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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I think it's emotional abuse but not sure if I'm being melodramatic

86 replies

LucyLollie · 23/07/2014 23:32

Just wanted some opinions/ advice on whether my relationship sounds in any way normal... my H tells me that I am naive to think that other couples don't have exactly the same kind of rows as us, but I think I know deep down that I'm married to a very unreasonable and possibly abusive man. I just don't know what to do about it.

I could give hundreds of examples of the 'type' of argument we have, but I'll give the most recent example from the last few days. It started on Sunday morning, when I walked into our bedroom at 9.40am with our two kids (6 months and 4 years old). It was H's turn for a lie-in (I'd slept until 9am the day before). I'd been downstairs and having breakfast with the kids since 7.30 and it was becoming a bit difficult to delay getting dressed etc for much longer. Also, he'd told me the previous month that he didn;t ever want to sleep past 10am anyway. Basically, I thought it was fine to come into the room and allow our eldest to wake him up. I said something like "morning! hope it's ok to wake you - couldn't keep them downstairs for too much longer." After a couple of minutes, it became apparent that he wasn't happy to have been woken at all. I was accused of being 'horrible and moody', and 'begrudging' his lie-in. I was left speechless (this is a bit of a theme) as I quite simply wasn't moody at all. I was absolutely fine!! I tried to say this, and reminded him that he'd said he didn't want to sleep longer than 10am... I was then told again that I was being difficult, moody and horrible (all in front of the kids) and that he would;t dream of doing that to me - I can;t possibly care about him if I can walk in and interrupt his sleep like that.
He was then off with me all morning, until I apologised and "admitted" that I was being moody. This is the ludicrous kind of thing that is now quite common for me - i.e. I admit to feelings and intentions that I never even had, just to stop him sulking.

Later that day, I was clearing away the kitchen and I put one of his magazines (that he hadn't yet read) in the recycling bin. He asked me later where the magazine was, and I remembered where I had put it and immediately retrieved it for him. I didn't apologise for doing it, I just said something casual like 'oh yeah, I must have done that completely on auto pilot - here it is." He accused me of not caring about him, being lost in my own 'bubble', being distant and self-absorbed all day, and said he 'couldn't BELIEVE' that I could do that with 'his possession'. It turned into a proper tirade, with him shouting and saying it was typical of how I have no regard for his things (honestly no idea what he means) and don't show any care for him.

On other occasions we've had huge rows when I've ordered the wrong drink for him in a pub, got myself cutlery at a buffet but didn't bring any for him, and when I've made a fuss about wasps at an outdoor restaurant (I'm scared of them, and he went absolutely mad at me for 'creating a scene'). In all of these scenarios, the row happens because 1) he gets angry with me for being "horrible" or "difficult", 2) I defend myself and tell him he's overreacting, and then 3) he gets angrier and angrier, demanding an apology. Sometimes I get angry in return, and other times (more the case recently) I just give in and apologise, even if it involves lying about how I really feel. On the occasions that I DO get angry, I can sometimes get very angry - I have actually accused him of being abusive, and have threatened to leave. It's because of this that I'm not sure whether it truly IS abuse, because I'm not exactly a beaten-down wallflower who can't stick up for myself.

Tonight I tried to talk to him about the lie-in and magazine incidents. I said that, despite apologising for them, I now feel stupid that I'm in a relationship where he puts words into my mouth, and that I wasn't actually moody at all over the weekend - but he was. He immediately got angry that I was "retracting my apology" and refused to talk to me. He called me f*ing insane, and shouted so loudly that our son came downstairs and asked why Daddy was being nasty to Mummy. Obviously that part completely breaks my heart. He regularly swears at me and calls me names (mental, insane and mad are the favourites at the moment, but he also uses bitch a lot). For my part, I call him abusive and tell him he's out of control and childish. I always end up apologising for calling him abusive though, whereas he's never apologised for the name-calling he does - he says he will call me a bitch if I behave like one.
He's never genuinely hurt me, but he has pushed me out of a room ONCE a few months ago (he said I should have walked out, and admittedly I kept resisting when he was pushing me as if to test whether he would continue... does this make me equally to blame??). I then fell on the floor, and the glass I was holding smashed everywhere. He yelled "I can't believe you just f'ing did that" as if I had done it in a fit of melodrama, instead of having been pushed down by him.
On one other occasion, he was yelling in my face (literally with his head pressed against mine) so I slapped him in an attempt to snap him out of it. It's the only time I've ever slapped someone around the face and I know it sounds terrible. He retaliated immediately by hitting me around the head. It still shocks me to think about it. It wasn't hard, but it completely shocked me. He said he was entitled to "hit back."

Other relevant things - he's not a financial abuser. He earns a lot of money and I have full access to it. I am a SAHM and used to earn good money myself, but willingly gave up my career to look after the kids. If I left I would get a lot of money, but I hate the thought of being a single mother. Why? To be honest because I would feel like I'd failed (there is pretty much no divorce in my family), and i'd be terrified of the effect on our son who adores both of us. I know that I lead a very charmed life and that H works hard to provide it for us. But he is stressed, often moody and difficult to live with as a result. He also expects me to do all of the home 'admin' (or find someone else to do it - he seems to think you can pay for everything...) which often leaves me feeling quite stressed myself.

This is turning into an essay but one more relevant fact... My H suffered from a big drop in testosterone over the last 12 months, due to medication he was taking. The arguments practically disappeared. However, he has nearly recovered now and things are going back to how they used to be. My ability to deal with them, having been through a 'good patch', is worse than ever. But if hormones are to blame, then is it fair to break up the relationship??

Thanks for listening to my rant.

OP posts:
Jan45 · 24/07/2014 13:21

He is wrong on everything, normal happy couples do not have rows like yours - he's an abusive arse with zero respect for you.

I only had to read the first couple of paragraphs to work that out.

Up to you OP, either keep sucking it up or believe in yourself and your right to a happy contented life, and, for your child also, you aint gonna get it with him.

Glastokitty · 24/07/2014 13:59

This is no way to live the only life you've got. Really, it isn't! I'd rather live in a ditch than have to tip toe around a bully, and subject my child to living like this. Please, please think about what you are doing, this is not a good kind man, and staying with him will damage your children, and you.

LucyLollie · 24/07/2014 14:18

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for responding. I am going to see what happens over the rest of summer. There's another 12 months before my eldest starts school and life starts to become more difficult to uproot (I know there's never a perfect time to think about leaving someone, but I feel better giving myself a time limit). I will make a promise to myself to STOP apologising in order to keep the peace. I will remain calm, walk away from his moods, but refuse to be told how I'm feeling and how 'bad' I'm being if I haven't actually done anything. I'll see how that goes over summer and - if it comes to it - I can take the kids to my parents' place if i decide the atmosphere at home is becoming too toxic, while we decide what to do.
I might post back here if I get confused by things again. Thank you for the support and advice.

OP posts:
hellsbellsmelons · 24/07/2014 14:22

Yes - you need to stand up to bullies.
So do your best not to be bullied anymore.
You have a plan in place and that's a good start.
Everyone is here to support you no matter what so please do come back for support when ever you need it.
Good luck!

whatdoesittake48 · 24/07/2014 14:45

Just to say - you are not alone about the apologising for things you didn't do thing - i do that too. it is soul sapping.

My husband will also have a go about things not being done to his liking. Example is me making him coffee in the morning and being accused of doing it as a way to get him up when he wanted a sleep in. buying the wrong stuff for lunch and making him the wrong sandwich - without asking what he wants (this shows I just walkover his feelings and needs apparently). making tea instead of coffee, using the wrong mug...it goes on.

The rules change all the time.

I am also told I say things in the wrong tone, with the wrong facial expression or hand gesture and that this indicates i am saying it in a mean accusatory way. I have to apologise for this even though it isn't true.

The result - you shut up..you say nothing, complain about nothing and offer no ideas of you own. You ask permission constantly and check everything twice in case it is one of those things that will be wrong in his eyes.

I thought i was the only one too. I question myself so much that i can't be rational.

Namechangearoonie123 · 24/07/2014 14:50

Sounds like your married to my ex husband

Leave, I did.

LucyLollie · 24/07/2014 14:51

whatdoesittake48 - you have described my husband exactly. I get told off for using the wrong mug too (he likes a particular mug for tea, a different one for coffee and there are some mugs that he will NOT drink from at all). If I get it wrong, he doesn't laugh it off, he is actually offended and angry. He interprets my forgetfulness as an indication that I don't care about him.

But do you find your husband is guilty of the very same things? I got told off once for forgetting that he didn't like a certain kind of cheese. A while later, he suggested that I might like to try something on a menu that I've never eaten and have never liked... I actually found myself tempted to behave like him, and to say "how dare you forget that I don't like that." But obviously I wouldn't ever say such a thing. It's just interesting that he can't even live up to his own standards.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 24/07/2014 14:52

I'm glad you're feeling more assertive OP and are thinking about how to stand up to the bullying. Expect there to be objections to the 'new you' however. Anticipate a ramping up of abusive behaviour if the thinks you're not toeing the line adequately. Anticipate it, observe it, record it and - above all - please stay safe. If you are pushed to the floor again, for example, call the police.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 24/07/2014 14:53

" If I get it wrong, he doesn't laugh it off, he is actually offended and angry."

Do you ever tell him to make his own drinks?

hellsbellsmelons · 24/07/2014 14:55

Good grief Whatdoesit
Get out and get out fast.
Why oh why would you put up with that?
Contact Womens Aid and get an exit plan together!

wyrdyBird · 24/07/2014 15:14

Glad you have an initial plan in place, LucyLollie.
This is in no way normal, and it is emotional abuse. Many women believe their situation is unusual or unique, or that stress plays a large part. :(

The resources on this thread may be helpful:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2046231-Support-thread-for-those-in-Emotionally-Abusive-Relationships-thread-29

  • and try the books by Bancroft and Evans.
Patricia Evans, in particular, tries to explain why abusive people think you can read their mind (or remember all their preferences) - and why they get enraged, or think you're mad, when you don't.
bragmatic · 24/07/2014 15:25

Whatdoesittake, you deserve much better.

NigellasDealer · 24/07/2014 15:27

He regularly swears at me and calls me names (mental, insane and mad are the favourites at the moment, but he also uses bitch a lot
this is really bad not only for you but wat kind of model of behaviour is that for your son?

Jan45 · 24/07/2014 15:47

You will leave if it gets toxic???

It's already toxic OP, in fact you are with an abusive arsehole who won't change, changing your behaviours won't make any difference either.

No it's never a good time to leave a relationship but the one you are in sounds absolutely intolerable, I pity your children having to see it all.

I hope you get the courage to do the right thing, if not for yourself, do it for the children's sake, give them a normal life, not this mess you call a family unit........he's calling you mental, insane and a bitch, no doubt in front of them, disgusting.

Roussette · 24/07/2014 15:57

I think you have resigned yourself to staying, whatever, OP. But is this any way to live? If my DH demanded tea in a certain cup always and he was offended and angry if I got that wrong, I would purposely never make it in his 'chosen' cup to try and illustrate how ridiculous, petty and mean he was being.

Your 'D'H is a controlling b***d and you should not have to live like this. What about being yourself instead of tailoring every single thing you doto not upsetting him?

whatdoesittake48 · 24/07/2014 16:18

The thing is that these incidents occur randomly. It isntevery time. This keeps you of guard. You relax and think alk is well and suddenly you have offended again.
Don't worry I am well aware of what is going on an developing plans to deal with it at the moment it isn't by leaving but asserting myself is happening slowly.

I am later in the stage of realisation than the op. I recognise it and an no longer surprised. Just working on strategies. I bide my time and pick my moments and get stronger daily. It is working for now.

LOLeater · 24/07/2014 16:27

Write down incidents with date and time.
Good luck OP.

Jan45 · 24/07/2014 16:41

I actually found myself tempted to behave like him, and to say "how dare you forget that I don't like that." But obviously I wouldn't ever say such a thing. It's just interesting that he can't even live up to his own standards.

I assume you would never say such a thing because you are an intelligent considerate adult - so why do you think you deserve to live your life with someone who is just downright nasty, inconsiderate, fake, verbally/physically abuse....the list goes on.

Why you are choosing to live your life through such an evil person, I just don't know, because you do have a choice, he hasn't got a gun at your head, you are not his hostage.

A charmed life - your life sounds thoroughly miserable.

ThatWasNice · 24/07/2014 17:03

This is more than being a bit snappy and grumpy. He doesn't sound like he likes you Sad. I don't. Think I could stay with someone that was that unkind and agressive to me.

LucyLollie · 15/08/2014 21:54

I started this thread a couple of weeks ago after a row with H. Tonight we have fallen out again and I wanted to pick up the same thread so that I can add to what I've already said about our relationship. I find myself again questioning whether I'm in an abusive relationship. Not sure whether anyone else ever does this, but I'm hoping i can keep everything in the same place and it might be useful if I ever need to look back and see what kinds of patterns have emerged in how/why we argue...

First, I want to say this is the first time we have fallen out since last time, so it's been 3 weeks. Those 3 weeks have been genuinely lovely.

I wrote about his aggression last time. Today we were travelling home together on public transport, after he'd been at work all day and I had gone to meet him with the kids. All four of us were heading for the train when H decided to confront a complete stranger about how 'rude' he was to me. I was completely oblivious, but apparently this man had rolled his eyes and looked generally pissed off at me being in his way (I was pushing the pram). To be fair, I don't doubt that the man might have looked pissed off - but my own attitude to such things is to ignore them and carry on with my day, or perhaps to roll my eyes back (at most). My H can never let such things go. He immediately said something like "sorry WHY did you just look at my wife like that?!!". I told him to leave it, but he ignored me and argued with the man for the next minute or so about whether or not he'd been rude. If it's relevant, this was happening in London where people are often quite rude and unpleasant on public transport. I was embarrassed, but mostly mortified that my son was hearing his Dad have an incident with a complete stranger. As we walked away, my H told me I should have stayed out of it, but otherwise things went on as normal... until we got on the next train. My son announced he wanted to sit down (he's 4, but not incapable of standing) and H said loudly to those occupying the seats "well it's up to THESE MEN whether they will let you sit down..." (i.e. implying they should get up). I cringed, and whispered to him "you can;t always tell who needs a seat!"... but two men got up to let me and my son sit down.

Anyway, fast forward to an hour later when we were home. I was going to leave the whole thing and not raise it again, but H brought up the two incidents and told me that I should have supported him, shouldn't have "been on his case" about it and disagreed with him in front of the various people, and that he was only sticking up for me. Perhaps this is true - I;m sitting here seriously doubting whether I'm being too hard on him and whether I avoid confrontation too much (I feel v confused about this!) - but I explained that I found it embarrassing. At this point he started accusing me of being in a bad mood (one of his usual lines) and of being unsupportive, not having his back and other such dramatic accusations. He also told me it's obvious I think he's a cock (!!!). His voice was getting louder, our son was sitting in the next room, and I kept my voice quiet and controlled the entire time. I asked him to stop shouting. It got worse and worse and culminated in him saying "fuck you" and telling me to fuck off. I am sure our son would have heard. He then stormed out.

Two minutes later, I heard awful crying. I rushed into the other room to ask why our son was crying. It turns out it was about something silly, but i'm aware that I looked very accusing when I asked. I very much expected H to have turned his temper against our son too. When he saw how I looked and asked the question, it enraged H even further. He is now still furious with me about all of this, probably most of all that I assumed he had upset our son. He won't be in the same room as me, has repeatedly shouted and name-called ("stupid" is the word tonight) and has told me we have different standards when it comes to how we expect people to treat us in public.

Sorry for the long post. TBH I'm just finding it useful to keep a record of things here. But advice is very much appreciated because I don't know whether I have created this latest issue through being too critical of his attempts to defend (?) his family when people don't like giving up seats and giving way to people with pushchairs.... I hope this isn;t too much of a stream of consciousness. The essence of the argument is pretty much nothing, but again I've had to deal with shouting, being sworn at and called names, and all in front of our little boy. How can he think it's OK to do that????? Or am I just dreadful at provoking him?? Please tell me if you think I was wrong (even if partly) to criticise him for his comments to the people on the train.

OP posts:
dunfightin · 15/08/2014 22:13

Sounds like he is a bully generally and that you and the DCs are an extension of how he sees himself i.e. his wife being treated in a way he didn't like.
Does his job mean that others have to bow and scrape for him? Is he the boss? It's no excuse but he is clearly used to pushing people around and expects to be deferred to - not nice in any situation.
I'd bet he'd be the kind of commuter who rolls his eyes when people with kids get on his train when he's alone. I used to travel at commuting times with my kids quite a lot. Yes, you get the obvious signs of displeasure sometimes but honestly trying to pick a fight with someone is not on. And he expects you to back him up Hmm.

thestamp · 15/08/2014 22:20

he sounds horrible op.

even if you were being unsupportive (not convinced you were, tbh, he just sounds hugely unpleasant and spoiling for a public brawl wrt the train etc.), he's now sworn at you and called you names. all because you were uncomfortable with his behaviour in public and dared to say so...

i mean really. even if someone IS in the wrong, it's STILL abusive to swear at them, tell them to fuck off, and call them names.

while DS is in the next room, too.

i think you need to seriously think about leaving this situation. it's not doing the children any good. i would bet that DS cried like that in part because he was very disturbed by his father's earlier behaviour.

MothershipG · 15/08/2014 22:34

His behaviour is NOT ok, you didn't provoke him and even if you had his behaviour would still not be ok.

If you step back and re-read your posts as if it was someone else writing them what would you think?

How can you think it's in the best interests of your children to stay with a man who tells them to shut up? Who tells them they are not important. Who treats their mother with such disrespect and thinks it's ok to do that in front of them.

Annarose2014 · 15/08/2014 22:40

Its only a matter of time before your son tells you to fuck off.

I hate your husband.

tallwivglasses · 15/08/2014 22:51

I'm horrified OP. Your life is like a nightmare to me. You are NOT being moody, uncaring, or anything else he chooses to throw at you, HE'S being an abusive, bullying prick.