Aggressive husband (sorry long story!)

[flowerpothead]

It has been a very bad week - we're trying to move house and it's all going terribly wrong and have the added stress of an 8 week old DS and just turned 2 DS. Last night I was in a foul mood after picking eldest up from nursery to find that again he had come home with awful awful nappy rash. I have been really struggling with doing bedtimes alone for the 2 of them and my H is usually home in time on Friday for bedtime. Yesterday he came home late, completely pissed after a big corporate event at Lords. We had a big row as I'm not happy about him going away for 2 nights on a stag do weekend after next and this brought it to a head. I know I was being a cow about it (saying I would email his friend and say he was only going for 1 night) but he totally flipped out.
He was holding me down on the sofa trying to get my phone off me then threw it forcefully onto the floor. He held me down so hard I have huge bruises on both arms and scratches. I told him I wanted him to go and stay at his mums (lives in same town). We were shouting but he then proceeded to push me hard against the fridge three times whilst still holding my wrists really hard then against the back door twice - I was terrified the glass would break. The fridge door is dented. Then I was cowering on the floor and I really thought he would hit me - I started screaming for help and he stopped and sulked off.
Also a bit sad as he was on the phone to his mum saying could he stay and I was shouting at him to just leave - he said "sorry I'm just going to beat my wife and hung up". She didn't ring to check I was ok - guess she thought it was jest :-(
This only happens once in a blue moon (under exceptional circumstances) and has never been this bad. He's never hit me but I feel really sore - my arms and back are killing me. I don't want to separate as most of the time we get on pretty well. I want him to see someone about his temper though. I think we should be able to have a flaming row without me ending up feeling like this. Would be very grateful for advice. Am most scared that when the children are bigger they'll experience his temper.

No I don't believe that abusers can change because generally they don't believe that they need to change. They will say sorry and do the remorse thing until you've rolled over enough and then it happens again but its your fault cause you know how they get when they are angry.

He won't change. If he does it certainly shouldn't be in progress around a baby. If he genuinely has a "temper" which he cannot control around anyone (strikes me it's only you that he assaults, which is not indicative of generalised anger management problems)- then the kids aren't safe. Especially the baby. A couple of angry shakes kill a baby.

I'm not saying he will kill your baby. Actually it seems much more likely he will have no trouble with the baby because his problem is with you not any "temper". Either way the kids are the ones that get hurt the most. Growing up with dv can severely affect children, especially in the first 2 years. They don't need to hear or see it. They probably do and will, because they're not deaf and these things are usually loud. Even a tiny baby will be stressed by the noise. They're wired to recognise happy and "sad" sounds and have stress responses, which lay chemical "routes" for the future of their little brains...

Please contact Women's Aid. Also, get whatever evidence you can. Visit the GP or speak to the Police. Perhaps the GP would be less scary for you? The Police would be better, though. Anyway, contacting one of the above about DV will mean you're entitled to legal aid if you go ahead with the split, in civil proceedings. They won't just take your word for it, they need it to have been reported. Please consider this- like other people have said, it will also help ensure your kids have appropriate access to their father. If his behaviour escalates and includes them (to whatever extent, emotional or physical abuse) you will regret not reporting it in 2 years time when you're sat at home crying worried about your kids after he is granted unsupervised or overnight contact.

Sorry to harp on about the Bancroft book, but he talks about what kind of help is required and it is quite specific and your H needs to have the right attitude for it to work. I think he estimates something like fewer than 20% of abusers are able to change. Maybe your H is one. You need to know the patterns.

I know this all feels really hard and big. And it isn't easy. It's a process. Get clear in your own mind what you think is happening - but from an informed position. You said earlier this happened once before because you cheated. You have accepted his behaviour as acceptable (you accepted it and married him) and accepted responsibility for his behaviour - only he is responsible for his behaviour. Only you know why. I have realised that my own parents' marriage was abusive and I don't have a clue what a healthy relationship looks like. But that has taken time. And I didn't leave immediately. I read the book, took some time apart, thought about it, and made my decision. But this was after years of psychological abuse, numerous violent episodes, marriage counselling, etc.

You know now that this isn't okay at all. I found the book really helpful, but the first step was telling people the truth - all of it - not just fragments. Abuse is part of a pattern. If you are upset with H going out and away is there more to that - does he pull his weight, help you when you need help, expect you to do everything? Only you know but there will be more. And if you are accepting your H violently assaulting you (which he has done, at least twice) then you are accepting other unacceptable behaviour.

Be strong, get through the day, take care of your babies, get the book, and tell people the truth -all of it -your mother, siblings, friends. You will be surprised at their reactions.

No I don't believe there is potential for change. Not that it matters but you don't mention how apologetic he wasfor his behaviour. You instead mention that he outright tells/jokes about it with his mother. This is not a heat of the moment temper. This is someone who knows exactly what they are doing.

Please call the police. Please call Women's aid and please read Lundy's book. I would bet everything I own on you reading all about your husband in there. It is a very easy read and will make everything become clearer.

You and your children deserve better. Your children shouldn't have to grow up in a world where they have towalk on egeggshells so as not to put Daddy in one of his moods. They need to grow up in a world where you have taught them that this treatment is absolutely not acceptable so they don't grow up thinking this is a normal relationship.

I know you say this is once in 10 years but I imagine there are other types of abuse going on that you've hinted at and will be explained for you in the book and by Women's aid.

Please call the police for yourself and for your children.

If you had causes this much emotional and physical damage to the person that you 'love'. Would you be able to fall fast asleep straight after? This man is a bully and you and your children deserve so much better

I'm sorry this has happened to you. But there are a font of women on here that can support you.

Keep safe OP

"I can see that it is abusive but id rather try and fix it than just punish it"

At least you see this is abuse. I mean this kindly but you cannot fix someone who does not want to be fixed. You cannot fix this and he will not get on board. You as his wife are too close to the situation and he does not want your "help" anyway. And no such men do not change; they feel entitled to do this to their victims. He has crossed that line and more than one; you allude to more violence before now too.

Fear of him keeps you within this as well; fear is one of the biggest factors in currently at least feeling unable to leave.

Your children are already growing up within a home where domestic violence is present; do not let that be the undercurrent of their childhood because they will become very damaged by their father's violence towards their mother. You have likely over time modified your own behaviours more so as to try not to set him off. Living on eggshells is also code to my mind for living in fear.

Did either of you grow up within a household where violence or emotional abuse was present?.

You cannot help your violent H but you can certainly help your own self here. Log all your injuries with the GP, read the Lundy Bancroft book and talk to Womens Aid on 0808 2000 247. I can understand why you are reluctant to report him to the police but really what other option is there now?.

The only acceptable level of violence within a relationship is NONE.

"Also a bit sad as he was on the phone to his mum saying could he stay and I was shouting at him to just leave - he said "sorry I'm just going to beat my wife and hung up". She didn't ring to check I was ok - guess she thought it was jest :-("

Your initial post is all very disturbing, this part in particular is very bad indeed. His mother will likely side with her son ultimately, her loyalties lie with him and not you.

Do not let this what has happened to you get pushed under the carpet again.

Just a thought - if you found it hard making an appointment with the GP, you could use your little one's nappy rash as a reason. And sometimes people write things down on paper to show the GP if it's difficult to say out loud.

Thank you all for your support. We have talked about it this morning. He has accepted he has a problem and is going to ring the GP on Monday and also tell his Mum.
I'll also go to the GP, as you say, so it's documented. Thank you Marrog, the nappy rash is a good idea
Will also have a read of the Bancroft book, I've checked - my local library has a copy. Hopefully he's the 20%.
I don't live in conscious fear but it will be good to know there will be a support network already aware of the problem if (when I hear you cry) it happens again so I can leave with their help.
No violence in my family and not, as far as I know in H's. His dad left when he was 3.

Do not minimise this now for your sake. He assaulted you within your own home; if he had done this in the street he would have been arrested.

What do you think the GP can or will do here?. This person may just give him the number of a DV service for perpatrators. This is all very well and good but your H has learnt all this from somewhere and its all very deeply rooted. A few sessions is not actually going to make a hill of beans difference, it can take years and years and you cannot afford to hang about in the hopes that he will somehow change.

I realise that you so desperately want him to be one of the supposed 20% but there is more than an 80% chance that he will just pay lip service to his underlying violence and simply carry on as he has done up till now. He feels entitled to do this and he also does this because he can. He does not want your help, he wants to punish you for his own failings.

I am pleased to see that you yourself will go to the GP under a guise as Marrog has suggested; this all needs to be documented. Take a photo of the fridge door as well.

Your H has not apologised to you nor importantly has accepted ANY responsibility for his actions has he?.

I daresay the GP will not be able to do much for him even if he does bother to ring the GP on Monday. I would put a crisp fiver on it that he will not do so in any event. And even if he does attend he will likely lie to this person as well, he's already lying to his own self here.

He has already told him mum as much and she did not respond either. This person cannot be at all relied on.

Do seriously consider talking all this through with Womens Aid. All calls are confidential and they won't tell anyone else.

He told his mum he was jsut going to 'beat his wife' and hung up? And she did nothing? That says that she ether assumed it was a joke () or that she thinks it's normal!!

Was she a victim of DV in her marriage? Did your H grow up seeing his dad abuse his mum?

Do you think there is any day, in any marriage, where either partner should be left cowering on the floor? Do you think cheating is an acceptable reason for violence?

Add to which, are you planning to sod off drinking for 2 nights next weekend, in the middle of moving house with two children (almost) under 2? No. So why is he?

There is a wider pattern of entitlement that suggests the violence is only part of the problem. You were punished for stepping out of line. If you avoid confrontation by not stepping out of line you've no real idea what the scope for violence in the last ten years is.

You should probably get some medical attention today if he pushed you hard enough to dent the fridge. Can you go to Out of Hours and get someone to check you over? This would also have the advantage of creating a medical record without the delay introduced by having to wait for the GP surgery to see you.

I really dont understand why a GP should be involved. Anger, temper and violence issues are not medical problems. They are, unfortunately, part of the spectrum of human behaviour and the criminal justice system exists to deal with them.

But I guess it makes you and him feel like he is doing something about it.

i think hes been very seriously abusive there. I think that it sounds like youre doing all the parenting on your own and are completely unsupported. You then flew off the handle at him and behaved unreasonably, but were at your wits end and hes responded with hurting you so much you were cowering on the floor. Thats serious stuff. If you dont want to leave, then i think you need to have a serious look at why not and what happens if this happens again?

How do you two normally communicate and relate to each other.

The other thing to do is to find a DV service in your area. They regularly work with women and children living with current risk and they can give you practical advice on what to do to cope with living with this man. You want to stay with him and are going to do so....

Also, they will be able to advise you on what to do if it goes wrong, if he does it again, if someone else hears and calls the police, your work then with social services etc.

The advice given here is already excellent. The women have really picked up on the issues around the dynamics and what actually went on....

A GP won't fix him, he won't change and you can't make him. Next time it will be worse. You need to call the police and Women's Aid - there is no other alternative. Sorry, but I agree - stop minimising. You need to protect yourself and your children. Would you send him to the doc if he did this to your kids - would it be acceptable then?

If you believe he can change OP, fair enough. However, he has zero incentive to change at the moment. The day after he assaults you in a most horrible way, what are the consequences for the whole family? For you it's clear.... you're now going to be very wary of a repeat performance, even if you claim that you are not actually afraid. For your DCs, even if they didn't witness the assault, they will know something's wrong and feel the change in atmosphere. They might sleep less well or be more clingy.

For him.... some idea of going to the GP. Where he will pay lipservice to the problem, minimise it, promise not to drink so much perhaps. Ultimately nothing happens. So he has no incentive.

Never tolerate ill-treatment. Let him get help but outside the family. Please take this seriously.

You mentioned him telling his mum. Can you tell your family and get support from them? What about friends? Also, the number for Women's Aid doesn't show up on your phone bill, by the way.

Sweetheart there might not be a support network for you next time because next time he could kill you.

Also please be sure many people who post here have been in your position. I appreciate we are all shouting police, WA, get him out etc - and yep, not all of us did that straight away. But you can guarantee those of us who didn't act immediately wish we had done sooner - I know I wasted years praying he would change - (he didn't, he got worse).

You have had an awful ordeal and a terrible shock. He has done this before, but of course he is nice in the other times - he will tell you he is sorry, won't do it again, it is your fault and you drove him to it, etc.. But it is his decision to do what he did - you now have a dent in your fridge - if a friend sees that will you tell them what happened to cause it or will you make up some story. Will you wear makeup and long sleeve tops to hide the bruises until they heal.

You know what he did is wrong - you know you need to escape. You just need to take the blinkers off maybe and lean on folk here or in real life and take some action.

I was battered by my husband. just the once.

I went to the GP the following morning. Everything was logged. I told him to leave. He did.

He went off and got therapy, and a year later we got back together. It seemed to have made a massive difference.

In the meantime, I had read every book ever written on the subject, at least it felt like that! I did the Freedom programme, I started my own therapy.

Everything seemed ok, but slowly, slowly, imperceptibly, the control started up again. Little things, tiny things, one offs, things that could be put down to stress, or other problems.....

The thing was, I knew, I knew where it was going to end. So I turfed him out again in March this year, as I didn't really want to be punched in the face in front of my kids again.

For a while there, I though he could be the exception to the rule.

He isn't.

Actually, really, NOTHING changed, not really.

The support services now in place at least here, are amazing. All triggered from the GP. All on record from that last time.

There is still help for him....but that is between him and those services. In the meantime, someone sane has to raise the kids.

That'll be me.

Don't be fooled by my tone...I am devastated, heartbroken, and spend a lot of time crying. But I can also see that this is part of a MUCH bigger picture on both sides...abuse going back for generations.

I intend to break the chain, because I love my children.

Hope that helps. xxxxx

With such a tiny baby, the health visitor is perhaps the first port of call?

xxx

OP, stay with this man in the full knowledge that he is an abuser, and that growing up in a home with this dynamic WILL damage your children, and will train them to be future victims or abusers as adults.

Staying makes you complicit in them suffering mental and emotional abuse. It's not fair that his abuse makes you complicit, but if you stay, you are choosing to allow them to be abused.

Just because he didn't hit you doesn't mean it's not serious domestic violence. Stuff like holding people down is considered a more serious red flag for specialists in DV than some levels of hitting, did you know that?

He won't change, and this will get worse. And it's not for YOU to fix. Apart fromthe fact that he won't stay fixed for long, if he had any genuine remorse or desire to change, he would be doing everything he could to do so, not letting you ring the Dr on his behalf, etc.

Is he going to his mums? You told him to leave, did he?

Going to the GP is for you to create a formal trail of evidence. Good that he goes because that basically means he had admitted it (assuming he does). Again it doesn't mean there's any remorse but it's useful legally. Of course it's important for you to get physically checked over too and the damage assessed. Take it easy, you much be sore!
It all changed nothing about your situation, though.

Get him out.
Teach your daughters that this isn't how daddys treat mummys; with your actions.

So he's accepted he has a problem and is going to the GP, now you're just supposed to carry on as if nothing happened?
Is he still planning on going away on the stag do in two weeks time?
I agree with others who have said he won't change. He's got away with it this time and it could be days, weeks, months or years but it will happen again.