best I leave it and hope he changes his mind?
Has anyone ever been in this situation?
Thanks for any advice

That's right Vivienne - but if you are both named on the mortgage then the asset automatically passes to the other, regardless of whether or not you are married.

Husbands and wives would be able to successfully challenge the will and be looked on favourably by the pension trustees, SirChenjin.

Not necessarily - it would depend on many factors.

The house would not automatically pass to the other, it would depend on how the ownership of the house was written. That is the difference between tenants in common and joint tenants.

Hopefully a lawyer can confirm but as I understand it you can disinherit a spouse under English law (Scotland may be different) - but the spouse would have a right to make a claim on the estate which may or may not be awarded.

A tenant in common ownership is not usual though - and both parties are aware of the consequences upon the death of the other.

Pensions I've already mentioned further back - I will have no right to any pension entitlement if anything should happen to DP. But we know this.

All of our life assurances (joint mortgage-associated), trust funds, savings accounts, etc, are in joint names, needing mutual agreement for change. We've had a couple of payouts on joint policies in the last couple of years, and they had to be paid into a bank account containing both of our names. Any changes we wanted to make to them over the years had to be signed by both of us. We have made sure that the house will pass from one to the other.

Wills, another matter, and appreciate that could be a cause for concern for some.

Also you can sever a joint tenancy, so although you may own your home as joint tenants today, it can be unilaterally changed.

www.landregistryservices.com/samples/england_and_wales/eng_notice_of_severance.pdf

No - if you are joint tenants ie both owners you cannot unilaterally change from that to a tenants in common ownership. Unless both parties agree (and as per the document you linked to), acknowledge receipt and sign accordingly then one party cannot simply decide to change the form of ownership unilaterally.

More information is available on the Gov.UK site here

If one party wants to screw the other party over, they are going to find a way, married or not.

SirChenJin - YOU are wrong. From that form you linked to:

www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/change-from-joint-tenants-to-tenants-in-common

1. Change from joint tenants to tenants in common

This is called ‘severance of joint tenancy’. You can make this change without the other owners’ agreement.

Generally with a deed from court, if you are trying to do it without the other person agreeing.

Seriously - if you own a house together, one person cannot change the ownership status in complete secrecy behind the others' back.

Are you sure that you can sever a joint tenancy unilaterally.?

That's what I thought Thurlow.

I thought this but couldn't be sure. If you own a house together you usually each own half. Could the other person leave their half of the house to anyone they like. But if the partners were married then it would be the marital home so would come under different regulations. And I think under the law in Scotland children are entitled to one third of cash but not property by law.

You can't change the proportion you own but you can sever a joint tenancy ownership and you do not need the consent of the other party.

www.gov.uk/joint-property-ownership/change-from-joint-tenants-to-tenants-in-common

It's there in black and white.

When you own a house together you don't own half the house each, the law considers that you both own the house, if that makes sense.

The law allows you to sever the tenancy without the agreement of the co-owner but only in extreme circumstances, and it is something that requires lawyers and the court.

With the very clear first line Serve a written notice of the change (a ‘notice of severance’) on the other owners

So not in secret. A husband can't do this in secret without informing his wife. Once they have written notice, they can get their own legal advice and contest it.

I rather think getting written legal notice that your OH wants to sever your tenancy might be a slight hint that something is wrong in your marriage...

Married people can sever beneficial joint tenancies too but it would make no difference to the financial remedies available in the event of a divorce. All marital assets however they are owned are distributed according to the sharing principle.

It's worth reading this and considering the contrasting position had they not been married:

www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2014/08/27/the-sharing-principle-in-action-by-john-bolch/

Nobody said in secret. We said unilaterally.

Thurlow - you are very wrong about all your assumptions.

www.lawdox.co.uk/severjt.htm

Here is a link for a DIY severance notice, it costs £9.99

"The completed notice then needs to be served (given or delivered to them) on the other party, together with a "without prejudice" letter (also part of our pack). Once the notice has been served the joint tenancy has been severed and there is nothing that the other owner can do to prevent this."

That advice wouldn't even be worth the paper it is written on. They aren't even registered with the Law Society.

This is a very odd argument though.

MN is full of great advice about the pros and cons and legalities of marriage v co-habitation. All anyone can do is read the advice and make their own decision. Hopefully without accusations of being a neglectful parent if you're not married.

Thurlow - They don't need to be regulated by the Law Society as they are just publishers of documents.

www.thesolicitorsgroup.co.uk/Downloads/Articles/14May2012/SeveranceoftheJointTenancy.pdf

I looked this house ownership up. Seems to bethis if the advice isaccurate

Joint Tenants - each person owns half the house.

Tenants in common - They jointly own the house and the house automatically passes to the survivor if one partner dies.

Most houses are owned by Joint Tenants. Now if you're not married doesn't this mean your partner can leave their half of the house to anybody they wish. That's how I would understand it.