I have no rights...apparently!

[ptsdhelp]

Could you offer your opinions on this please?

I found out (last minute) that my exh had booked our child (10) into a sporting event, on his contact day. Its something she has done before, and is always supervised by a member of staff.

Firstly, when I asked why he hadn't let me know that he had booked her in, he said its none of my business. "whats your problem, its only a couple of hours and you cant dictate what I do on my contact days".

Secondly, when I asked him what the arrangements were, he had no idea. He intended leaving our child at the venue with no idea who would be responsible for her.

So I called the venue and asked for details only to discover that the event was for around 5-6 hours and that no adult supervision was available that day as it was a special events day. I withdrew her from the event and explained why.

My exh hadnt even checked with them! he was going to leave our child there for 5-6 hours without any adult being responsible for her.... but apparently its nothing to do with me....

You ask if you have 'no rights -apparently' implying that you can't believe you don't have the right to interfere but I am afraid you don't. Its your child's fathers time with the child. He is an EQUAL parent. your Opinion on what is safe and appropriate does not out weigh his opinion. If my ex had done.this to me I would have gone bat shit. If you have questions about his parenting then return to court !. I think you are hiding behind your child to justit your outrageous controlling behaviour. If she distributed want to do something then she can tell her father as much as she can tell her mother, she didn't need you to step in and 'decide what's best' ,, I am gobsmacked a parent would do this

She told you she needs an adult with her all day and that she would not feel safe... Or did you plant that seed or put those words in her mouth and thoughts in her head

Your ex said 2 hours... You say 5/6

This is one of those threads where I'd love to hear the other sides story

Ok - this is going in circles.... We all parent in different ways, and do things at different ages,,, agreed. But, in this context, for a number of reasons (which are kinda only relevant to me, children and exh) myself and my daughter didnt think the arrangements he had made were suitable. And actually - when I told him I had withdrawn her and the reasons why he had agreed!! He doesnt feel vetoed!

My question really is - if I feel there are safety concerns at any time, for any reasons, just because its his day, do I not still have the right to say I have those concerns? they are still my children on those days, and I am still responsible...

I withdrew her, at her request. I also withdrew her rather than her dad doing it, because he was not available to do it.... I knew he was elsewhere, and given that it was less than 24 hours before the event i thought it polite to the club to sort it! It wasnt a stampy foot incident about taking control, veto or anything of the sort. I was already on the phone to them, with daughter listening and she asked to withdraw.... what was I suppossed to say - oh let me just ask my exh to cancel....

In my opinion you should not have withdrawn your daughter. I don't think it was your call to make and I think you shouldn't have got involved other than to tell your daughter to talk to her dad about it. And I would have enabled her to skyped/phoned him if necessary.

Basically OP, you've launched in and taken action over something that you feel was a health and safety issue. Others might disagree with you; I certainly do on your method, it's rude.

If you really felt this strongly you should have said to your ex (after he told you it was nothing to do with you), "Look, our daughter doesn't want to do the course alone. Will you be there with her or can you find something else to do with her, she's really unhappy?". It would have put the action back in his court and he could have sorted this with his daughter. She's 10, not 5 and she should have been encouraged to speak to her father, not cossetted by you because it wasn't necessary.

You didn't have a right to interfere the way you did and I would be very angry that's you'd done this. You certainly had no right to withdraw the place.

You say that you have an amicable relationship with your ex but I don't see it. It certainly won't be now. You may just have started a pointless battle and escalated something that didn't need to be.

yes dd - can and did articulate this to her dad - the reason i withdrew her was because she asked me to and he wasnt available to call them! simple as that - i have never felt the need to over rule him! - you are imposing a picture of our relationship that is completely incorrect! and one of me, that is just a shit stirring old bat trying to undermine her ex!! well thanks - my concern only ever is for my kids and when I feel there is a safety issue, regardless of who's day it is, I will not sit back at let it happen because its someone elses day to have them! - because it is my kids who feel the consequences of that day - not my ex!!

And yes - it is about communication - that was all i was after - decent and respectful communication - because if he had said he had booked her in - I would have said - well lets sort out how one of us can stay with her while one of us has our other child, because its the open day - but because he didnt , that couldnt be arranged!

witch - as i have said - i did try and talk to him, i did ask what the arrangements were, i did try to sort it so she wasnt there alone - he would not discuss it!!!

so, even though i still had concerns after I tried to discuss it, i should just let it happen anyway?

ex wasnt around for my dd to talk to - there isnt a problem with her taking to him - but if hes not around???

Yawn. You said it was something she had done before. How was he supposed to know it was the open day! He obviously assumed that all was going to be fine, y'know like the previous time. Just because it wasn't seems to have pleased you. Tbh you sound like a headache

He didn't discuss it because he thinks your a PITA

My question really is - if I feel there are safety concerns at any time, for any reasons, just because its his day, do I not still have the right to say I have those concerns?

I think you have the right to say that you have those concerns but given that you have safety concerns over a 10 yo playing a round of golf then it's likely that your ideas about safety won't line up exactly with his ideas of safety and I don't think you have a right to the final say unless it was something that social services would be interested in.

I still don't understand why you even phoned the venue. If he says 'X is playing golf on Saturday' then why did you feel the need to phone up? Does he have form for doing unsafe things?

It wasn't urgent for him to cancel on your timescale, you decided it and you decided to do it.

If the situation were reversed, would you have been happy for your ex to arbitrarily decide to unpick your arrangements? Really? I don't believe that. He's an adult and he has the responsibility on his days, not you. I know that's hard but it's a fact.

You say that you've done your best to facilitate the contact. It's your children that will lose out.

If you're so righteous in your actions then why are you seeking validation for them? You're just not interested in any other views.

he knew it was the open day in the same way that i did... because we had both received several emails about it.

Quitelikely - thats just offensive, to say that I have taken enjoyment from this going tits up - . The reality is far from that. My ex and I have had a decent relationship until recently, and always seen eye to eye on issues of wlefare etc - in fact i think we still do. We usually work together to ensure the kids get to activities etc...

But I was shocked and hurt by his outburst and came here for advice on how to deal with it if it happens again - because I do feel that we each have a right to comment on the others' plans etc if we have concerns... we are both intelligent mature adults who dont really play one upmanship games.... and the bottom line is we are supposed to be parenting our children 'together' albeit from different homes... so thanks... telling me I must be a shitface is really constructive. Why isnt it that mums cant just be concerned without someone saying its just a way to wind up the exh.... ive never had any interest in winding him up

Who called you a shitface?

You seem really angry and anxious and if that's spilling over into your interactions with your ex your kids will pick up on it.

Have you had counselling? I found it helpful when I split from my ex.

to re state things - I called the venue because I knew the arrangements would be different that day - and because exh didnt know what they were - so i wanted to find out . i thinks thats reasonable. When I told exh what they were he did actually agree that they werent suitable for our dd. Which actually I knew he would agree.

I was asking for advice on how people ee their responsibiities i guess... not to actually pick over this one incident - which has been worked out amicably btw!

I don't even tell ex what DD is doing when she's with me. Not out of malice, but just because it's really not his business.

He picked her up on Friday and she announced to him as she got in the car "By the way dad I have practice tomorrow". He said "It would have been nice to have been told"

I just said "did you not get the email from the club with the summer training days?" And of course he did, he forgot to write it down - because he's crap at that sort of thing and he never does. Never did. Never will.

But it's Not My Fucking Problem to sort out - how he gets her there, if he gets her there, Not My Problem. Up to him and her to sort out.

Causes me a lot less stress that way.

Sorry also agree that you overstepped the mark.

Yes of course if you get on well There's nothing wrong with saying hi xh dd mentioned an event you are taking her to on your weekend and I'm a bit worried do you mind running through the details with me / if I check with the club?

Also agree she wouldn't have been there for 5-6 hrs as he believed that he was picking her up in 2-3, she was very unlikely to be going around on her own, more likely with a group of other kids and that although an adult wouldn't be supervising them it sounds like adults she knows and trusts would be close by in the clubhouse if she needed them.

Agree a cheap basic phone would be a good idea so if she'd got there and wasn't happy she could ring Dad to come and get her.

Also wondering if your seemingly obvious panic at the thought of her being without adult supervision has affected her and if she'd still be up for it if you'd been more positive. After all she will be at high school next year and a degree of independence before then might help her feel confident with the change.

What you should have done, in my opinion, instead of phoning the venue because you knew that the arrangements would be different that day, was batted it straight back to him and said to HIM that the arrangements would be different that day and he might need to check.

And then step back and leave him to it.

Well if you trust him then just know it was a small error on his part, he doesn't need the low down for it. I'm thinking he felt attacked by you in some way if he refused to discuss it! He doesn't want you second checking his plans for the dc.

acid - pain in the arse was your phrase.

Have you tried, repeatedly, to have conversations with an ex, only about the kids, who will not communicate, answer any texts, emails, fails to turn up, misses events, has been emotionally abusive for years and continues to be so towards me......to then calmly summon up the strength to have a 'potentially difficult conversation with him about my concerns (valid enough to me and my kids) to be shouted at and told its none of my business.... when in fact it is my business .....

yes, I have been receiving counselling, its really helpful. but seeking advice and support here feels a bit detrimental today so I'll leave things here. Thanks for your comments.

I don't get it. Would a golf club honestly let a 10 year old wander round the course unsupervised for 6 hours?

I can't see it. Either there is some supervision, perhaps they intend to buddy them up with older teenagers or young adults, or they shouldn't be booking them in.

The safety issue is surely the golf courses problem. If it's as big as you say. Every golf club I have ever known has been really precious with more rules than golf balls! It sounds like they have misinformed your ex, and led him to believe there's supervision as normal.

What do they normally do for lunch etc?

Someone has the wrong end of the stick somewhere here. You've jumped to a conclusion thinking it's bad parenting on your ex's behalf.

My dd has a phone for emergencies like this, if I ever drop her at an activity and plans have changed/finished early/cancelled.

PTSDhelp - please point me to the post where I said pain in the arse? I've just searched all my posts and I can't see where I said that - and expecially where I said it aimed at you?

Quitelikely said PITA - NOT ME!!

(Sorry quitelikely but I don't want to be blamed for something I didn't say)

Wanting advice on handling in future wasn't said anywhere in your OP, it WAS about this one incident.

Your ex could have contacted the venue by himself and it wasn't a job for you to take on.

I get the very distinct impression that mums think somehow that they are the 'parent in charge' when there is a split. It's a hard lesson to learn that we aren't. Ditto about parenting 'together'; you're not, you're parenting separately but hopefully along the same lines in terms of fundamental principles of care.

If you're honest, you'll admit to yourself that you didn't handle this one properly and if you really are keen to know how to handle this again in future, you'll acknowledge the bits that you wouldn't appreciate yourself and not repeat them.

Hi pts

I completely understand why you felt that removing her was the safest/preferred option.

The only thing I would have done differently is letting ex do it once his DD had expressed her choice and the reasons why. I know you say he was unavailable but he wasn't going to be unavailable all day was he? Also doing it yourself to be thoughtful to the club, well again for me that would have been the exes cross to bear.
If he had still refused then I of course would have taken the action you did.

I suppose the issue now is how to go forward.
Your ex will only see this as 'you going against him' and you may just have to concede on that.
A discussion of when/where and for how long DD can be left is definitely needed as is getting her a phone for use as a personnel safety measure. I hope this does not cause you future problems.

apoligies acid - i misread - my fault x