Has anyone else been in this situation - husband calls me a f*cking b*tch

[nappyrat]

And I am so confused.

We recently had our first baby, and when he did it in front of him (had done it before then a fair bit, but it got worse when the baby arrived), but doing it in front of the baby basically signalled a new response from me, which was that I felt it was completely unacceptable.

12 months on, he has now moved out today, at my request.

And it has suddenly hit me that I may never now have the life I imagined, with him. And my baby may never now have her father living with him. And that at Christmases when we have to share our baby, I will feel like dying because my baby isn't with me, like he should be, because I am his mum....:(((( Crying at this...I can't bear the idea of this...

He seems to do it because he loses his temper. Which he does fairly regularly. Always later blames it on me, but then maybe it is partly due to me, I know I behave badly at times - am lazy, unreasonable etc. This is fact, it's not me being 'poor me'.

He is a professional man, earns £100k+ in a blue chip company, is generally well respected. And actually I think he loves me. He just cannot control his temper.

He has never hit me, we've been together 10+ years.

Has anyone else been in this situation? I could really do with some advice. I am so confused. There are lots of good points about the relationship, but I have been brought up to think that his behaviour is completely unacceptable. But on many other levels, he is a good man.

Fgs. Just because he calls the OP a FB every couple of moths does not mean he's an abuser. Those might be instances of Abusive language but she has said he's a good person. Good people can and do exist even if they do swear at their dp now and then.

Also he's entitled to say he works bloody hard! I bet he does. Yes he may or may not have had trouble coming to terms with becoming a father (both men and women can take time to adapt) but I just don't buy that he's an abuser. She has said she is controlling etc so she might need to give him a copy of Lundy Bancroft (sorry op).

QL, the absolute very worst thing she can do if he is indeed controlling is to hand him a copy of "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft. It is not for him to read, it is for the victims of said controlling types. I also think you have missed the whole point by a country mile.

You did absolutely the right thing by getting him to move out; he needs to stay gone from your life.

It is not your fault nappyrat that he cannot control his temper, it is his and his alone. I would reckon as well he is like this only with yourself and not with other people. Abusive men often use the victim as an excuse for their abuse to continue.

Abusive types actually like women like you nappyrat who describe themselves as you do. You have yourself written, "I am a very 'assertive' woman - very independent, quite loud - it's not like I am some trampled on wife". But you were all the same trampled on by him. Inadequate abusive men like this man actually hate women, all of them and disrespect them all. He saw you as someone to punish for being the kind person you are, to bully you and to take you down to the level that he is at.

Morning - just wanted to say thanks for the posts after I'd left last night. I'm going to pop back later to read them properly and respond, as I think lots of you have some great insight / suggestions.

x

No meerkat she said she was controlling

Country mile me?

QL - will specifically come back to your point about me potentially being at fault, as I think I probably am - as well as him! I'm not offended or upset at you questioning the fact that my behaviour may be wrong. It is helpful to see where I my be going wrong, too.

Quitelikely, what makes you think this is the only thing which has led posters to that conclusion?

OP has also said:

• He loses his temper "quite regularly" (later clarified as about once a month).
• When he does he ALWAYS blames her. Now, no matter how unreasonable, lazy, annoying (lovely way to think about your wife, BTW) she is being is it really fair to say it is her fault EVERY time?
• He doesn't use this language around anybody else. ie, he knows it's not OK.
• He's agreed that it's okay but he's not actually doing anything to change his behaviour. As OP says it's not like he's trying but occasionally loses it once in a blue moon. It's happening all the time.
• When OP confessed that she can't take this any longer he has exploded in anger, turned it all back on her, and then given a non-apology in which he states that it's her fault (again). He has not shown concern for how his behaviour is affecting her or the baby in that moment, all his concern is is that he is going to lose something. He is refusing to see that he may have had any part in what he stands to lose.

In contrast:

• OP is quite ready to admit that she may have had some part in this. In fact throughout this thread she's latched onto any response or thought she's had which means it might be her fault and hoped to go along with that. In other words, she's keen to fix this issue and change things and is willing to admit that she might be wrong.
• Similarly, she is acknowledging a lot of good points of her husband and yet has quite a low opinion of herself. Compare:

him unacceptable (x2) professional, earns a lot generally well respected loves her cannot control his temper (on other levels) he is a good man (x2) can be loving generous honest often uses this language agrees it is wrong (but does not change) clever witty good looking bright driven emotional blackmail

her
behave badly at times
lazy
unreasonable
demanding (x2)
unrealistic (x2)
has too high expectations of him
assertive
independent
loud
amazing/good mum (not explicitly stated, implied)
has called names (one incident of swearing) but not usual behaviour
is controlling
can push his buttons, sometimes on purpose
bullying behaviour

There is a LOT of negative self belief in there. And I know it wouldn't be the norm to come onto this kind of thread and say "I'm so wonderful and my husband is horrible" but these kinds of things - lazy, demanding, unrealistic, high expectations, are exactly the kind of things that abusers believe about their partners, and hence, what those partners come to believe about themselves.

In fact I think she has quite low expectations of him. Saying this might be OK as long as he doesn't really mean it and it doesn't happen often and it never happens in front of the child (which is a fallacy, children are always aware even if things like that never happen directly in front of them). OP also refers to problems since the baby has arrived and keeps alluding that she is so attached to the baby, almost as though this is a problem (it's NOT.) Making a wild jump and guess here which I may be wrong about, but I would guess that he is minimally or not at all involved with childcare and housework. Again, low expectations.

When abusers claim to be abused it is clear from the micro language they are using that their mindset is entitled and that the wrongdoing they feel they are on the receiving end of is hugely skewed. Anything bad they are doing in retaliation or "self defence" is often hugely out of proportion, and also feels justified to them (even if they feel/know it's over the top, the basis of the action feels justified, like a parent who feels guilty for shouting too much at their child but concedes that they had to shout to teach them a lesson). It's not enough to look at the macro, the obvious, what's on the surface. It's not about "he said" "she said", it's about looking at the other interactions around this.

Sorry for the giant post.

The only "wrong" thing you have been doing so far OP, is to expose your child(ren) to a relationship between their parents that contains abusive language towards each other. Whether that is one way, or both ways, the outcome is the same. Children learn what they see/hear and the lessons they will be absorbing are damaging ones.

Forget the "blame game" and ask yourself if this was a healthy environment for them. If your honest answer is no, then you know what you have to do is end it.

(clarified) "...since the baby has arrived..." = problems with his adjusting to being a father, which should have been a point on its own. Not that it couldn't be a separate issue, but none of these things happen in a vacuum and I think it's really likely that the two attitudes/underlying feelings causing the issue are related if not one and the same.

My dh and I have both been guilty of bad behaviour and bad tempers, however we both know we need to sort it out and are trying to always improve and work together.

If your husband is incapable of admitting he is in the wrong and if he doesn't acknowledge how harmful his behaviour could be to your child then you have a problem and you cannot resolve it.

You are better than that as you are actually admitting your own faults and will no doubt do everything you can to protect your child.

What makes him call you it? Is there a specific point of an argument? Or does he just come out and say it?

If he cares about you he will respect this boundary and beg to come back-if he doesn't you are better off without him.
Is it absolutely clear to him why you have asked him to leave and what changes you want?

Wow, I am so overwhelmed by how much trouble you have all taken to help me out here. It is so helpful, I cannot tell you how useful this is.

I am feeling so much better about my decision today. I know it will get tough again in future but for now I am standing firm still!.

Sorry for the epic post but I wanted to respond as well as I could - baby asleep! ;)

QL - this is why I am so confused. Because when I have just looked up some bits of Lundy's book, it suggests maybe I'm the abuser...! I think we both display traits of abusive behaviour maybe. Although the way I see it (but perhaps this is not fair of me...or balanced and it's not what husband would say I am sure) is that the way he behaves makes me respond in a way which is v out of character for me I think.

Alpha - he has lost it in other situations, just never at work cos he'd probably loose his job. So he threatened to hit someone once at a hobby we both do (never did it, and I don't think would have, but someone had a word with him about it - husband was bang out of order here I agree, no excuses). I think the respect question is a good one - I think a lot of it boils down to a lack of respect for each other - the respect has been eroded over the time we've been together...friends used to laugh at how close we were - like we'd always go to the loo (Sorry TMI!) in front of one another when a lot of friends wouldn't dream of doing this. But now I just see all this as a massive lack of respect for one another. I think it's at the crux of the issue probably.

43%burnt - examples of controlling behaviour - I ask him not to go flying at the weekend because I want to do something as a family...or I used to go on at him a lot to come home earlier from work (works in London, 1.75 hr commute and leaves 5.30 so not home until 7.30 ish) even though he found this v difficult with colleagues etc, or I wouldn't buy him fizzy energy drinks when I did a shop because I don't approve of them...etc. Can't think of anything much worse than this TBH.

Bertie - thanks, your list is very helpful to me...I have actually been worried that I am unusually attached to my baby - 14 months so not really a baby - I adore him, I cannot tell you how he has changed my life. I love him so much it sometimes makes me cry!! Stupid nappyrat!!! ;) I think I am a bit daft about him to be honest - partly I think this has arisen because things have been so shit in my marriage it has made me cling onto ds even more so...which I know is probably not a good thing for either of us, but hopefully that will start to relax now husband is out of the way. I also agree that there is a lot of stuff interlinked, it's not at all simple. His dad died 4 months ago, at the peak of our argument phase and although I did my best to put things aside and try and support him, it wasn't as it has been in the past so I think he's very resentful of me for that. Also he has just not adjusted to being a husband or father (together 10+ yrs, married 2) - don't know why, but possibly because his dad was not in the UK when he was growing up, had to stay in husband's country of birth for complex reasons.

My expectations of him are not that massive. I just want him to play a part in childcare at w/es (week is totally me as he works v long hours in London), give me the odd break, contribute to the household (other than just the bloody money he is so obsessed with) in ways such as DIY, grass cutting, cleaning up cat shit, odd bit of dishwasher packing etc, emptying bins. I.e. basally a share of the work at the weekends. He works 6-7 weekdays (ish) and then at weekends tends to sleep in until lunchtime (unless I encourage him not to which I just don't bother with any more) and then play with ds for a bit, before heading out to fly his aeroplane (he has been into flying for yrs, is how we met).

Opinionated - not sure what makes him call me that. I think it gets to a point in the argument where perhaps he feels he is 'losing' (I am very good at getting my point across / 'arguing' if you like). In the past he has also done it about my family - my dad has been called a 'miserable c*nt' in front of ds (but not in front of my dad himself) when ds was 6 months old. I blew up like a bomb at that. My dad hash;t been particularly fond of my husband since we met it has to be said, but nothing I feel that warrants that type of language / name calling.

Drudgery - I don't think he'll come begging back. It's not his style. Sure he'll be sad, but he starts a new job tomorrow so has plenty to keep him busy and mind off the important things in life. And his ego boosted by the next London blue-chip!

Feelinglost - I think you've hit the nail on the head. He simply cannot admit he is wrong. It's so odd, I know he knows it's wrong. I know him well enough to know that if we saw a friend behaving in the way he does, he would criticise them for it to me afterwards, but he is almost so arrogant (??) that he won't ever admit it about his own behaviour to me, when I know he knows it's not on. I've started to simply say to him 'as our de's mother, I have a responsibility to get him out of the situation we were creating at home, and that is by one of us moving out. You know that this is the right thing.' And leaving it at that. As one other poster said, I know know know that in 15 years, he will look back at what has happened and realise what a complete fool he has been and probably even apologise. I just don't think he will do it in time to save things for either of us or for our wonderful ds. This is the saddest part for me. I know him so well that I am pretty certain this will happen, just not in time.

AF - wow! A response from the (in)famous AF in my thread - that made me giggle! ;) But seriously, I agree. Whoever is at blame and whatever label you want to put on this, it is not something I am willing to expose my baby to, and therefore it must end. And because he couldn't (or being generous, we couldn't) change, one of us had to move out.

We have had 2 counselling sessions, which were pretty good actually. The woman we're seeing is away in August but we have an appnt in early September. I don't think he'll go, but I hope he does.

I wonder if the people using this bad language realise the true hurt for the person on the recieving end.My DH never used bad language at home but recently has started to tell me to "shut the fuck up" as he did last night in a discussion about going out today.Last yr i made excuses for his rudeness as he worked alot of overtime,and him crushing a DVD into my hand was a one off.
This yr i have been giving him the "benefit of the doubt" from all his meds for his heart attack.The thing is OP you will lose respect for him as i have done.My DH does talk to people he works with in a bad way and they do him but as someone who is dead set against bad language i really hate it.
Luckily my teens dont use bad language but i do worry what the effects are on them with a Dad who thinks he can slam.shout or swear at their Mum.
I too am described as bubbly,assertive/oppinionated organised person...do men hate this in a woman?

Read all of Lundy before you worry about individual parts. He actually covers the "hang on, this sounds like me! Maybe I'm the abuser!" part too.

I doubt using the toilet in front of each other has caused a lack of respect. That's just something some people feel comfortable with and some don't. Making someone uncomfortable would be a lack of respect. For example I don't care if DH does a wee while I'm brushing my teeth but if I was in the bath and he came and did it then, that would be horrible. (toilet right next to the bath!)

So, again, your examples of controlling behaviour aren't controlling. The energy drink thing maybe a bit petty, but that's it. Your expectations - perfectly reasonable, in fact, most dads don't get an entire half day at the weekend to do their hobby AND a lie in. And when is your lie in??

If you really were an abusive, controlling personality you would have chosen a different partner - not an alpha, blue chip, plane flying type!

OK, I am ordering Lundy. Can't quite believe I am buying a self help book! Not me at all! ;)

Lizzzy - problem is you could say this about my husband - I am also a well educated, high-earning, plane-flyign type. This is the problem I find with the labels of 'controlling, abusive, aggressive' could all be fixed on either one of us potentially. But anyway, sounds like this book will address this maybe.

Whatsfortea - so sorry to hear your situation. :-( That sounds horrid. If only they realised, I agree.

Lundy isn't "self help" as such. You will find your husband between those pages though. Prepare yourself for a rather uncomfortable lightbulb moment.

The examples you gave of your controlling behaviour really aren't controlling. They are just disagreements. Controlling behaviour is more serious: for example, if you bombarded him with texts when he was out of the house, or always demanded to know where he'd been and who he'd met. Or if you blew up every time your weekend did not go exactly as expected, and according to your preferred schedule. That would be controlling. That's not to say your husband does this either, it's just to give an idea.

Similarly, abusive behaviour is not 'just' about name calling, or aggression. Abuse involves an attempt to bully, undermine or denigrate someone, or consistently blame them when something goes wrong. It tends to go in cycles, and alternates with lovely behaviour.

Failure to admit error or culpability is very typical in abusive people too. They think they are never wrong!

This doesn't sound like your outlook, from your posts on this board. As Bertie says, it's not unusual to think you are the abuser yourself, or to admit half the blame....and that's exactly what an abuser would NOT do.

Yes, unfortunately there is no "type" that abusers go for, or who they are. They can be successful, high flying, very slick types or they can be violent low life drug dealers. They can be soft spoken gentle "family man" types with a hidden nasty streak. Sometimes they are clever and sometimes they are not very bright at all. They can suffer from depression, they can have low self esteem, or very high self image. And anything in between. There is no easy way to "spot" an abuser, and the same can be said for their victims - you can be quiet and timid or loud and feisty or confident and self assured, successful or a failure, alternative or conventional. Gay or straight, male or female. Abuse doesn't happen to one type of person, nor does a particular kind of person become an abuser.

I think there are patterns - the kind of ruthless selfishness required to abuse consciously without guilt is probably quite helpful in terms of business, and in order to attract and keep a partner in the early stages most abusers know very well how to fit into social norms and many appear "charming" whether they are businessmen, artists, or unemployed drug addicts.

But nevertheless, it is wrong to say "an abuser would never be attracted to a successful person", and it's also not the case that a bubbly, assertive or opinionated woman is so enraging to a man that it causes them to abuse.

Abusers never believe themselves to be abusers.

When you read about them and begin to doubt yourself, and to wonder if you've been abusive - that's a big sign that you're not. Abusers don't recognize their behavior, or they believe it is right.

Most (non-abusive) people will do things they're not proud of when pushed. Abusers do it anytime and feel justified.

I have been in this type of relationship. I really feel for you and Im sure that he will be sorry loosing an amazing understanding Wife like you but pleeeease get out and stay out because physical violence is the next step on this slippery slope. If you accept this treatment what is that telling your child?? Sending love and strength. You've get this ❤️❤️❤️❤️xxxx

He's is not abusive because he is angry, he is angry because he is abusive.

He is not 'losing control' when he says these things. He is exercising control over you.

Even if that was not the case, you cannot have a partner who calls you a fucking bitch infront if your poor child. You've done the right thing. You should be proud of yourself for protecting yourself and your child from witnessing abuse.

Abusers do not love us.
I'm sorry.
But you've had a very lucky escape. And it will get better now. In time. Never take him back.

Lundy Bancroft is a very hard read. He worked with the most violent of offenders. Personally I'd not read his book under your circumstances. I get that people are trying to help you understand the mindset of the abuser but imo his book can make people go 'oh well at least my partner wasn't THAT bad'.

It's not a self help book really. More a deep dive into the minds of evil people and how they operate.

But I would absolutely access his online resources about 'the 9 types of abuser by lundy bankroft'. That's an interesting read. Not as hard going.

If you're going to read the book just take from it that these sort all have similar mindsets.

This thread is 10 years old!!