I have no rights...apparently!

[ptsdhelp]

Could you offer your opinions on this please?

I found out (last minute) that my exh had booked our child (10) into a sporting event, on his contact day. Its something she has done before, and is always supervised by a member of staff.

Firstly, when I asked why he hadn't let me know that he had booked her in, he said its none of my business. "whats your problem, its only a couple of hours and you cant dictate what I do on my contact days".

Secondly, when I asked him what the arrangements were, he had no idea. He intended leaving our child at the venue with no idea who would be responsible for her.

So I called the venue and asked for details only to discover that the event was for around 5-6 hours and that no adult supervision was available that day as it was a special events day. I withdrew her from the event and explained why.

My exh hadnt even checked with them! he was going to leave our child there for 5-6 hours without any adult being responsible for her.... but apparently its nothing to do with me....

PTSD - yes, I have had those conversations.

And I've told you what I do.

But you don't want to hear.

OP I agree wholeheartedly. I don't agree wiith the view that you have no say when ex has your daughter & it comes down to safety. Perhaps he is being an arse because he knows he's fucked up?

As someone who split from my dds dad when she was 6 months old (she is now 11) I think you have to take a step back and not get involved on contact days. Otherwise you will drive yourself crazy.

She is 10. Perfectly capable of getting there and realising it wasn't what she thought it was / realising she doesn't want to be there and asking an adult to contact her dad to take her home. If you don't think she could or would do this then talk to her about this sort of thing now. Give her the onus to make some decisions about contact.

My dd goes to see her dad in the USA for half the summer holidays every year. I hear from her every 4 days or so. If I spent every hour worrying about what was going on I'd go absolutely mad. For what is worth he takes her on a boat, kayaking and she isn't a great swimmer but she loves it and I have to trust that between him and the instructors that they make the right decisions regarding her safety.

As hard as it is unless he is a complete idiot I think you have to let him be the parent and make his own mistakes and decisions. He may have turned up on the day to realise it wasn't what he thought and then changed his mind but by doing what you did you discredited his role.

To be perfectly honest, OP, your continual use of 'my child' seems pertinent too.

Your DD is also his DD. He is 1 of her 2 parents... you are going to have to let him parent in his way and maybe refer to your DD as 'our child' as often as you can, just so you don't accidentally phrase something quite so one sided in front of her.

It would work as CBT too... you'd get used to thinking of her as his child as much as you see her as yours.

acid - its not that i dont want to hear - i dont think ive been expressing myself well - and thats not helping... theres so much background to this - its difficult to explain.

I called the club out of courtesy because ex said he was unavailable for the rest of the day (i dont know why - its just what he told me) and i didnt want the club messed around, because we both have dealings with them and i didnt want it reflecting badly.

Witch - Im not a mum who thinks I have the final say at all. I have always made this clear to him and feel very strongly that we need to make decision together. what alarmed me was his refusal to check detais or discuss with me, point blank refused. And in the context if telling me repeatedly that actually the responsibility for the day to day welfare for the children is mine (entirely) as the resident parent, i feel as though I should check... even though I dont agree with what he said and have made it clear i think we have joint responsibiity and a need to communicate about these decisions.

I feel I'm up against a wall... he tells me its all down to me most of the time, and then when I check and have concerns I've not right to be concerned. I cant win, but I also cant stand by and shut up if i feel there are reasons to be concerned.

This thing that when parents are divorced or separated they have no right to have an opinion ( or even in extreme cases a "power of veto" ) is so weird!!!!

I don't disagree that DS's shouldn't be micromanaging contact, but your child is still your child when they are not physically with you and as a parent surely there is an expectation that we do what's best for our kids.

At ten I would have been scared stiff being left for 5/6 hours without a known and trusted adult to go to in case of emergency or just for reassurance. Also I think it's not a good idea for a young child ( and ten is still quite young IMO) to be left roaming around amongst a lot of unknown and unvented audits, as unfortunately like it or not there are done unsavoury characters around who look for these types of opportunities.

OP you did the right thing!!!

Look. I've told you what I do. Leave it to him - if the club are messed around, bat it back to him - not your problem, you're not married to him/with him anymore - it is between him and them to sort out.

It's not for you to sort out his fuck ups. Leave him to fuck it up and sort it out.

Stop making decisions together with him - you make them on your time and let him make them on his. Some of yours will be different to his and some of his will be different to yours, but that's ok. As long as there is no actual real danger to the kids (and I can't see that there would be on a golf course on an open day, honestly) then let it be. Let him fuck it up and deal with the consequences.

You feel strongly you have to make decisions together - but you say he was emotionally abusive - can I gently suggest you would benefit from further counselling? You are trying to control what he does and how he does it and you're trying to sort out his fuck ups before they happen - don't. Stop. Let him fuck it up. And sort the fall out. And he'll learn.

On Friday I could have stepped in and said to DD and her dad "Ok well I'm not doing anything I'll take you to training". I didn't. Because it's not my fuck up. He's organised to go do something else because he didn't bother to read the email from the club re training - that's his fuck up and his mess to sort out.

When he tells you that 'it's all down to you', that is your cue to say, "No it isn't, these are OUR children and we both have responsibility for them. Now what do you suggest with do about ". Rinse and repeat. He will get the message and step up - because he has to, you're not going to act as mentor and guru and boss-of-all anymore.

What you're doing is accepting 'uber role' and then resenting the criticisms that you're taking over. Stop taking the role, the rest will fall into place if you let it.

You must trust your ex to love his children and do what's right by them. It's not your job to challenge that, not it any way.

It's hard, I know it is, we didn't get what we signed up to BUT we owe it to our children to make the best of a bad job and actually, we might really find that it works out great. You can do this.

fairy - the thing is, dd doesnt have those skills to resolve the problem - probably because she hasnt had to yet - and i have stared to talk to her about these things ... ie what to do - but shes quite an immature 10 - and I wouldnt wanted her feeling lost in it all. or being b=expected that she should just cope.

Nomama - I dont refer to her as 'mine', I always speak as 'ours' - i guess ive just used the phrase 'my dd' her to emphasise that i dont feel I dont have responsbilities for her when shes not with me. I am responsible where ever she is.

pickled - I think it is partly that - and i get that - he doesnt find it easy to admit any fuck ups - and we all make them. he actually thanked me for sorting it out in the end, and things have been fine since... and he does know, and share my concerns - i dont think he sees it as interference at all, and ive never given him reason to in the past either. I just want to feel confident that I can say if I have concerns

... and exactly what acid said.

As a parent, none of us is perfect. I bet there have been times when you've done something that could have been done better or differently. How would you have felt to have your ex looking over your shoulder, stepping in to change plans and critiquing your parenting.

I wouldn't like it - or accept it. It's certainly not in the best interests of the children.

acid - i really have tried batting it back to him - i have (very calmly) talked thru concerns in the past but he has been awful recently and I very much feel I am doing this alone now. He has gradually tried to make most things my responsibility to sort out, yet it seriously horrible to me when i do,,, to the point of making me quite ill recently. There are other issues around us at the moment concerning our other dd, which he is avoiding/ignoring/undermining. I have asked my gp for a referral to cambs for her... and so need us to have a decent communicative relationship before this kicks off, for her benefit.... but mainly it seems I cant do right whatever i do.

U over reacted at the time and u r over reacting now on MN u r obviously v anxious and are looking for the worst possible scenario to come out of a harmless day out. I agree counselling may help u. U seem to expect the worst.

lying witch - youre right, i wouldnt appreciate it , and he makes criticism often and for little reason... mainly out of resentment and bitterness because i divorced him - and I always ask that he seperates our relationship issues from how we need to work together for the kids.... thing was , when i spoke to him about this incident, i did just ask about the arrangements, because i want to know shes ok... i want her to go to golf! i didnt say she couldnt, just tried to explain that if he could communicate with me, we could have worked something out so that he could have stayed with her as he normally would,,,, but he left it too late and I had to work, so alternative plans couldnt be made this time.... i just dont know how to explain it any other way... its really not about me wanting to control of intervene.... just about making safe arraangements we are both happy about

no squid, i dont expect the worst. Dd has been to several of these events when the arrangements have been ok. exh and I BOTH feel that she isnt ready for a day alone without an adult... that we agree on - what i dont agree with is that either of us has no right to express concerns/have an opinion just because it isnt our day with the kids... I am in counselling - but not for anxiety. but thanks for your concern

Ptds - don't talk to him. Just bat it back to him. It's not your problem. Like LyingWitch said - rinse and repeat "you need to contact the club."

As far as DD not being able to resolve the problem - she is obviously well able to tell you - what you need to do is again, be cruel to be kind a bit - make her tell her dad.

Because - if it comes out of your mouth, he won't believe that it's coming from her. He will (if my ex is anything to go by) only believe it when it comes from her.

You are allowing him to have too much influence on you - you have to parent with him, that's all. Decent communicative relationship re the kids? "DD has an appointment through for 16th Sept at 4.30 re her big toe. I can take her, do you want to be there"

That's it. That's all you need to do. And if you don't want to do that, scan in and send him an email with the letter.

And - being very honest - when I would try as I thought to "talk things through" calmly with my EA ex - I wouldn't be calm. I couldn't keep calm and unemotional. And it would end up with me in bits and floods of tears either at the time or afterwards.

All I do now is text or email as much as possible and inform him of what's going on - and leave him to the rest of it.

And if he fucks up and misses parents evening (yes, he has done that) or turns up late to a school play (yes, he's done that too) or forgets something - that's his problem, not mine.

Disengage, disengage, disengage as much as possible.

You can't expect him to always make arrangements you are happy with nor should he.

he and you both have a right to parent separately and you don't have to defer to him nor him you. If he has the kids, it's his problem. Not yours.

I honestly think you'd benefit (if you can organise it) from some more counselling to help you unravel you and him and how you parent going forward.

My way of phrasing it is that me and ex are joint parents, but we don't parent jointly. Equal but separate. And for DD that means some things dad allows and mum doesn't and some things mum allows and dad doesn't.

pts... I get it, I really do but this is not working, is it? You're going to have to learn some stock phrases and use them:

"I hear you. Now how do you suggest we tackle this ?"

and

"Hello ex. I can't step in and help because I'm doing something else today. See you later when you drop them off. Have a lovely day".

and

"DD, ask your dad, you're with him today. He'll decide and you'll have a lovely day/outing/whatever".

and

"Ex... I don't have all the answers. You're their parent too. Maybe I'd like to ask you what to do sometimes, you can figure it out, whatever you decide is fine by me.".

Go out when your ex has your children. Switch your phone OFF. It's your time off and they're safe and with their dad. Try to get into the habit of that and it will become routine before you know it.

thanks acid - I have been doing what you say recently - disengaging with him and using email and text. And thats okay - other than sometimes its not appropriate - ie talking thru some things that are better done face to face. I told him last week - that unless he steps up I will not keep making the excuses to the kids (yes - he's missed all sorts of things like yours has, and thinks it doesnt matter to the kids). I have tried not to let the kids notice his absence, by making excuses etc.. only because I dont want them hurt or feeling let down.. and lots of people keep telling me to stop doing that.... and I have started to say to the kids ' you should ask dad, or tell dad...' so maybe that will make a difference.

I do find it hard to be cut and dried i guess - because for me, i just want amicable! for the kids, and so we can both get on with life. But I think I am coming to realise he cant do this yet.

Honestly tho... i have been floored by some of his comments about what is and isnt his responsibiity... what he is 'prepared' to do etc... although I divorced him, i still didnt imagine he could continue being so hurtful... what a niave idiot.

x-posted with acid again. She's right, dead right.

It isn't easy and none of us can expect it to be but it can be easier than it is and it's got to be easier than trying to conduct an uneasy alliance through gritted teeth.

E-mail/text and information directly from your children re: their wants/needs. Do what is easiest for you, the mode matters not.

Trust him to do the right thing; he needs to trust you to do the same thing - for your children.

I don't make excuses. I don't comment on it. But I don't lie for him. Why would you lie for him? You owe him nothing!

Nothing is best talked though face to face with an emotionally abusive and manipulative man - unless in the presence of a trained mediator and even then I'd have my doubts.

thanks lyingwitch - thats really helpful... I dont have any friends in the same position as me so it does help to hear how you handle it

x-posts with LyingWitch

thanks acid - i dont lie for him - but i mumble over excuses for him - or at least i did until recently... but because i dont want the kids feeling hurt. He is emotionally abuse and very manipulative. I sound paranoid but this is about revenge for the divorce. He has actually said at times that I deserve (whatever his response was) because i wanted a divorce and now i need to expereince what its like to have to do it all on my own (like i didnt before)... His stock phrases have been 'well you wanted this, what did you expect'. 'hard isnt it, being on your own'... 'its not my responsility, you chose this'.....

Who is, of course, dead right.

Learn stock phrase and repeat them back to him. Over and over.

I find a refrain of "fuckofffuckofffuckoff" silently in my head at the same time helps immensely

Like on Friday, he sat there in his mid-life crisis of a car looking expectantly at me as DD said "by the way Dad I have training tomorrow" and he said "it would have been nice to have been told I'm playing golf" (true!!) and he looked at me and he raised his eyebrows and inwardly I was laughing my socks off thinking ner ner ner ner ner fuck off you knob no golf for you

As I outwardly feigned concern and said "did you not the email from the club back in June that set out the holiday training? You better ring John and make sure they have the right email address for you. Would you like me to forward you my copy?"

Wasn't I being so helpful?

The other reason I like text and/or email is that there is a record. A conversation can be twisted. He can claim you didn't express yourself clearly, you didn't say whatever. If it's in a text or an email then it's there, it's clear and he can't claim he wasn't told/misunderstood/you didn't express yourself clearly.