Aggressive husband (sorry long story!)

[flowerpothead]

It has been a very bad week - we're trying to move house and it's all going terribly wrong and have the added stress of an 8 week old DS and just turned 2 DS. Last night I was in a foul mood after picking eldest up from nursery to find that again he had come home with awful awful nappy rash. I have been really struggling with doing bedtimes alone for the 2 of them and my H is usually home in time on Friday for bedtime. Yesterday he came home late, completely pissed after a big corporate event at Lords. We had a big row as I'm not happy about him going away for 2 nights on a stag do weekend after next and this brought it to a head. I know I was being a cow about it (saying I would email his friend and say he was only going for 1 night) but he totally flipped out.
He was holding me down on the sofa trying to get my phone off me then threw it forcefully onto the floor. He held me down so hard I have huge bruises on both arms and scratches. I told him I wanted him to go and stay at his mums (lives in same town). We were shouting but he then proceeded to push me hard against the fridge three times whilst still holding my wrists really hard then against the back door twice - I was terrified the glass would break. The fridge door is dented. Then I was cowering on the floor and I really thought he would hit me - I started screaming for help and he stopped and sulked off.
Also a bit sad as he was on the phone to his mum saying could he stay and I was shouting at him to just leave - he said "sorry I'm just going to beat my wife and hung up". She didn't ring to check I was ok - guess she thought it was jest :-(
This only happens once in a blue moon (under exceptional circumstances) and has never been this bad. He's never hit me but I feel really sore - my arms and back are killing me. I don't want to separate as most of the time we get on pretty well. I want him to see someone about his temper though. I think we should be able to have a flaming row without me ending up feeling like this. Would be very grateful for advice. Am most scared that when the children are bigger they'll experience his temper.

Exactly! My dd is on her second lot of counselling.

You really do not want that for your babies...really, really. Don't do it to them.

What I said about generations....this is where they internalise and normalise behaviours. Don't do that to them.

You Poor poor thing. It seems it all started with him going out with 'the lads' which is never nice when you are stuck home with the kids. I did have - dare I say - much more aggressive husband who did have 'psychotic intoxication' In other words, turned into monster with a beer. He was a high flyer int the City and as we had kids I put up with soo much. Broken arm, nose, etc. But in the morning he would always try and make it right. The end came to our marriage when I kept allowing him to get away with this behaviour and it became more violent as he grew more confident with getting away with it. His mother came once and I was holding my 2 year old and was sporting a massive black eye. She said I quote 'what did you say to him?' Something snapped in me to say enough was enough and ended the marriage. i also found out he was sleeping with 2 of my so called close friends and so it goes on. My message is this. Don't let him get away with this without showing full remorse and even attending relate or anger management. It is not fair on the kids. My son who is no 11 still remembers the fights when I thought he was too young and not aware. But he was. Hope this helps!

Poor you. No-one should ever lay a hand on you, and that he did should be the end of your marriage, for your children's sakes even if you cant leave for yourself.

I'm afraid he wont change, this is what he is and will always be. I bet you wont get an apology (not that it should make any difference anyway, there is no coming back from this) but he will say YOU made him cross, YOU were being unreasonable, YOU drove him to do it.

You are minimising what he has done and I get that, been there myself. It was only the once/twice, I was in a foul mood, he's never hit me, they were exceptional circumstances etc ad infinitum. However bad your mood, however stressed you are, its never ever OK for someone to hurt someone else. Please admit that to yourself.

He will do it again, that I can promise you. And it will be worse. He will go that little bit further.

I left my XH after several violent and one attempt at killing DD and I. The only regret I have is that I stayed after the first assault. I wish Mumsnet had existed then, I would have left sooner with some support. However much it scares you, ending a violent marriage is much less scary than living with a violent partner (because thats what he is).

Take care

Relate and anger management? No.

He needs YEARS of intense therapy to unravel his core beliefs. It isn't going to happen.

Lots of abusive people have personality disorders, caused by traumatic childhoods.

Relate can never get to the core of that. Ever.

He does not have an anger problem. He has much bigger problems than that. He believes he is entitled to physically assault his wife....and his mother appears to believe that too.

Children absorb this as normal. Traumatised children may well go on to behave in the same way.

Still reeling. No decisions made. Both sets of parents aware. Thanks for the advice. Think I'll ring women's aid tomorrow when I'm not quite so exhausted. Hopefully they will help me understand.

How are you doing physically, flowerpothead? You mentioned a lot of bruising and sore arms and back.

I used to work as a volunteer helping women who have experienced domestic violence. I myself left an abusive relationship when my dd was 6 months old.

I am frightened for you op. You are minimising a lot of his behaviour. I don't think he is going to change. He has no reason to - you've already told him by your actions that you are not going to leave.

Violence often escalates in relationships where there is pregnancy or very young children as things are stressful anyway and anger rises - you are also more vulnerable and an abuser is a bully and like all cowards they will pick on you at your lowest.

Ring womens aid. Speak to your health visitor.

Hi flower, hope you are okay.

His behaviour is not normal, but he chose to do it. He made a conscious decision to be aggressive and continue to be aggressive during the entire episode. He stated 'I am going to beat my wife' - proving it was a conscious decision. Pre meditated because you had the audacity to question his right to go on a stag night.

If he feels you stifle him, or if you make him unhappy, and he feels talking will not improve your relationship then he should leave you - that is the correct response. Not hurt you to make you change your line of thought.

When you cheated on him all those years ago the correct response would have been to leave you or forgive you. Instead he used it as an excuse to be violent to you. I am interested to know if he has brought up you cheating, all that time ago, in the last few years.

Is he violent at work? Towards his mum? Kids? In the pub? I guess not because he knows he would be reported.

He is an arsehole. Life is precious. Why share your precious life, time, future with someone like him?

Take care and seek all the advice you can.

In order to change it's usually the norm that somebody has insight into their condition, the effect it has on others and themselves. If you agree to chance it that he does accept there's a problem and receive help then carry on living in fear, treading on egg shells wondering when he's going to slip. Alcoholics, drug addicts etc all must accept that there is something wrong and they cannot continue . You need to accept that just because you cheated the one time died my deserve a beating neither does being in a strop. As far as I can see you need help. People have told you where to get it and some ponint you have to act.

Hi OP, I know its hard but he's already set up 'the fear factor'. Putting to one side his violence the emotional control has already started. How confident are you that if you object to something you can openly express this with him? Will you be wary and scared of his reaction? Are you happy to spend the rest of your life walking on eggshells wondering if something you have said or done may lead him to grabbing you, pinning you against walls or punching you?

I'm sorry to say this, but this is what your life has now become. The fear of him losing it, hurting you, you protecting your kids seeing and hearing him physically or verbally abusing you will always be there in your mind now - fear.

I hate to say this too, but you have shown him what you are prepared to accept, which is lip service. If you think that by telling people, GP and counselling will all help him, I can only speak from my experience, but it didn't and doesn't.

I'm sure like many of us who have been in your shoes, you won't heed advice to leave as you will believe you can fix things, be better and leaving his harder than staying. If like many of us you stay you will probably continue to be abused verbally, physically and emotionally for years to come before you leave but in the mean time, you will live with fear, sadness, scared and hurt as well as shame of covering bruises, losing teeth, cuts, burns etc etc.

You came on here for advice - kick him out - permanently. Good luck

Cross post Oneflu, as I was typing mine you were posting yours and we both said the same thing about the fear and walking on eggshells. OP this is what he did to you last night, this is your future not just the bruises that will fade. Different posters are saying the same thing to you.

Having a new baby and a toddler to deal with is a stressful time. He should be supporting you, not hurting you. It sounds as though alcohol is a big factor in his behaviour. You obviously love and want to forgive him. You need to get some support, Relate maybe? Try to make him understand what he would be losing if he can't change his behaviour. It is silly to suggest you up sticks and divorce when you have two little ones to look after. Could/would you
stay with parents/friends for a while? Do not be beaten down. You have given him two beautiful children. Always remember that and say strong. xxx

What part of leaving someone who beats you is "silly" because there are children? Women without children should leave but if you have kids you should stay? Weird logic.
I recognise that some people stay (and an even smaller number of people then have relationships without further abuse) but it's not remotely "silly" to divorce someone on the grounds that they've physically assaulted you.

Hopefully I've misunderstood PP, though.

I'm also massively unconvinced that relate have a role here. Relate offer relationship counselling. Post affairs, trust, communication, sex, etc. Domestic violence isn't indicative of a relationship problem- it's an individual problem. The problem of the person perpetrating. The OP going to relationship counselling with get DH would be pointless. It's not her problem and not something she is in any part responsible for. A good opportunity for her husband to make her feel responsible - though.

Individual counselling (for the OP) may be worthwhile though, sure. A DV or victim support charity would probably be better placed, though.

^It is silly to suggest you up sticks and divorce when you have two little ones to look after. Could/would you
stay with parents/friends for a while?^

Silly WTF?!, margot1962 is your advice not to divorce this man and it should OP who leaves and stay with parents and friends? How about kicking his cowardly, violent ass out of the house, or my suggestion would be reporting it to the police and let them do it and allow him a night in the cells to reflect that violence is unacceptable and a criminal offence.

How are you today, flowerpothead?

Just a side note. There are hundreds of women that have been in your position on Mumsnet and I guarantee that the one thing that they will unanimously say is "I wish I left earlier". I think it takes on average 7 attempts to leave an abusive partner. I'm lucky that I managed to do it the first time, but whilst life was immediately better and getting better everyday without him. The one thing thay still crosses my mind regularly is how I wasted 10 years of my life with this man when I could have potentially been with someone who actually loved me and showed me. He stole time from me. But that is one thing he will mosy definitely no longer get. My life is my own now and hard though it is with a baby and a toddler with no family support, every day is better than living with the resentment of living with that abusive bully.

It is silly to suggest you up sticks and divorce when you have two little ones to look after.

Jesus wept, I dont really know where to start with that piece of advice....

Thank you all again. We went to his parent's yesterday who we are both very close to. Whilst grandad looked after the boys we sat and had a very long chat. He is ashamed and emotional and scared of what his behaviour means for our/his future. His Mum is a deputy head and deals with these issues with parents at her school regularly. She was very balanced and I think incredibly shocked and distressed to hear my account of what happened. She wished she had acted differently (I text her a while after saying we were ok and she took me at my word) and broke down at her thought it could be her fault for his upbringing.
At this stage I don't want to leave. Although he's been aggressive to me before, this is the first time I've felt at risk and actually been hurt. He is going to ring the Gp when they open and get an appointment ASAP. We're both v concerned about triggering a social services referral and whether that would affect his career (I will discuss this with women's aid tomorrow as difficult to ascertain) upon which we depend on heavily. I've found it quite difficult to find advice online as to what the perpetrator should do as opposed to the victim (for want of better words).
I have taken photos of my arms.
He is going to tell the Gp that he has lost control on a few occasions and that it has reached an unacceptable level - I think we're worried that if he tells the Gp about the violence they will automatically trigger a social services referral. He will divulge all the gory details to anger management counsellor (or similar).
I think I need to hear it from a professional. I'm certain that myself and the boys are not at threat currently. I desperately want this to work.
I know you'll probably think I'm mad but this is a man I've loved since the first day we met and who is a wonderful father (although works long hours which takes it's toll).
We wondered if his dyslexia might be a factor - he finds it very difficult to find the right words and to chip in on group discussions etc. I know - no excuses - but maybe could be looked at in hopefully having better arguments in future. Often I get most frustrated as he just doesn't want to fully discuss stuff and I feel the need to 'have it out'.
My mum used it as an opportunity to tell me not to go on at him so much. Thanks mum. I'm staying with them for a few days this week so we have some space to think (beggars can't be choosers!)
I'll let you know how I get on speaking to women's aid. Thank you again.

"he's been aggressive to me before", "he has lost control on a few occasions". So, we're not really talking a on-off here, are we? Now stop and think of the times you've NOT said something you wanted to say or NOT done something you wanted to do because you didn't want to upset him. Or the times you've backed down or appeased him when he got angry. I'll bet you can come up with quite a few. Stifling yourself and living in fear of the 'other shoe dropping' is just another form of bullying (which is abuse).

I think you need to take a look at your whole relationship dynamic. You may find that you've been putting up with a lot more than you realize. The fact that he 'hasn't hit me' means nothing when you are living on eggshells to avoid it.

He doesn't "lose control" - he knows exactly what he's done. You are worried about Social Services involvement. The people who are in place to make sure that children are safe and healthy - I can certainly see why he wouldn't want that.

And I can assure you, he doesn't hit you because he has dyslexia!!!!!!

I really hope you are having honest with Women's aid when you talk to them and listen to them with open ears, for your children's sake and your own.

I really urge you to read Lundy Bancrofts book.

And however lovely his mother might be, she is not objective. Someone objective that heard of your situation would tell you to get out, not visit the GP.

I'm still not clear what you think the GP is going to do?

I know how hard this is for you OP. Please just think of yourself and your dc and stay safe.

I hope you

What has dyslexia got to do with it? Seriously, he came home and didn't like what you said so became violent with you. It doesn't matter what his reasons were because there is no excuse. I bet you don't slap him about when he says or does something you don't like. I would also bet he doesn't do this with his friends, family or anyone else for that matter.

For what its worth my exh had a counselor for his violence, who he'd seen a number of times. I only spoke to her once when she phoned to find out where he was for his appointment and I told her with the police after another assault on me.

What a surprise - his mum wants to avoid social services involvement and yours thinks you probably badger him too much. Families have a vested interest in the status quo - you need to be telling other people. You've basically agreed to him playing it down with the GP. You were going to go yourself in order to have it documented, I'm guessing you're backing away from that now?

He appears to be finding any number of things to blame - working long hours, his dyslexia. I wonder why he hasn't blamed the alcohol? (Because then he might have to address his use of it). Earlier in the weekend he accepted he has a problem - now .. less so? (His problem has a cause which he can't control)

I bet he's still going to that stag do, isn't he?

And he is not a wonderful father. A wonderful father does not abuse their mother. He does not display behaviour to their mother that they will likely go on to copy (as obviously this is what they believe a normal healthy relationship is) and end up in awful relationships themselves.

Flowerpot head.....
Try and find out about the DVIP course....he could do that, if he is that interested in changing....
Otherwise this is going to happen again.
You are not wanting to consider that right now.
Yet.....
Keep an eye on your situation regarding friends to run to and money just in case you need to flee.
The idea is not to exacerbate things if he kicks off, but to get to safety quickly.
This is now the sort of marriage you have x one where you can talk to your partner because you wonder if he might hit you because he doesn't like what you're saying.