Infidelity

[NCforconfidentiality]

Having read the relationships board afair bit since my exhusband and I seperated a couple of years ago, and reflecting on my own experiences, I can't help but wonder if all men are cheating, would cheat if they had the opportunity, are looking for opportunities, on POF and the like.

My dad cheated on my mum.
Her best friend's husband tried it on with her.

My exh cheated on me. He was the last person I'd have ever expected to cheat. I know everyone says that, but I really thought I'd found a 'good one'. The kind who dropped a friend who invited him to a lapdancing club when we were together, hated the way some TV storylines treated infidelity so casually, never even so much as noticeably looked at another woman in the street, didn't flirt, didn't go out much, worked hard, good family man... blah blah... then I discovered he'd been going on NSA websites and was having an affair with a woman at work. I ended the marriage.

My LTR before that cheated on me and got another woman pregnant while we were together.

Since then, four men have shown an interest in me. Two of them are/were married. (One is single. The other is my boyfriend.)

The first, I met through friends. We hit it off and became friends. He went on to tell me that he'd fallen in love with me and tried every line: they were only together for the children; he would leave if he could; they didn't have sex anymore; they should never have married in the first place; they weren't even friends any more... I ended the 'friendship'.

The second was more of a shock. I've known he and his wife for several years. He isn't claiming to be in love with me, and I certainly don't think he's looking for an 'exit affair'. I'm assuming he just fancies me and thinks it would be nice to see what I'm 'like', or something. I suppose. Who knows.

The point is, the wives of both of these men would think they have nothing to worry about. I don't really know the first man's wife very well, but he is quiet, unassuming, rather lacking in confidence, educated, intelligent and intellectual. The second, I know trusts her husband implicitly, he clearly and openly adores her, and, the sad thing is, he is the man I kept in mind as 'proof' that there are decent men out there. These are both decent, hardworking, either at work or at home, not out at the pub or away on business... The kind of men that women on here are with who say, "I know my husband would never cheat". At least one is close with his wife, there are no cracks in their relationship, he is supportive of her, and compliments her and is just lovely and sweet to her. In fact, I have always held every aspect of their family/relationship in my mind as proof that it's out there and it can work. These are those men.

And I haven't done anything to court or invite it. I'm not the sort of woman other women worry about being around their husbands; I've really rather average in most respects, I don't flirt. I'm hardly a 'femme fatale'. So I'm guessing it's not the first time for either of them in reality.

History suggests I'm the sort of woman men cheat on , not with So this is really affecting how I feel about my own boyfriend and relationships in general.

And I know people are going to say that these men are just bastards and that there are decent men out there, but these are the decent men. Or at least, their wives (and I!) believed they are, and that's all any of us have to go on after all, isn't it?

I'm not sure he'd be capable of getting his 'type' anymore.

That's the thing though, I don't want him to look at me and think about how I'm not as pretty as X, or as sexy as Y, or as hot as Z but at least I'm lovely and sweet and not likely to stray...

He was talking about his one previous really serious girlfriend who broke his heart. He said, "She was beautiful and sexy. You're beautiful and sweet. She was never sweet..."

Just makes me feel like shit really. But I don't think he meant to.

You say you don't know what else you can work on but your body issues and deep seated self esteem issues of not being good enough are screaming off the laptop. They are what you need to deal with I think. You are in real danger of pushing him away by your non verbal communication. You might not think he is picking up on it but he is.

Sounds to me like he's valuing sweet over sexy.

Are you sure he didn't mean that you are beautiful AND sexy AND sweet, rather than making a distinction? I see no reason why you wouldn't be sexy to him - he wants to sleep with you, doesn't he?

It's easier to get things right in written word than it is in spoken.

I don't know how to do that, though Doit. I just don't know where to start. I've had counselling to help with some other stuff, but I just don't have time anymore. I don't know what else to do. I didn't feel any better about myself when I was 2 stone lighter and fitter because my frame actually suit me being a little curvier. So I know that isn't the answer. But it isn't attractive or 'good enough'.

I think that I am subconsciously pushing him away. I have tried to end it already because of how I feel about myself and he was really upset about it. I would be devastated if it ended, but also I imagine I'd experience a huge wave of relief.

I almost need to discover he has betrayed me to validate what I already know so that I can recall that truth if I ever feel tempted to have another relationship in the future.

I don't know.

I suppose I just feel that if he is feeling a bit 'horny' that's outside of me and it has nothing to do with me.

I just don't know what to think. He has told me that if I'm ever worried about anything I can just ask him, that's what he's there for. But I don't want to. He is honest and I don't think he'd sugar coat anything to spare my feelings. I think he'd just tell me it how it is.

Which, to be honest, is how I'd prefer it. But it doesn't seem worth putting myself through it when I'm fairly confident of what he is going to say anyway.

Well you won't know for sure unless you ask him!

NC, a person doesn't cheat because you are worthy or unworthy, they cheat because of their own reasons.

You need to value yourself for who you are not by things that are outside your control.

NC you need to learn to feel better about yourself just as you are. A lot of us do and it is difficult. He sounds like he loves you just the way you are and I don't think you really want this to end. Stop trying to protect yourself from what might happen in the relationship. It might happen that he loves you , marries you and you both live happily ever after. If you both create a supportive relationship where both parties feel happy, listened too, nourished and feel their needs (whatever they may be) are acknowledged then there is good reason to expect your relationship to work. Its when you lose sight of this that things go awry.

How do you do that though, Doit and lunar?

I do have periods of feeling better about myself. But when I consider myself in relation to men or relationships, it all falls apart.

As I said, I have hobbies where my worth is validated, I have interests outside of my family, I don't really know what I can do.

And then I come back to the bottom line, which is that it doesn't matter how much better I feel about myself, I'm still not going to be slim or attractive. I'm still not going to look any better.

I don't think I really doubt that he loves me, just that I know he will be looking at other women and thinking they're better than me, because they are, and that's what I can't deal with.

Or the idea that he really wants to be with me because I'm 'nice' but that he's having to force the other stuff because I just don't do it for him. I wonder if he's willing himself to find me attractive when, deep down, he just doesn't.

Or the idea that he has 'settled' for me.

Or the thought that he has consciously decided to go for someone less attractive.

Or that he is looking at women who are his type and recognising that they're better than me...

I think you need to look at yourself and who you are. Not who you are seen by others, or how others behave to you. Some people in life will be shitty to us and some will be amazing.

It doesn't change who you are if someone cheats, it's a reflection of them not you.

You are putting a lot of emphasis on appearance. Don't you think he's attracted to more than that? So somebody looks like a Barbie doll... She may have the most abrasive personality and bad breath.

One person's George Clooney is another person's back end of a bus.

Why would he be looking at other women thinking any of those things though. Why? Hes not. Its in your head woman.

From this thread alone I can tell you are an intelligent woman and incredibly insightful.

These are not traits gifted to everyone. Not even close.

There are some very good books out there on the subject OP. Maybe you could get one and do some work on yourself. Look at reviews. One I like is Mirror Mirror Dr. Lindas Body image revolution. But there are loads on Amazon for all sorts of body image and self worth problems.

He would be thinking those things, Doit, because they are true. Because that's what I think when I look at other women. Because I'm not the sort of woman that men find attractive. Because my unattractive qualities far outweigh my attractive ones. Because he told me the other day that he loves my eyes and my nose and my smile and my skin and my feet. And nothing inbetween He describes his ex girlfriends as 'sexy' and yet he can't even bring himself to lie about finding those similar qualities in me because it would be obvious to both of us that he is lying. And he doesn't lie.

Eve I suppose he must be attracted to more than just looks, but that appearance won't even come into it for him as far as I'm concerned. And given that most men cheat based on looks, the chances are he is/has/will cheat and that she will be 'better' than me.

And those traits are not a gift, Eve, it's a curse.

I think I'm going to have to leave this. There's nothing that anyone has said, or can say that I haven't already tried to tell myself, and that I haven't already been able to shoot down somehow.

The fact is, whether he has done anything yet or not, it's not making me happy and I just feel like I'm waiting for the inevitable

I'll have a look at those Doit.

Thank you.

I haven't shopped at Amazon for a couple of weeks, they'll be wondering what's happened to me...

Most men don't have affairs with other women because of their good looks. Its how the women make the man feel usually.

He doesn't sound very complimentary towards you though does he but im sure he is not looking at other women in the way you think. If he wanted to be with other women then he would be with them and not you. But he is with you. He doesn't have to stay with you. He is free to go. You see, this is why I think its more in your head than reality.

Its actually all in your head with regard to him. He hasn't done anything to make you feel that he will cheat. Maybe you read him wrong. Please have a look for some good books to help yourself. Your worth it.

I can categorically say that most of then who have cheated that I know haven't exactly traded up IYSWIM

*the men

Well I think he's probably being as complimentary as he feels he can be.

What is he supposed to do? Lie? Is he supposed to tell me I'm beautiful if I'm not? Or sexy if I'm not? Or that he loves my bum if he doesn't? What exactly should it look like? I don't know. But the fact is that any of those compliments would be a lie from anyone.

After a whole day of reflecting and thinking about this, I've come to the conclusion that he's with me because he thinks I'm the sort of woman he should be trying to have a relationship with - you know, one who has shared values, is loyal, caring, considerate and thoughtful... but the bottom line is, he just doesn't really fancy me.

I think if he did, I'd pick up on it and these issues would be less of a concern. Perhaps I'm only really worrying about it because this is no different to the woman who is normally attracted to 'bad boys' trying to date a 'nice guy'. She can see that she should be, she knows it's the right thing to do and that that way a happy future lies, but the bottom line is that she just doesn't fancy him.

That's what I think is happening.

I think he's probably congratulating himself on how mature he's being and convincing himself that it's the right thing to do because I'm not his usual type, and he's not with me for my looks... and all that.

But he's ignoring the huge elephant in the room which is that he just doesn't fancy me.

I really think you are overthinking this. Please, just enjoy what you have; it may fall apart, it may not. The sky may fallin, it may not.

If you must angst, then do it about something you CAN change.

OP, I feel sad you are in such turmoil over this. Not sure why he would be with you if he did not fancy you. You are overthinking this (as you know) and those negative thoughts are manifesting themselves as a big wall between you. Seems like you will inadvertently (subconsciously) sabotage this relationship with high probability unless you shake off these irrational insecurities (easier said than done I know). Maybe try to hold this all a little lighter from day to day safe in the knowledge you can (and have) already survived the worst previously...