How do I handle BIL...after what he said?

[whiteblossom]

The last time I saw my BIL was two years ago. Ive refused to have him in the house since. DH keeps in touch (barely). BIL lives 2.5 hours drive away (but gets free flights & paid accommodation/food allowance but stayed with us)

The last time BIL stayed with us, the following morning he said that we don't make him feel welcome and that our lives continues as if he's not there...I pulled him up on it and gave examples of when we have supported him and welcomed him and he started back tracking but the damage had been done.

Before BIL comes, I clean the house from top to bottom, collect him from the airport/station, Cook meals I know he likes, table set all pretty with candles etc, get booze in, set up guest bed and make sure he is comfy, chat about his/our lives..I honestly don't know what more we could do? Ive even offered our home as a bolt hole when things get tough for him (relationship break down)

We have a ds who was 5/6 yr old when he said it, so by our lives going on yes ds has a rountine, goes to school/eats etc. We sometimes have the tv on in the background but no one takes any notice of it, no one sits watching it and ignoring him, we sit chatting to him at the dining table.

He's never offered to help clear up or help us with anything, He's never so much as brought a bottle of wine, he's never invited us over to his house...yet he's gets paid by work while at ours, so he makes money on it.

and yet dh invited him to stay again this week for a night...

"Well after the phone call he arrived home and shouted at me some while imin floods of tears so I went out for a hour or two. Dh couldn't care less".

Who is the he in your first sentence, your H?. You were wise to go out in such circumstances.

I think your H would rather lose you over his family; he is so deep in FOG here that he cannot or will not see that his actions are just hurting his own family unit now. His unwillingness to act re his brother has simply allowed this ongoing dysfunction within his own birth family to continue.

I would be asking your H what he hopes to achieve from having any sort of relationship with his brother because he is allowing himself to be completely walked over. His parents likely have had a major role also in allowing this to all happen in the first place, such problems go back many years and this is all the results of deep seated conditioning to be the scapegoat. I think as well that your H is waiting for his brother to say sorry and apologise - but he will not do so. Your H is also unable to accept at all that his brother is not at all the person he thought he was, people do go back for more in the hopes their tormentor will somehow say sorry and change. As mentioned already such people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

People should not have to be managed. Your H may well still want a relationship with his brother but at what cost and I would argue that the cost is too high. It could actually kill any love you have for your H. You certainly do not have to have any sort of relationship with his brother and you do not have to accept any such visits (albeit infrequent) by BIL at all.

I would have said you should grin and bear it for you dh's sake right up until your 'd'h started shouting at you . In your position I'd be taking my child(ren) and staying with my mum for a couple of weeks, then having a conversation with my h about how I expected to be treated (by him and your BiL).

Has your DH shown any improvement in temper since ladt night?

The reason you can't let it go is because you were the one making all the effort - whereas it should have been your husband making the effort. And he threw it back in your face as if your efforts were nothing.

How are you not 'getting over it' - are you bringing it up every 5 minutes?

I would have said you should grin and bear it for you dh's sake right up until your 'd'h started shouting at you angry.

^ This ^

My initial response was if your BIL was annoyed at you carrying on with your life as normal, how much fun would it be to organise a sleepover of half a dozen of your DS's closest and noisiest friends for the exact evening your BIL was staying... Then I noticed you were 8 months pregnant, so figured it would just be too knackering for you to make the point with.

I'd suggest organising the sleepover then taking yourself off to your mums for a rest whilst DH dealt with the lot ...

It's his brother . You are pregnant. You have already told your DH why you don't particularly like him. So , when he visits ( and it is your DH's home as well as yours ) just smile sweetly , lie on the sofa (peeling grapes if needs be , looking tired and very pregnant ) .... and let DH Do everything that needs doing for his brothers visit .... cooking, sheets , washing said sheets etc. Chat animatedly to his brother , show interest in what he says / does . This way you can not be accused of not making him welcome , and your DH finds out what work is involved in having him stay .

My bet is that the visits get less and less as time goes on , but if they don't , just continue in this vein . You really do need to be a bit more cunning about all this . Honesty and openness has it's place but it hasn't worked so far has it ? So another strategy is needed. It might work well for all three of you in the long run. BIL gets to visit, DH gets a relationship with his brother and you don't have to so any of the work involved . Result.

Typo.... " have to do any of the work "

Funky, your right it was me making most of the effort so Im most offended by his comments. Attila, DH thinks comments were in fact driven by their parents. However I see BIL as a grown man not a puppet.

I don't bring it up every five mins, this happened two years ago and Ive not seen seen nor spoken to bil in that time. BIL asked to come to ours, a year after and I said to dh by all means see him but he's not welcome here so dh cancelled...that was his choice. DH thinks that because it was two years ago I should let it go and forget it. This has only come up because he is coming to ours and I have refused to go out of my way or make any effort for him ie cleaning/cooking etc.

I promised dh that I would make the effort about 9 months ago and Ive stood by that by allowing him into our home- overnight and vowing to be civil. I think that's holding up my end of the bargain. Its a damn site more than he would have got a year ago.

impossible

donkey after shouting at me last night, I went out for a few hours then came home to bed, I was exhausted. This morning he made me a brew in bed (which he does everyday) he gave me a quick kiss and walked straight out he then left for work about an hour or so later and just said bye. He's not been in touch all day.

I strongly suspect dh is still fuming with me. He simply wants me to forget and pretend nothing was said. I really struggle with being two faced!! BUT I was willing to give it a shot. I think he might be expecting an apology from me.......

So..you make a huge effort and he accuses you of not making an effort; so you say 'screw you I won't make an effort' and your husband shouts and screams this time.

You can't win. At least, if you make no effort then you won't have gone to any actual trouble and wasted those efforts.

He is like a dog with a bone about this isn't he.

Hearing about families with a golden child and scapegoat I was intrigued when it was explained that even if the scapegoat - parent relationship breaks down in later life, very often there's still a strong bond between scapegoat and the sibling who was the golden child. In some cases the golden child is embarrassed by their elevated status and is at pains to try and make the scapegoat feel loved and included.

In BIL's case he may not be an easy or particularly likeable character but it seems DH is keen not to exclude him. It seems an extraordinary overreaction to nag away to the point of reducing you to tears.

Sidetracking now but as you are expecting DC2 I wonder how much of his own upbringing DH recalls and whether his short temper and refusal to let this drop is something to do with the memories of his boyhood. He must have had conflicting feelings about his younger brother.

Don't let him browbeat you into giving in by him doing the ol 'silent treatment' now.

He'll get over it.

You wont.

(((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))))

Lady!!! Why the fuck are you putting up with this?!!?

Go and stay with your parents for a week.

What kind of piece of shit starts shouting at his pregnant wife because of something like this? And then comes home and starts shouting at her again?!?!?

NUH uh UUUH!!!

Fucking wanker!!

Wow I would be telling your dh that neither him or his brother are welcome and they can both trot off to the nearest hotel.

More (((((((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))) and a Bump to get this to the top of the page for you.

What kind of piece of shit starts shouting at his pregnant wife because of something like this? And then comes home and starts shouting at her again?!?!?

This

I agree with kaykay. Your BIL sounds like an asshole, but so does your DH. Someone needs to be looking after you right now, OP.

I came on yesterday to update but I was just so upset I didn't know where to start, I still don't really.

DH rang me yesterday I guess with a view too resolve- but in his favour! He was pissed off that he had had to ring me, that I had given him the silent treatment and that I wont do just one thing for him and 'let this go'. dh was still shouting and ranting, I was in tears (would like to say I rarely cry!)

Lots was said in that conversation (if you can call it that) in the end I agreed to forget and pretend nothing had happened because otherwise 'we can continue in silence and Ill cancel my DB coming and we can have the same argument over and over'. He ordered me to do what he wants! At which point I asked who the hell I was talking to because this wasn't the person I knew...DH said the clue was in how angry he was as to how much it meant to him, how far I have pushed him. That I should know that his family is an emotive subject for him. That given how angry he is I should just agree! I said that you don't scream and shout to get your own way. In the end I agreed but also said that our relationship would never be the same. I meant that in how he has treated me over this, the way he has spoken to me. DH said that was the most hurtful thing I have ever said to him...

So dh got his way, BIL IS staying over night (the cheeky fucking twofaced bastard) My marriage has been damaged. I have been pushed to the edge and I really mean that.

DH left to go to work this morning, kissed me goodbye and asked if I was ok, said I didn't look well.....I burst into tears and said it had been a very upsetting few days, to which he replied I know Im shattered lets just forget it and move on.

I have never seen this side to my dh in 13 years. Im devastated. Not even after I have agreed to what ever the fuck it is that he wants, oh yeah lets pretend game has he apologised for all the screaming and shouting and ranting and totally losing the plot and redusing me to tears for four days. all while 37 weeks pregnant.

By the way I agreed nine months ago to stand by his relationship with his brother because dh had agreed to have a 2nd baby. So during in the row he of course brought up this by saying "after everything I have done for you" This is partly what pushed me to the edge- to think that this is not what he wants and I have somehow forced him into it.

DH later denied being forced into having a 2nd baby said he/we had been incredibly happy and that made this all the worse for him.

sorry this is so long I just wanted to update, that's so much for the support when I have needed it.

Well, he is showing his true colours. What does he mean exactly 'forget it happened?' - are you meant to run around after him again?

So sorry to hear how things have gone.

What are your feelings on where this leaves you now?

Can you go and stay somewhere else when your BiL is around. Or are you going to do the 'absolutely nothing' option and be the 'entertainer' side of the deal (if you can bring yourself to do that)?

Blossom it does look as though your relationship will be damaged by this. Not just the way he is about his arse brother but the shouting, the uncaring of you and his unborn child... I couldn't get over the lack of concern. And it's not going to get easier with a newborn in a few weeks.
I predict that this will fester .

It is easier for your DH to say forget it happened because he cannot or will not face up to the fact that his family of origin are all completely dysfunctional and that includes his brother. Its too painful a realisation for them.

The points that DonkeysDontRideBicycles made earlier are indeed correct. Your H is also so deep in FOG with regards to his brother that his position is simply further damaging his own family unit. People from dysfunctional families like your DHs end up playing roles. Such people keep going back for yet more familial abuse because they still hope that the person (in this case his brother as the golden child) will somehow change and say sorry. You know that will never happen. His brother's arrival will also be the icing on a very bad cake.

You however, can maintain and further raise your own boundaries here and you do not have to have any sort of relationship with his brother.

Right, he should not have shouted at you.
But I find all through your posts I'm thinking - move on!

Your BIL sounds like a wanker. But this was TWO YEARS ago. I don't think time means your feelings aren't valid, but I do think the horse has bolted for apologies or whatever from him (the BIL)

Yes, you cleaned the house and put candles out -wtf? - but that was your choice.
Your H has said he'll do it all this time. Is that genuine? If so, that's a good response.

You haven't had him to stay for TWO YEARS. So it's not like he's forcing BIL on you constantly.

9 months ago you agreed to try to support the relationship - to me a single over night stay 9 months later isn't a big ask.

He shouldn't have shouted at you, and I see that you would take yourself away from that. But if he were posting, he'd be saying about you storming out.

He brought you tea and kissed you - in my world, that's an olive branch, not pretending it didn't happen.

I'm intrigued that the two of you swapped a baby decision for you accepting the BIL. Seems an odd pact.

Tbh, I think you need to have a good think about your marriage away from this issue. Is it good? Genuinely?

I am "siding" with you because you shouldn't be shouted at. End of.
Yet I feel confused why this is such a big deal.
To me, the brother is an arse, you grin and bear it for one night in two years, with H doing everything. End of.
Not trying to be mean. I just don't get why it's such an issue.

I think this cuts both ways.

Your DH has explained how important a relationship with his brother is.

You don't like his brother, but one visit every couple of years is fairly low impact on you.

You and DH both want your own way - you have both behaved badly over this.DH shouldn't have shouted at you in his frustration but 4 days of crying over an overnight visit is also extreme. You sound a bit exhausting and are making a mountain out of a molehill.

You and DH are a team and need to pull together. Marriage is a long haul and requires compromise.

I think you were overreacting about the brother-in-law. I second the advice above about not putting yourself out, and perhaps stretching to cooking for an extra person if you're already putting some beans and toast on.

However, the shouting is seriously out of order. I would never, ever, accept that. I really don't know where you go from here after that.

What cabrinha and lairypoppins both said.

Why...why are you making such a huge fuss, with all this crying and upset, over your husband's brother coming for one night?

Ok...I get it, he didn't appreciate your effort with the candles two years ago and made a comment that hurt your feelings and pissed you off...but it was nothing major...he did not insult you personally down to your very soul....he's just a bit of an arse who said something stupid.
He's still your dh's brother. Your dh still loves him despite.

What is all this lamenting over it, and making your husband fight for his right to have his brother over all about?

No your dh shouldn't have shouted...but you're being bloody unreasonable and he has probably had enough of it.