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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I have no rights...apparently!

118 replies

ptsdhelp · 03/08/2014 10:52

Could you offer your opinions on this please?

I found out (last minute) that my exh had booked our child (10) into a sporting event, on his contact day. Its something she has done before, and is always supervised by a member of staff.

Firstly, when I asked why he hadn't let me know that he had booked her in, he said its none of my business. "whats your problem, its only a couple of hours and you cant dictate what I do on my contact days".

Secondly, when I asked him what the arrangements were, he had no idea. He intended leaving our child at the venue with no idea who would be responsible for her.

So I called the venue and asked for details only to discover that the event was for around 5-6 hours and that no adult supervision was available that day as it was a special events day. I withdrew her from the event and explained why.

My exh hadnt even checked with them! he was going to leave our child there for 5-6 hours without any adult being responsible for her.... but apparently its nothing to do with me....

OP posts:
ptsdhelp · 03/08/2014 13:50

Wink thanks acid... i really want to get to the point where I can shrug it off.... Interestingly, he backed right away when my sister unexpectedly arrived for a week (because I was on my knees) and she dealt with him at the door (you dont mess with my sister!)
thank you

OP posts:
ptsdhelp · 03/08/2014 13:54

thanks for your time ladies - i'll leave you to enjoy your day - I'll go and have a think about your advice! thank you

OP posts:
isthisanacidtest · 03/08/2014 13:56

I'll give you an example.

I would ring him and arrange that he was picking DD up at 6. He would turn up at 8 and claim we agreed 8 not 6.

I would be BOUNCING with rage by 6.15, ringing him, he wouldn't answer his phone, I'd text, leave messages and by the time he arrived I'd be in pieces. My plans for the evening would have been wrecked.

Of course, he didn't MEAN any of it and he didn't do it on PURPOSE.

Texting sorted that right out. There's a record of the time. If he's late, he gets 20 mins, then he gets a text to see if he's near hand, if no reply we go out and we stay out for at least an hour. Unless I'm not bothered, in which case I go about my business and if he turns up he turns up.

But it's hard to do in the beginning.

SoonToBeSix · 03/08/2014 14:00

The event may last five to six hours but her dad was ou planning on leaving for two hours . She is ten , you are being very over protective even ncpcc guidelines say 8 years and over is fine at similar public places. And it's not your decision to make.

CarryOnDancing · 03/08/2014 14:10

What you did that was completely out of order was undermine your DD's father to her.

Forget the ins and outs of the "danger" she might have been in. It wasn't imminent danger so you absolutely did not need to withdraw your DD when you did. That could have been done on the morning of the event-and not by you.

Surely the normal response would be to say "xh, I've had an email from the club saying that it's not a normal game day, DD thinks you are just dropping her off so I just wanted to check you've seen the email".
Then he can decide if he wants to stay with DD or withdraw her. Or DD can then request to him to be withdrawn.

That's the maximum amount of input you needed to have. Instead you displayed to your daughter that you think her father can't be trusted with her welfare and that you have final say over him-you did this through action and by even having a conversation with her about it. In your words she was "horrified" at the idea. You did that-you horrified her and told her that her Dad would put her in that position. All of your conversation should have been in private with her father.

Shame on you. Stop using your child to undermine your XH-you are damaging your DD and the relationship with her father. She will resent you when she's older if you continue. This isn't the time to get back at him for things in your relationship.

SoonToBeSix · 03/08/2014 14:19

The event may last five to six hours but her dad was ou planning on leaving for two hours . She is ten , you are being very over protective even ncpcc guidelines say 8 years and over is fine at similar public places. And it's not your decision to make.

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected · 03/08/2014 14:29

"he doesnt find it easy to admit any fuck ups - and we all make them. he actually thanked me for sorting it out in the end, and things have been fine since... and he does know, and share my concerns - i dont think he sees it as interference at all, and ive never given him reason to in the past either. I just want to feel confident that I can say if I have concerns"


THIS

OP, I think you are right. Where safety is concerned, you always have to go by your instincts, you know your child's nature/maturity.

Who gives a shit if you undermine your DH. If it is warranted it is warranted. No use in crying over spilt milk if something untoward happens because it was 'his' day.

Equally, if a mother gets it wrong, why shouldn't the father point out the problem.

It should never be a question of power struggles, but THE CHILD'S welfare at all times, as indeed it was in this case.

EarthWindFire · 03/08/2014 14:34

On this occasion OP you did overstep the mark.

I hope you will be so accommodating if your ex feels that your DC shouldn't do something on your time and cancels it.

It is his time and his choice to make, as hard as it may be.

ptsdhelp · 03/08/2014 14:52

Thank you keepcalm - you have put it far better than my many attempts to put it!

I am really not interested in any power struggles/game playing etc - And I agree - if I am getting it wrong I would rather he was able to tell me! and I have said that to him - if he feels something shouldnt happen I have asked hi to say so - they are his kids too and he has every right. it goes both ways . And, actually, even though 'i dont have to'... i do tend to tell him what we are doing on 'my days' because i think its helpful for him to know! and also helps him feel he has knowledge about their lives with me.

Carryon:
What you did that was completely out of order was undermine your DD's father to her.

No. not the case at all. My discussion with him did not and never does happen in front of the kids. I am not an idiot and am well aware of how inappropriate that would be. You have made a lovely set of assumptions about me, my ex, our relationship and what you perceive to have happened.

Forget the ins and outs of the "danger" she might have been in. It wasn't imminent danger so you absolutely did not need to withdraw your DD when you did. That could have been done on the morning of the event-and not by you.

I didnt say there was danger, I had concerns that the arrangements (or lack of) were not appropriate, and as i said HE AGREED. Its irrelevant whether I withdrew her or not, or at what time. He said he was unavailbale to be contacted, therefore there wasnt the opportunity for him to do anything.

Surely the normal response would be to say "xh, I've had an email from the club saying that it's not a normal game day, DD thinks you are just dropping her off so I just wanted to check you've seen the email".
Then he can decide if he wants to stay with DD or withdraw her. Or DD can then request to him to be withdrawn.

Surely the 'normal' response when mum asks dad what the arrangements are for their dd is NOT 'its none of your business'. Surely the normal response would be to explain what the arrangements are so that everyone feels happy. Additionally, seeing as he had no clue what the arrangements were, I have every right to call the club and find out. I am equally responsible for her welfare. There wasnt the option of him staying with her at short notice as we have another child he was looking after that day.

That's the maximum amount of input you needed to have. Instead you displayed to your daughter that you think her father can't be trusted with her welfare and that you have final say over him-you did this through action and by even having a conversation with her about it. In your words she was "horrified" at the idea. You did that-you horrified her and told her that her Dad would put her in that position. All of your conversation should have been in private with her father.

How on earth have you come to the conclusion that I had that type of conversation with her? What actually happened was I called the club (on speakerphone) with my daughter and asked for the details. On hearing what the details were, my dd, said 'theres no way I'm doing that on my own'. So I asked her what she wanted to do, and she said 'I dont want to do it'. So I told the club to withdraw her'. What I actually said to her was, that dad thought the arrangements were something else and obviously didnt realise they were different for that day. I told her I would tell him she wanted to withdraw and he would be fine with that. At no point did i tell my dd that I didnt trust her dad. A huge conclusion to jump to!! I also did not tell her I have the final say - SHE had the final say - SHE decided she did not want to participate. Do you suggest that I force her so as not to piss exh off?? Also, I would have been delighted to have her dad sort this out for himself, as, technically he had responsibility for sorting it. He REFUSED to, and declared himself unavailable. His choice. But it needing sorting so I did it.

Shame on you. Stop using your child to undermine your XH-you are damaging your DD and the relationship with her father. She will resent you when she's older if you continue. This isn't the time to get back at him for things in your relationship.

I have no shame in making sure that when my dd participates at an event that she feels SAFE and SUPPORTED. Under those circumstances SHE did not. I supported her by respecting her decision not to participate and by not forcing her into a situation she didnt want to be in just to avoid a difficult conversation with her dad.... and as I said - he agreed it was not suitable and was happy for me to sort it. I have no need to 'get back' at her dad... I'm afraid I do not fit into the cliched scenario of a woman needing to get back at a man thru her kids. I have far more respect for myself and my kids that you obviously give me credit for.

OP posts:
ptsdhelp · 03/08/2014 14:56

Can I just say - the only reason I cancelled it was because ex had made it clear he was totally unavailable to discuss/sort this until he was due to collect the kids the following day - he refused to discuss/sort it.... otherwise I would happily have batted it back to him to cancel - which he would have done because he agreed!

If it were to happen the other way around - yes - I would be happy for him to discuss it with me! there wouldnt be a need for him to cancel on my behalf because i never make myself totally unavailable to discuss matters concerning the kids. But, if he felt so strongly that something wasnt appropriate, yes, I have to respect that too! Thats what joint parenting is!

OP posts:
bonbonpixie · 03/08/2014 15:38

OP I don't think you were in the wrong at all. She is your daughter, you both (EX husband and yourself) have a say in the safety and appropriateness of any of the activities she undertakes. If something makes you uncomfortable as a parent OF COURSE you have a right to voice this. Just as EX should have with you. I have absolutely no idea or experience of the intricacies of contact orders/divorce etc but you are co parents to your DD irrespective of your martial status. I am completely and utterly aghast and upset at the thought of any 10 year old at an all day event without parental or known (to the child) adult supervision. A child at 10 is still just that A CHILD! I think quite a few of the posts here are just providing excuses for lax, lazy parenting. Totally shocking.

Well done OP for actually taking responsibility for your DD. It seems that so many out there aren't as lucky.

But of course this is just my opinion...

CarryOnDancing · 03/08/2014 16:05

Why didn't you just end you original post with "no need to reply, I've got this all sewn up and an answer for everything"?
Would have saved everyone a lot of time (admittedly we would have missed out on the amusement of your defensive straw clutching though).

If this is the manner that you approach your ex with then it really is no wonder that he didn't see fit to discuss anything with you.

I second the fact that you sound like a royal PITA!

perfumedlife · 03/08/2014 16:12

I'll third it.

You asked for opinions but really meant 'only ones that agree with my handling of it'.

Everybodyleaves · 03/08/2014 16:22

Have you tried, repeatedly, to have conversations with an ex, only about the kids, who will not communicate, answer any texts, emails, fails to turn up, misses events, has been emotionally abusive for years and continues to be so towards me......to then calmly summon up the strength to have a 'potentially difficult conversation with him about my concerns (valid enough to me and my kids) to be shouted at and told its none of my business.... when in fact it is my business .....

Yes, I have ptsd and I don't really understand some of the harsh comments towards you on this thread either. Both you, your DD (and indeed your ex) all appreciated that the original plans weren't suitable, and as ex had declared himself unavailable to discuss/sort, you did it yourself. I would have done the same (but probably not as calmly).

Continue doing as you are, you seem to have it sussed. Do you give lessons/advice for others please Wink Smile

CurtWild · 03/08/2014 16:58

Wow. There are a lot of resident parents here who seem happy to relinquish parental responsibility, without question, as soon as their DC step out of the door with their ex. I'm actually gobsmacked. Well done OP for having the foresight to look out for your DD's interests in this situation rather than worry about whether your xh would be put out. Contact is for the benefit of the DC, after all, not the nrp.

perfumedlife · 03/08/2014 17:28

Oh for goodness sake, the answer to your behaviour is right there in your opening post. Your first gripe is that you only found out 'last minute' which is not quite true, it was at least the day before the event. Secondly, you asked him why he hadn't told you, way, way before you knew anything about the type of event/running time etc. You got his back up. You sound like an expert at it. And I speak as a very protective mother.

ptsdhelp · 03/08/2014 19:55

I asked why he hasn't told me because we always have discussed arrangements like these precisely because it would need us both to be involved because otherwise one child is left alone and we both agree that we don't want this. I have no problem with the last minute nature of it if arrangements are suitable. Just because its his day doesn't mean I can't have an opinion and vice versa.

OP posts:
HanselandGretel · 03/08/2014 20:52

Reading between the lines and from what the OP has actually said I believe she has been through a hell of a lot and with the greatest will in the world trying to parent amicably with an EA ex who blames you for the split in the first place does not make for an easy time, hence the anxiety with arrangements. Blame and recriminations eat away at you and unfortunately seep into any contact, I wouldn't be surprised if he was being deliberately casual re the arrangements to wind the OP up...'but' I believe he would have sorted it out in his own time and do feel the OP cancelling the arrangements was a bit pre-emptive...but I do understand her reasoning.

Would he have dropped DD off in the carpark and went merrily on his way oblivious to the changed arrangements? Who knows, but the OP had that fear and I don't think she could have just done nothing.

A sensible thing to do as other posters have said would be to email him any concerns or new info you have that he may not have, then let him sort it out, let him take the responsibility.

A mobile at age 10 would also go some way towards keeping lines open with DD should any other occasions like this arise, the DD can ring and talk to dad re any arrangements if that suits.

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