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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

Infidelity

118 replies

NCforconfidentiality · 22/07/2014 05:14

Having read the relationships board afair bit since my exhusband and I seperated a couple of years ago, and reflecting on my own experiences, I can't help but wonder if all men are cheating, would cheat if they had the opportunity, are looking for opportunities, on POF and the like.

My dad cheated on my mum.
Her best friend's husband tried it on with her.

My exh cheated on me. He was the last person I'd have ever expected to cheat. I know everyone says that, but I really thought I'd found a 'good one'. The kind who dropped a friend who invited him to a lapdancing club when we were together, hated the way some TV storylines treated infidelity so casually, never even so much as noticeably looked at another woman in the street, didn't flirt, didn't go out much, worked hard, good family man... blah blah... then I discovered he'd been going on NSA websites and was having an affair with a woman at work. I ended the marriage.

My LTR before that cheated on me and got another woman pregnant while we were together.

Since then, four men have shown an interest in me. Two of them are/were married. (One is single. The other is my boyfriend.)

The first, I met through friends. We hit it off and became friends. He went on to tell me that he'd fallen in love with me and tried every line: they were only together for the children; he would leave if he could; they didn't have sex anymore; they should never have married in the first place; they weren't even friends any more... I ended the 'friendship'.

The second was more of a shock. I've known he and his wife for several years. He isn't claiming to be in love with me, and I certainly don't think he's looking for an 'exit affair'. I'm assuming he just fancies me and thinks it would be nice to see what I'm 'like', or something. I suppose. Who knows.

The point is, the wives of both of these men would think they have nothing to worry about. I don't really know the first man's wife very well, but he is quiet, unassuming, rather lacking in confidence, educated, intelligent and intellectual. The second, I know trusts her husband implicitly, he clearly and openly adores her, and, the sad thing is, he is the man I kept in mind as 'proof' that there are decent men out there. These are both decent, hardworking, either at work or at home, not out at the pub or away on business... The kind of men that women on here are with who say, "I know my husband would never cheat". At least one is close with his wife, there are no cracks in their relationship, he is supportive of her, and compliments her and is just lovely and sweet to her. In fact, I have always held every aspect of their family/relationship in my mind as proof that it's out there and it can work. These are those men.

And I haven't done anything to court or invite it. I'm not the sort of woman other women worry about being around their husbands; I've really rather average in most respects, I don't flirt. I'm hardly a 'femme fatale'. So I'm guessing it's not the first time for either of them in reality.

History suggests I'm the sort of woman men cheat on , not with So this is really affecting how I feel about my own boyfriend and relationships in general.

And I know people are going to say that these men are just bastards and that there are decent men out there, but these are the decent men. Or at least, their wives (and I!) believed they are, and that's all any of us have to go on after all, isn't it?

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Jan45 · 23/07/2014 16:18

Most men and women do cheat in their life time, sad but true. The fact, us as humans prefer to think oh it could never happen to me is what gives us a sense of pride and security, if we actually were honest we'd realise that you can't actually trust anyone 100%, including yourself!

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HotDogJumpingFrogAlburquerque · 23/07/2014 16:12

I disagree with Doitforme as cheating is often NOT a symptom of a relationship breaking down, but purely a selfish person who wants to have their cake and eat it, nothing more. Of course there are exceptions, but I'd bet in many more than half the cases, it's selfishness. They want to do it and think they will get away with it.

Having said that, OP I do think the fact that he has What'sapp is not a reason in itself to break up with someone. Especially if he has family abroad, it's just a free way of keeping in touch.

However, I would say that if you feel tells way about yourself, the relationship is not working for you, and that is reason enough.

Take care.

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EveMarieSaint · 23/07/2014 15:56

Thanks OP. You sound lovely.

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Doitforme · 23/07/2014 15:24

Hi
Well if you feel better then that is all that matters. I think you need to spend some time doing that very important work on yourself before you embark on any more relationships. Maybe it would be helpful to learn more about yourself and your past relationships to see if you can understand where your relationships have come into difficulties. I understand that you left them because of infidelity but maybe there is a lot that went on with regards to behaviours or insecurities etc within the relationships before they went wrong. I understand you have a gut feeling that this one is cheating too so maybe you need to work out why you keep choosing the same type of man OR is could it be that the way you are in a relationship is detrimental to the health of the relationship. All I have to go on is this thread and you do seem to have condemned this boyfriend without any evidence at all. He is on Whatsapp as are you now. He has family overseas so may use it for keeping in touch just as you are now doing with your ex husband.
It would seem that you have jumped boat with this relationship believing that he will be like all the others but could it possibly be that the way you act within relationships could be detrimental and end up in the collapse of it. Cheating is the end product and the symptom of something wrong within the relationship. Of course its not right but it happens as you have seen.
Im not trying to say that you are to blame for the breakdown of all your relationships just that you maybe could do with a deeper look at your behaviour within them. From what you have said on here your attitude and insecurities may have a lot to do with it. You think you hide it well but it will come out in ways you are not aware of. Its too simple to believe that everyone cheats at some point, there are many reasons why people end up cheating and there are many types of affairs.

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NCforconfidentiality · 23/07/2014 10:24

Thanks for listening yesterday.

I've made the decision this morning to end things with my boyfriend.

I don't know whether I'm being OTT or not, but I can't do this.

My exH emailed this morning to suggest I download whatsapp so that we can exchange picture/video messages of the children. I did and saw my boyfriend on there.

My biggest suspicion has been that he is conducting 'sexual relationships' with women online or by messaging. I don't have any proof /evidence of this at all, but it's just a really strong gut feeling I have. As I said right at the start, I think they're all pretty much at it.

He claims to like sex, but doesn't really seem all that interested in having very much sex with me (understandably). He says that he likes me for more than just that. So he must be engaging in some sex with someone, somewhere.

He hasn't texted me since Thursday (spent the weekend together) and he only got a smart phone a couple of weeks ago. He hasn't mentioned getting whatsapp but he's obvioulsy not using it with me - although he does have friends and family overseas. We don't see each other very often due to distance and other commitments so he has a lot of time on his hands... But it's all just kind of confirmed it for me.

I don't know if my gut feeling is based on something I've subconsiously picked up on from him (I can't pinpoint any behaviours as such) or whether it's just because of how I feel about myself. But, as it stands, I just want out.

There's no point talking to him about it. He'd very easily be able to change my mind, but I don't think there's anything he could say that would reassure me beyond that initial rush of relief. And if he is completely innocent of everything, then he's better off without me anyway!

It makes me sad. I said yesterday I'd be devastated if it ended. I'm crying now. But this feeling will pass. The utter revulsion I felt towards myself for not being good enough was constant and unrelenting.

Thanks again.

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3mum · 23/07/2014 00:14

But surely NC, whilst looks may be initial attractant, you don't stay with someone for their looks, you stay with them because you like who they are. Frankly I think the impact of looks wears off pretty quickly. In telling you he thought you are sweet I think your DP was telling you that he likes you as a person. I think that is far more valuable than a looks comparison.

He likes your looks enough to be with you so I think you can safely assume that he does think you are attractive, but do bear in mind that it is not looks which keep someone, otherwise none of the Cheryl Cole's and Beyonce's of this world would be cheated on.

BTW I say that as someone whose ExH cheated and that led to the end of our marriage because I no longer saw him as someone who was worthy of my trust, time and attention. I have always believed though that he did it because of his own issues about ageing, ED, is this all there is to life etc rather than because I am inherently defective.

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HotDogJumpingFrogAlburquerque · 23/07/2014 00:07

OP I agree that you are putting your perceived lack of attractiveness way, way too high up on the scale.

Firstly, it's really not ALL about looks. His exes may have been slim and gorgeous, but maybe they were boring, no sense of humour, a bit dim, completely vain, a sponger, etc. They may not have clicked, there maybe was no chemistry. Loving and fancying someone is probably only 10% based on looks.

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NCforconfidentiality · 22/07/2014 23:30

Loving Always. I just feel like there's no getting away from it now and there's nothing I can say to myself that will make it any better.

I have tried to tell myself that confidence is what makes someone attractive, or that I don't need to be stick thin to be sexy... That worked in the beginning, but it's not working anymore.

And knowing that all of his exes have been slim and attractive is making it more difficult because I feel like there's nowhere to hide and I must just be a constant source of disappointment and revulsion to him.

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Animalgirl · 22/07/2014 22:50

Yes men fancy women who are conventionally attractive, but they also fancy women who don't fit the stereotypical image. Even for men attraction isn't based on purely what you look like. You have your own opinion about your attractiveness and you don't sound like you will be dissuaded from that opinion, but that doesn't mean that men don't find you attractive.

You sound a great person, if your boyfriend wasn't attracted to you he wouldn't be with you. Gaining confidence would help improve your opinion of yourself enormously, that's not easy to do but it can be done. If you feel down about yourself you probably don't think that your boyfriend could find you sexy, but it doesn't mean that he doesn't. When he says nice things about you believe him.

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Sallystyle · 22/07/2014 22:35

Don't stats prove that that the majority of men and women do actually cheat?

A study was done recently and around 50% cheated in the first year of marriage.

Considering the amount of infidelity that goes on I think it might be true that most people will cheat at some point in their lives in a serious relationship.

I have not been cheated on. My husband doesn't work right now and probably won't again (as I said on another thread today). He is disabled and rarely goes out and never goes out to the pubs etc, so the chances of him cheating are extremely low. He doesn't get much of an opportunity even if he wanted to.

I don't trust anyone 100%. Never met anyone who has been cheated on who didn't trust their partners 100% at some point.

I do think though that there are also a lot of other awful things someone can do in a marriage.

When I was with my ex he was financially abusive and a gambling addict who got ME into a lot of debt. When I once posted elsewhere that I was having feelings for someone else I was told that cheating would be a shitty thing to do and my behaviour was deemed much worse than my ex husbands Hmm Not that anything excuses cheating but I certainly don't think cheating is the worse thing that goes on like a lot of people seem to think.

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Twrch62 · 22/07/2014 22:03

Yes, anyone could, but I think most don't.

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Branleuse · 22/07/2014 21:59

anyone could cheat.

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Twrch62 · 22/07/2014 21:55

Can I just add I think most men DON'T cheat, I may have led a sheltered life, but I know very few men who have cheated. My first wife started an affair 6 months after we married, and I didn't find out for another 18months. Divorced at 26, remarried at 29, coming up to our 23rd wedding anniversary and all I can say is I've never put myself in a situation where I could, or wanted to be in one, or ever considered having an affair.I don't think I'm unusual.

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Doitforme · 22/07/2014 21:11

OP....if you really think he doesn't fancy you and has to think of other women when having sex with you then I feel you really need some help.

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Lovingfreedom · 22/07/2014 20:01

Hmm do you usually feel this insecure about your body or is it only with this partner?

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NCforconfidentiality · 22/07/2014 19:45

Tyrion I will sabotage it because I don't believe he finds me attractive. Even when he does tell me he does.

I don't think there is anything he could say that would convince me otherwise.

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NCforconfidentiality · 22/07/2014 19:39

Loving He doesn't hark on about them. I think he was hurt really badly by one of his exes several years ago and he said she is the only other woman he has truly loved. She cheated on him and broke his heart. He said that knew it was all wrong but she was really beautiful and sexy... that's when he said, "but you. You are beautiful and sweet. She was never sweet"

He doesn't talk about other women, but I know that he think's his best friend's ex was 'beautiful', his mother is 'beautiful', most of the women he works with are 'beautiful'.

What he actually said was, "Do you know what I love about you?" Me: "what?" Him: "your eyes, your nose, your smile, your skin, your feet." So no, he didn't say "and nothing in between" but he didn't mention anything in between.

But then he wouldn't. Because the bits in between aren't attractive. But he hasn't dated other women where the bits inbetweeen haven't been attractive. All the other women he's dated have been slim and toned and tanned and beautiful. I just can't see quite what he'd be doing with me if it wasn't a conscious effort to try and date someone outside of his type.

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Lovingfreedom · 22/07/2014 19:11

Did he say he finds nothing between your head and your feet attractive? If he's always harking on about sexy exes and giving half arsed compliments then it's not surprising you feel insecure.

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TyrionRocks · 22/07/2014 19:04

OP, I feel sad you are in such turmoil over this. Not sure why he would be with you if he did not fancy you. You are overthinking this (as you know) and those negative thoughts are manifesting themselves as a big wall between you. Seems like you will inadvertently (subconsciously) sabotage this relationship with high probability unless you shake off these irrational insecurities (easier said than done I know). Maybe try to hold this all a little lighter from day to day safe in the knowledge you can (and have) already survived the worst previously...

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Lesnewth · 22/07/2014 19:03

I really think you are overthinking this. Please, just enjoy what you have; it may fall apart, it may not. The sky may fallin, it may not.

If you must angst, then do it about something you CAN change.

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NCforconfidentiality · 22/07/2014 18:37

I think he's probably congratulating himself on how mature he's being and convincing himself that it's the right thing to do because I'm not his usual type, and he's not with me for my looks... and all that.

But he's ignoring the huge elephant in the room which is that he just doesn't fancy me.

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NCforconfidentiality · 22/07/2014 18:11

Well I think he's probably being as complimentary as he feels he can be.

What is he supposed to do? Lie? Is he supposed to tell me I'm beautiful if I'm not? Or sexy if I'm not? Or that he loves my bum if he doesn't? What exactly should it look like? I don't know. But the fact is that any of those compliments would be a lie from anyone.

After a whole day of reflecting and thinking about this, I've come to the conclusion that he's with me because he thinks I'm the sort of woman he should be trying to have a relationship with - you know, one who has shared values, is loyal, caring, considerate and thoughtful... but the bottom line is, he just doesn't really fancy me.

I think if he did, I'd pick up on it and these issues would be less of a concern. Perhaps I'm only really worrying about it because this is no different to the woman who is normally attracted to 'bad boys' trying to date a 'nice guy'. She can see that she should be, she knows it's the right thing to do and that that way a happy future lies, but the bottom line is that she just doesn't fancy him.

That's what I think is happening.

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AnyFucker · 22/07/2014 18:07

*the men

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AnyFucker · 22/07/2014 18:06

I can categorically say that most of then who have cheated that I know haven't exactly traded up IYSWIM

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Doitforme · 22/07/2014 18:05

Its actually all in your head with regard to him. He hasn't done anything to make you feel that he will cheat. Maybe you read him wrong. Please have a look for some good books to help yourself. Your worth it.

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