Aggressive husband (sorry long story!)

[flowerpothead]

It has been a very bad week - we're trying to move house and it's all going terribly wrong and have the added stress of an 8 week old DS and just turned 2 DS. Last night I was in a foul mood after picking eldest up from nursery to find that again he had come home with awful awful nappy rash. I have been really struggling with doing bedtimes alone for the 2 of them and my H is usually home in time on Friday for bedtime. Yesterday he came home late, completely pissed after a big corporate event at Lords. We had a big row as I'm not happy about him going away for 2 nights on a stag do weekend after next and this brought it to a head. I know I was being a cow about it (saying I would email his friend and say he was only going for 1 night) but he totally flipped out.
He was holding me down on the sofa trying to get my phone off me then threw it forcefully onto the floor. He held me down so hard I have huge bruises on both arms and scratches. I told him I wanted him to go and stay at his mums (lives in same town). We were shouting but he then proceeded to push me hard against the fridge three times whilst still holding my wrists really hard then against the back door twice - I was terrified the glass would break. The fridge door is dented. Then I was cowering on the floor and I really thought he would hit me - I started screaming for help and he stopped and sulked off.
Also a bit sad as he was on the phone to his mum saying could he stay and I was shouting at him to just leave - he said "sorry I'm just going to beat my wife and hung up". She didn't ring to check I was ok - guess she thought it was jest :-(
This only happens once in a blue moon (under exceptional circumstances) and has never been this bad. He's never hit me but I feel really sore - my arms and back are killing me. I don't want to separate as most of the time we get on pretty well. I want him to see someone about his temper though. I think we should be able to have a flaming row without me ending up feeling like this. Would be very grateful for advice. Am most scared that when the children are bigger they'll experience his temper.

I've never not said something because I've never felt threatened before. Quite the reverse, I've knowingly antagonised him because I'm pissed off about whatever it is the row might be about or I've pursued it when I know he wants to drop the subject. I don't want to be walking on egg shells in future but, perhaps if he finds a way to put across what he thinks and I find a way of allowing him to do that, the aggression (or at least uncontrolled aggression or violence) wouldn't rear it's ugly head. I realise this may be unrealistic but I honestly think I couldn't end things now without always wondering what if we'd tried such and such.
I obviously realise there is a risk in doing so but I'm certain it would be me and not the children on the receiving end (at least until they're teenage and by then I'd like to think we'd know if whatever it is had worked) and that would be the end of it as I'd know it hadn't worked (yes I accept there's a small chance I'd be dead but I drive on the motorway every day when I'm working knowing there's a small chance I'll die). We're both planners and this is what we have come up with, I'm open to suggestions but I do want to give it a try - even if that involves a separation. Chastise me for my decision if you will but it's very much one I didn't choose to be faced with.

Thank you something, I have talked to my mother in law about having an escape plan. I don't think money would be a problem as all our family are nearby, I always keep some in my wallet as my dad has always said you never know when you might need it.
Does anyone know about different routes of seeking help and the effect they could have on a potential social services referral and whether employers have access to this?

"I've knowingly antagonised him because I'm pissed off about whatever it is the row might be about or I've pursued it when I know he wants to drop the subject."

You're already blaming yourself for his behaviour.

If a couple has a disagreement about something neither is responsible for the other losing it.

As an adult we all have the ability to walk away rather than be violent towards somebody.

Do not ever take the blame for his actions towards you.

Nobody is trying to chastise you. Far from it. You are surrounded by people that have been in and completely understand your position and are giving you the advice that they recieved or wish they had received in your position.

Once you speak to Women's aid and read the book, uou will hopefully start to realise that he doesn't "lose control" and that these are conscious decisions he's making to keep you in line. And at present it's working as you're allowing it.

OK two observations. The first is that you're now starting to blame yourself for his aggression by saying you antagonised him and that you need to find ways of expressing yourself that don't result in you being assaulted. That is fairly standard victim rationalisation, minimising what happened and taking responsibility for the assault on your shoulders. Just want you to understand that this is part of the pattern that traps women in abusive relationships. 'I'm a cow, therefore it's six of one and half a dozen of the other'.

The second is that you want to 'try everything' which suggests that either you think you can manage his behaviour or you think that a life without this man is worse than being assaulted or both. If nothing happens to him at this point and if his cosy life carries on as normal then he is not motivated. If the biggest change he sees is you trying to be less antagonistic then he'll feel vindicated. So do think hard about the message you're giving. Separation seems to be the minimum you should do.

I think you will find that nobody is chastising you for your decisions rather giving you the benefit of their own experiences and advice. There are few women who leave after the first time but plenty who in hindsight wish they had. It's not just the incidents of physical violence its the emotional trauma you end up living with daily because the line has been crossed and you know what he is capable of and will not know if and when it will happen again.

With respect I don't think his mother is the right person to talk to about an escape plan. Whatever she says, her first loyalty is to him.

If he was truly remorseful and wanted to change. He would actively be looking for the counselling or groups that violent partners should be attending. But he's not. You are.

Try and concentrate on yourself and your own well being. Counselling maybe, but definitely Women's aid.

Let him sort out his own help. I believe one of the following will happen 1) he won't bother, 2) he will, but will lie making it completely pointless.

He has no intentions of changing. Why would he? This is effective? You're already covering for him.

This must be so hard for you, that your own family is minimising this is heartbreaking.
I understand that you are clinging on to hope. Trust me, we all do.

"I don't want to be walking on egg shells in future but, perhaps if he finds a way to put across what he thinks and I find a way of allowing him to do that, the aggression (or at least uncontrolled aggression or violence) wouldn't rear it's ugly head. I realise this may be unrealistic but I honestly think I couldn't end things now without always wondering what if we'd tried such and such.
I obviously realise there is a risk in doing so but I'm certain it would be me and not the children on the receiving end (at least until they're teenage and by then I'd like to think we'd know if whatever it is had worked)"

Ah the sunken costs fallacy yet again. You forget though that the damage has already been done. And yes what you have written above is unrealistic, infact completely unrealistic. He now has the green light to be violent again and he will.

By the time your children are teenagers they would likely have seen many years of him being violent towards you and regard that as "normal". Its all very well and good for you to try and save this but what is he really doing here?. Answer - paying lip service to the problem. You continue to minimise and downplay this out of your own perceived fears (of social services, the effects of same on his career prospects), shame (any shame here should be all his) and embarrassment (again totally misplaced on your part).

All your words here are those of a women in a domestic violence relationship along with the proposed "solutions". He has not addressed his alcohol either but has chosen to blame everything else like you, long hours and his dyslexia!. Ha bloody ha.

His parents and yours have a vested interest in this like yourself and have downplayed the whole situation also. Families are rubbish to talk to in such situations as they are often over invested for their own reasons. You'd be better off talking to Womens Aid and writing on here further.

You're already blaming yourself for his behaviour and continue to try to do so as not to set him off. That did not work because his own drinking was a factor in him being violent towards you last time.

He is still going to this stag do as well isn't he?.

Why are you so afraid to call this what this really is - he is being violent towards you in your own home and you are being attacked. The home for your boys is no longer a sanctuary for them because their dad has decided for his own reasons to conduct his own private war against their mum.

Why are you also so afraid of any potential Social Services involvement; they are there to help families, not castigate them. They will become further involved with you personally though it you are shown to be putting your H before them by continuing to allow yourself to stay in a violent household. Your children won't thank you for staying with an inherently violent man either and could well grow up to become violent themselves within their own adult relationships.

And never write again that he is a wonderful father because such men do not hit their wives ever. Women usually write that comment as well when they really can say nothing at all positive about their man.

He hits you because he can and enjoys the dominance. He also enjoys the power and control. This is what this is all about at its heart.

Thank you. I'm not saying I was to blame for the violence, just that it takes 2 to have an argument. There is a line and he chose to cross it but maybe if he could express himself better with words it wouldn't be an issue. Gp opens in 5 mins then will speak to women's aid.
We would be safe with his mother though in an acute situation and she is nearby and has appropriate child paraphernalia.
I didn't really mean chastise but I guess you think I'm foolish. Feeling pretty sorry for myself so just go a little easy.

Attila 'ha bloody ha'? Apologies for being such a hilarious cliche.

OP - my dp has dyslexia, he is also 6'4" and has arms the size of my thighs. He has never hit/intimidated/dented my fridge with my body.
Your dp has done all that, and I'm appalled. If the glass in the back door had broken, you would not be here to tell us about it.

So, you are going to give it, what, another 10 years? Just to make sure you are doing everything? Until the dc are teenagres, and antagonise him themselves?

Re MIL - don't forget, she knew he was 'going to beat his wife' and she did nothing. She will continue to do nothing, or as good as, because a) she doesn't want the scandal to affect her and b) it's not her. She broke down when she thought it might be her upbringing of him that was a cause? It is, in fact, quite likely. She should know this, in her job.

You mum - also victim-blaming. Get someone in RL on your side OP. Womans Aid, SS, Police DV unit...

GPs are not experts in domestic violence. The response you get may vary wildly according to who you get.

At best it should include a Child Protection referral and your DH being told this is not an Anger Management problem as he has no problem managing his anger in front of people who are bigger than him. This is not a medical problem.

At worst he will get his Anger Management referral and then the energy will be on you supporting him in his attempt to change - so somehow he has become the victim and you have to do the work. When he fails, it isn't his fault as now he has the excuse of a medical condition and you didn't support him enough.

Going to the GP is for you to document your injuries. It has nothing to do with him. You need Women's Aid.

Nobody thinks you're foolish. Honestly. We just understand your position. You are in the midst of it. You are vulnerable, mentally, physically and emotionally exhausted. You clearly don't have any real life support and we are just trying to help you gain some clarity at a time that you are in need.

I believe that Atilla was laughing at the "dyslexia" excuse. Only because, we have all heard a million excuses for violence (that's the first time I've heard dyslexia though) - but what we all realise even if not at the time is that there is absolutely, unequivocally NO excuse for violence whatsoever.

"Thank you. I'm not saying I was to blame for the violence, just that it takes 2 to have an argument".

Yes but you do not hit him to get your own way. He cannot communicate at all effectively and his techniques re arguments are a) to shut you down and b) then assault you within your own home if his techniques with a) i.e. walking away from you as a means of also shutting you down do not work.

This is no way to live and I reckon too that his chat with the GP (even if he does attend an appointment) and referrals to an anger management person will not work. AM tends to work better for people who are angry at everybody, not just their partner. Your man takes out all his anger and violence solely against you. Domestic violence courses for men have an exceedingly low success rate.

Also the reasons for his behaviours are deeply rooted; a short course of say six sessions will not even begin to scratch the surface. Your man is many years work for even the most skilled of therapists and you cannot afford to hang around for years on end now in the hopes he will have an epiphany.

Abuse also is NOT related to "misunderstandings" or lack of communication. Its about having power and control over the other person.

Do talk to Womens Aid and get their perspective on it. All calls to them are confidential and no-one else will know that you have made such a call.

'it takes 2 to have an argument' - this was not 'an argument'. This was Domestic Violence!

'Better with words'? How will he address that? (Not possible, or probable that he will overcome his 'dyslexia' enough to have a huge vocabulary to 'express himself with') What other excuses does he have?

Dyslexia does not cause violence. He causes violence.

I was laughing bitterly at his dyslexia excuse; not at you.

How can he ever bring dyslexia into this as a possible reason for all this towards you. I know many dyslexic people also and it is an insult to them also to use that disability as a possible reason for his underlying violence; violence I may add that is only used against you his wife.

The only acceptable level of violence within a relationship is NONE.

"if he could express himself better with words "

Does he have trouble expressing himself, say, in a work environment? Has he ever been in trouble for being aggressive with colleagues? Received warnings for getting physical? Does he lose his temper more generally with other people he meets?

Or is it only you that gets to see this side of him?

He used enough force to dent the fridge and almost break the back door glass. That is scary. Imagine that kind of force used against your baby or other kids. And you can't say 'he would never do it to them' because you'd once have said he'd never do it to you.

He is not a wonderful father because he is an abuser.

Wonderful fathers do not abuse the mother of their children.

You know, when you look in the mirror, see the bruises...you KNOW what you have to do. In your tummy, you know.

You have to do something that is so very hard....you have to unravel your own conditioning. From what you have said about your mother's attitude, it is easy to see where this has come from for you. She blames you, you blame you.

You know in your tummy that this is wrong.

Social services need to be involved, to stop these attitudes percolating down to your precious babies.

Social services are not the enemy.........they are there to protect children when parents do not.

You know this.

How are you OP? Did you manage to speak to Women's aid?

Very few of us have left the first time (even though this was actually the second), but I hope you find it in yourself to call it a day if he ever even threats to hurt you again.

Hopefully, he won't. Fingers crossed.