Do men despise women.

[Loomineer]

On another thread read comments about women not realising how much men despise them. It got me thinking how in my relationships I've looked back and thought god. They really despised me.

My best friend is in a relationship where to me her dp treats her like he despises her.

I am not a man hater by any means. I just wondered what other people thought.

twinklestein,

Yes, childcare is expensive. Most child minders are women. (Do you think that they have been forced into that career by men?) Surely you don't think they should be paid less?

You seem happy to accept that men "like to be dominant" Do you accept that that dominant behaviour may be due to the fact that men, typically, exhibit more aggressive behaviours than women? Why do you think they might exhibit more aggressive behaviours? Do you think it may have something to do with biology ie. hormones and genetics?

I do actually know quite a bit of history. I'm just wondering what the significance of the 4000 years you are quoting is because I've seen different time frames quoted by other feminists.

Re discrimination - I think you'll find that I said males of other species are unlikely to be discriminating due to 'social conditioning'. Do you think they do? Or do you think it is exclusive to humans?

I take it you're not a royalist then

"Do you think all ancient cultures subjugated women? You may need to check your historical facts there."

The key word there is "all". Should I take it that you accept that not all ancient cultures subjugated women? That, in fact, there were some matriarchal societies?

"You think biology got men into positions of power? "

I was actually asking you how you think men got into positions of power. I, personally, do think that biology plays a part though, yes. Do you disagree?

I don't agree with the idea that men despise women either individually or as a class btw. I think those kinds of statements inevitably end up in these kinds of debates. They are inflammatory and provoke people to react with disgust towards those making them and as a consequence they alienate people from the idea of equality or the current inequalities.

Perhaps you should actually read my posts Offred, as i've just said to Melissa, i have no objection to those in genuine need getting help but adopting the Swedish system which would mean huge subsidies at enormous cost is wrong.

Offred, you, too seem to be resenting the fact that you are a woman and the only sex capable of bearing children. There isn't really much we can do about that... yet! :)

A class with a privilege is, by it's nature as a privileged class, dominant. This has already been discussed bumbley. If people wanted to be tricksy surely they could tie you up by saying your identification of men as a class as dominant over women is an acceptance of male privilege's existence.

So you want to decide who is in need and who isn't? Basically which women deserve freedom of choice and which don't?

I have read your posts btw. You are saying you don't believe the costs of a comprehensive childcare programme in order to free women from childcare burdens which are being imposed on them by their male partners is justified. I am saying that implies you don't really think women being oppressed by the imposition of childcare (and housework) on them by male partners and a patriarchal society is a very important issue.

"its better the childreb being in funded childcare so the woman can make something of themselves." what's wrong with being a mother? It sounds like you think it is is a bit worthless.

Offred "Not sure there is anything anyone can say to change your mind as you've clearly extrapolated your circumstances across the whole of society and set them in concrete."

Haven't you done the same?

It's not bearing children that anyone is resenting btw. As has been pointed out numerous times bumbley women have to bear the children and men can't breast feed (although the majority of babies are not being breastfed) this is not the same as child rearing. A lot of women, if freed entirely from responsibility for rearing the baby, could return to work a couple of days after giving birth, obviously some may not be able to return for several weeks but this is true of any staff who have a medical complaint. There is no biological reason which dictates that women are required to actually rear the child. If you wanted to deny the existence of formula you could argue women were required for feeding but not necessarily even the baby's own mother for that.

I am a mother, a fantastic one but thats just one aspect of me. My mum had a career and was a brilliant mother and everyday I try to be just like her as she wasnt just a mum like everyone elses mum. Its made me a hard worker and dedicated and I want the same for all my dds if possible.

I dont care what everyone else does but this is how my family is and I would never ever consider staying at home.

Er no, because I can conceive of situations which are different than my own. You will notice I am not denying that you or other posters have experienced what you have. You and other posters are basically repetitively arguing "well this is my experience, I don't believe others can't just do it like me"

Offred, that post was directed at Twinkle. She was the one who said that men "liked to be dominant". I have already challenged her on making that generalisation but she is standing by it. :) I'm asking if she thinks that dominance/aggressiveness might have something to do with biology. Do you think it does?

No, i won't decide, i haven't the time.

How do you know childcare burdens are imposed by male partners? My partner was certainly in a minority among people i know, to quickly return to work. Most women i know were only to happy to take the time off work and don't see childcare as a burden and some took the decision not to return to work. I think it is you that is extrapolating your experiences.

You really think "a lot" of women could have returned to work after a couple of days? I certainly couldn't have and I'm not in an overly physical job and I had normal deliveries! The thing is, many women want to stay home and raise their children. They don't want to return to work and leave someone else to raise their child and I don't think that is because they have been 'socially conditioned' to think that.

"well this is my experience, I don't believe others can't just do it like me"

I don't think I've argued that anywhere.

I agree about 70% + would chose to stay at home so it wouldnt even be a lot of money to fund. I dont believe many women are very ambitious so I dont see the reason not to fund it.

bumbley, i think hormones or genetics do make men incredibly competitive, some might see this as a desire to dominate but it's certainly not directed just at women and it's not a conscious decision to oppress women or some kind of conspiracy.

Really Lurker do you think anyone is actually arguing for what you've jst said in your post? Just who are you arguing with ?

lurker, I agree with you.

I explained the logic of that statement already lurker if you'd like to read.

Not you 7days!

I think that much of this child rearing stuff IS biological but that dosnt mean we can't juggle this with a career.

Based on?

Superstar apart from the obvious, which bits of childrearing do you believe are biological?

I am a man. Whilst I do not despise women, I think that there are many men who do, or at least still have attitudes more prevalent in the 1970s, or just see women for sex and little else.