Infidelity

[NCforconfidentiality]

Having read the relationships board afair bit since my exhusband and I seperated a couple of years ago, and reflecting on my own experiences, I can't help but wonder if all men are cheating, would cheat if they had the opportunity, are looking for opportunities, on POF and the like.

My dad cheated on my mum.
Her best friend's husband tried it on with her.

My exh cheated on me. He was the last person I'd have ever expected to cheat. I know everyone says that, but I really thought I'd found a 'good one'. The kind who dropped a friend who invited him to a lapdancing club when we were together, hated the way some TV storylines treated infidelity so casually, never even so much as noticeably looked at another woman in the street, didn't flirt, didn't go out much, worked hard, good family man... blah blah... then I discovered he'd been going on NSA websites and was having an affair with a woman at work. I ended the marriage.

My LTR before that cheated on me and got another woman pregnant while we were together.

Since then, four men have shown an interest in me. Two of them are/were married. (One is single. The other is my boyfriend.)

The first, I met through friends. We hit it off and became friends. He went on to tell me that he'd fallen in love with me and tried every line: they were only together for the children; he would leave if he could; they didn't have sex anymore; they should never have married in the first place; they weren't even friends any more... I ended the 'friendship'.

The second was more of a shock. I've known he and his wife for several years. He isn't claiming to be in love with me, and I certainly don't think he's looking for an 'exit affair'. I'm assuming he just fancies me and thinks it would be nice to see what I'm 'like', or something. I suppose. Who knows.

The point is, the wives of both of these men would think they have nothing to worry about. I don't really know the first man's wife very well, but he is quiet, unassuming, rather lacking in confidence, educated, intelligent and intellectual. The second, I know trusts her husband implicitly, he clearly and openly adores her, and, the sad thing is, he is the man I kept in mind as 'proof' that there are decent men out there. These are both decent, hardworking, either at work or at home, not out at the pub or away on business... The kind of men that women on here are with who say, "I know my husband would never cheat". At least one is close with his wife, there are no cracks in their relationship, he is supportive of her, and compliments her and is just lovely and sweet to her. In fact, I have always held every aspect of their family/relationship in my mind as proof that it's out there and it can work. These are those men.

And I haven't done anything to court or invite it. I'm not the sort of woman other women worry about being around their husbands; I've really rather average in most respects, I don't flirt. I'm hardly a 'femme fatale'. So I'm guessing it's not the first time for either of them in reality.

History suggests I'm the sort of woman men cheat on , not with So this is really affecting how I feel about my own boyfriend and relationships in general.

And I know people are going to say that these men are just bastards and that there are decent men out there, but these are the decent men. Or at least, their wives (and I!) believed they are, and that's all any of us have to go on after all, isn't it?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

You don't. Nobody does. An adult long-term relationship is a voluntary friendship and partnership. It relies a huge amount on trust and honesty with a big dollop of compromise and a bit of cynicism thrown in. It's not a place for naivety.

[NCforconfidentiality]

I think it is just making me think I don't want to be part of any of it.To be honest.

My boyfriend has plenty of opportunity to cheat. He says he wouldn't, how do I know whether he would/is doing or not? The truth is, I don't.

I think the chances are he is. Whether IRL or online.

I don't think I'm making much sense, really.

It's just that I think, in the case of one of these men, I thought I had seen someone who would resist. Who would be loyal and faithful to his wife. Who would notice and appreciate an attractive woman, but not do anything about it. And not only do I find that he not only would, but that he would be prepared to do it with one of her friends.

That level of confidence suggests to me that he's done it before.

And he was the 'proof', like I say, that not all men do. But he does.

And if he does, I can't imagine who doesn't. If that makes any sense.

[NCforconfidentiality]

I don't think it's a place for me, either, then.

[Viviennemary]

Lots of people cheat I expect. Some only once and nobody is any the wiser. But I don't think you can ever 100% really trust anyone. Is anybody perfect.

[EveMarieSaint]

Your post about the apple and the worm sums it up for me. It's the fear of not knowing - the fear that every time I take a bite, I may be eating the worm. I may be the fool.

But then, they would be the fools. They are the ones who would be weak and could not control themselves. In any other aspect of life this would look sad and pathetic. Pitiful.

My experience has taught me that the people I have loved and trusted - and not just romantically - have wanted to hurt me the most, they have done the most damage. I now expect to be hurt and regret opening my heart to anyone.

It is a horrible way to live and thing to feel; you have my sympathies.

[NCforconfidentiality]

I suppose I just think that if I was better looking, slimmer and had a better body it would be less likely to happen, too.

But I know that's not the truth. Both of the wives of these men are better looking, slimmer and have better bodies than me.

I suppose it's more that I couldn't bear the thought of someone cheating on me because they just didn't fancy me enough, or felt short changed because I'm not attractive enough... who would then spend the rest of the relationship remembering them and thinking about them instead of me.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

With respect OP, I think this whole thread says more about your insecurity than your opinion of men. Single status is a good thing in and of itself. If you treat it as some kind of emotional retreat where you go to run away from the difficulties of an adult relationship I think that downgrades it. Be happily independent, entertain bringing other people into your life if it makes your life better, but acknowledge that in doing so there is always the chance of getting hurt. Some of us would say that's what makes life interesting.

[NCforconfidentiality]

That's it Eve the fear that I am the fool. That I am supposed to believe that I'm am loved and cared for and respected but that I am not.

The ice I'm tentatively walking on is very thin as it is, after having been hurt very badly by people in the past.

I think I'd rather just step off it and not take the risk.

[Minus2seventy3]

NC - sounds like you're talking your way out of your relationship with your bf - you say he's had plenty an opportunity to cheat, but says he hasn't. And you don't know if you can believe him. Easy said, perhaps, but take him at his word, trust him unless he does something to not warrant that trust? Just go in with your eyes open. Is your relationship lopsided? Does he trust you? Because if he does, he's allowing you more potential to hurt him; he's putting more into the partnership than you, and some day, he may feel your lack of trust is a reason to part ways.
And this from another who's surprised you with a lack of morals, and an Internet board where only (or mostly) the bad stories are told?

[EveMarieSaint]

Besides spying on somebody, there isn't any way of being 100% sure they aren't cheating.

What do you get out of your relationship? Ruminating and anxieties aside, does it bring you some happiness?

[NCforconfidentiality]

minus He does trust me. Well he says he does. I don't think he finds it easy and he has said he's 'choosing' to trust me because I haven't given him reason not to and because he's aware of how destructive that constant doubt and insecurity is.

He says he hates liars and lying and that's why he'd never do it or tolerate it from others. I know that if I cheated on him, he'd finish it. But I'm also aware of how easily I could have cheated on him with either of these men, or anyone else, and he'd have absolutely no way of knowing. And he could do the same.

He has no idea I feel like this.

It doesn't help, either, that his previous girlfriends were beautiful, slim, tanned/olive skinned... and I'm none of those things. I'm distinctly 'average', a little overweight and rather pale and pasty.

[Lesnewth]

I can see where you're coming from OP, but I think you have to take the stance that you set your boundaries, make sure your OH is aware of them and then just live your life until something should happen to make you enforce them.

It's a bit like saying "I might get knocked down by a bus, or I might not".

The risk of that happening wouldn't stop you going about your daily life, would it?

You can't control what others do and you'll drive yourself crackers obsessing over it.

[NCforconfidentiality]

Eve I don't know.

I suppose I got out of it that I was worth something and felt attractive. I suppose I got out of it that I am loveable and valued. I suppose I got out of it that I have a right to those things. But knowing how fragile it all is just makes it seem a bit obselete.

I don't know.

[NCforconfidentiality]

No, Lesnewth, I wouldn't let the risk of something happening stop me from going about my daily life.

But at the same time if every train I'd ever taken had crashed, and I knew friends who had taken trains that had crashed, I might start thinking that I should avoid trains.

[Doitforme]

You seem to base all this on these two married men coming onto you. Maybe they came onto you because you seem lacking in self esteem and low worth. How do you know they were not just heavily flirting with you to make themselves feel better. Maybe they felt sorry for you. They may not have actually had sex with you if you had responded positively. You see yourself sd not pretty and overweight so that and your lack of self worth could be affecting how you perceive things. I think you need to do some work on yourself and learn to love yourself before you jeopardise your relationship and what you fear most happens.

[NCforconfidentiality]

Doit It's not really about me, though. Or why they would have said it to me.

It's about the fact that they'd be prepared to do it to their wives that bothered me.

I think I cover how I feel about myself pretty well. I don't like to be seen as 'fishing for compliments' or want to bore people with my fears. I think I come across as pretty accomplished and confident in most aspects of my life. This is a very deep seated thing though that I keep very much to myself. My relationship with myself is my most closely guarded secret.

I don't really know what work I could do on myself. I have hobbies and interests; I'm well qualified, and I have a job that I enjoy and feel valued in; I have a lot of friends; I'm very comfortable in my own company. I don't think it would be obvious that I have low self esteem. And I don't in all areas. Just this one.

[Doitforme]

Work on your deep seated insecurities that you just mentioned. You may not think they show but they do.

[Doitforme]

And as I said, how do you know they would have actually gone ahead with it. You didn't say yes so you don't know.

[NCforconfidentiality]

No, you're right. I didn't go ahead with it, so I didn't know. But one of them could have happened there and then. We were alone.

The other would have required a little more orchestration and could have just been flirting.

But even so, it that appropriate for a married person?

[NCforconfidentiality]

As I've said, I'm really conscious of the fact my boyfriend's exes have been really rather slim and beautiful. But it's not something we've ever talked about, or he's ever reassured me about because I've been trying to focus on the idea that confidence is the most attractive quality. So I've just blocked it out and it's not something I've ever broached with him.

But it doesn't make any sense to me. And I can't imagine that, given the opportunity with someone like this again, he wouldn't take it. That is clearly his type. I am not.

I suppose this is all tied up with the idea that I feel guilty and embarrassed that I'm not like that.

But I don't show it. I don't hide myself or my body, I don't apologise for myself, but everytime he looks at me or touches me a little bit more of me dies inside because I'm reminded of what I really do look/feel like.

And I suppose, I just kept reassuring myself that he would be faithful to me because I had evidence of other men remaining faithful to their wives/partners/girlfriends. Only they're not. So it feels like open season now.

Does that make any sense?

[Lesnewth]

Yes it makes sense but you can't stop him cheating IF he's going to, so you have to decide whether you are going to stay with him or withdraw from all relationships just in case they might cheat...

[warysara]

You have lots of body image and self-esteem issues that are really nothing to do with someone cheating on you. It would probably be wise to have a happy and fulfilled life to try and get those sorted out.

Cars crash, builds collapse, men cheat. All about probability and your aversion to risk.

[NCforconfidentiality]

Lesnewth and warysara Yes, you're right.

I think, as far as probablility goes, my feelings on this are that it's 'certainty'. It's just a case of when rather than if and I am somewhat risk averse...

I can't really see the point in it. It's making me feel really shitty about myself. I feel physically sick at times when I think about myself and what I look like/how unattractive I am. And it makes me cry to think of how he must view me and the comparisons he must be making with his ex girlfriends.

I think the bottom line is, I believe he loves me, but I don't see how he can fancy me. Which paves the way for him to be attracted to others.

I haven't contacted my boyfriend since Sunday night because I'm so in turmoil about this.

I have no way of knowing whether or not it is him. But I do know it is definitely me.

[NCforconfidentiality]

Thanks for the food for thought.

[Lesnewth]

But if he wanted to be with his 'type' then surely he would be?

My BIL has recently deviated from his 'type', his latest g/f is NOTHING like her predecessors. He's attracted to this one for different reasons, so it is probably the same for your OH. Sometimes people take stock and try something different.

Try not to let your issues cloud things, although I agree with your premise that anybody is capable of cheating.