Do men despise women.

[Loomineer]

On another thread read comments about women not realising how much men despise them. It got me thinking how in my relationships I've looked back and thought god. They really despised me.

My best friend is in a relationship where to me her dp treats her like he despises her.

I am not a man hater by any means. I just wondered what other people thought.

I have no interest in cost analyses, that seems to be your thing.

Or rather...

You were the one who came up with the figures. Is that gross or net, surely your source was explicit?

No, it's not my thing but as the UK already spends more of its GDP on government support to families than any OECD country except Denmark and France i think it's unlikely during times of austerity the government would commit to spending £2.2bn on childcare.

It was in an article by Donna Ferguson published in the guardian and no, i haven't fact checked her article. But if you want to be pedantic you could ask her yourself.

www.theguardian.com/money/2014/may/31/costs-childcare-britain-sweden-compare

You dont have to go off work. I have done two 2 week maternitys twice and would go back sooner if allowed. Iam married and dh is just as much a parent as me so its not at all strange him doing all the baby raising. Its his baby after all! There is nothing to stop all women doing this if they wish.

Err apart from your male partner who hasn't given birth and is not incapacitated at all and may not allow you to do this.

I would not physically have been able to work for the last 6 weeks of my last pg as was on bed rest and I bled after for 6 months quite heavily and was breast feeding twins. My xh exploited this incapacity to firmly establish that I belonged in the home. He's a nice guy like Cailin spoke about earlier, he looked at how awful it was for me and he thought "fuck that" and he said to me "I don't know how you do it, you are amazing, I couldn't" on his way out of the door.

Just how are women meant to return to work without their male partner's support? Perhaps some women in very high earning positions or with independent means can as they could pay for childcare in the face of an obstructive partner. There is not a single man facing this issue after a baby purely because he is not incapacitated, even for a second.

Blah blah blah... The austerity is ideological. Anyway you're basically justifying enslaving women because you don't think it's an important enough issue to justify the possible costs.

Oh and; who's fault is it childcare is expensive? Or jobs that fit around your family life are hared to come by?

Whose fault is it childcare and family friendly jobs are women's issues?

He obviously not a nice guy if he thinks women should be in the home. Dh completely slates men like this and rightly so.

Sweden spend more on childcare than on defence, it depends what you think is important.

Ha ha ha! I'm justifying enslaving women? By discussing the high cost of childcare! Yeah, i'm up there with Stalin and Mao!

When my partner returned to work we had to pay for childcare just like everyone else and we shared the cost, we made sacrifices, we didn't ask anyone else to pay and no, she isn't enslaved! Why can't everyone do that?

A very good point Twinklestein i happen to think childcare is more important than nuclear weapons you can't and won't use. Unfortunately i'm in a minority.

Do men despise women? In some cases yes. Just caught one out on page 3 of this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2134175-Should-I-lose-weight-for-my-husband?pg=3

He doesn't think women should be in the home. He just saw what was happening to me and made sure it wouldn't happen to him because he thought it looked grim. He was a classics example of what Cailin pointed out before of a man who believes in gender equality, supports the fight for gender equality, treats women as equals UNTIL it becomes a choice between him and a woman.

I don't think it is anything at all to do with being nice or not. It's about self preservation.

But that's another tactic like the 'sorry but you'll just have to suck it up because it'd cost important people more than can be justified' basically 'ah! I see, you just weren't as good at picking the right man as me! Stupid girl!'

The kind of men you and cailin are discussing are not in the slightest non sexist men and it is deluded to think they are as normal non sexist men do not think like that.

I belive in 100% free childcare from birth and I would definitely use it. Im childcares biggest fan and my children have always been in.

I'm justifying enslaving women? By discussing the high cost of childcare!

Err yes, you are saying childcare is an unjustifiable cost to the state. It implies you are not all that uncomfortable about the measurable domestic enslavement of women in current society.

why can't everyone do that? not many people can afford childcare even with budgeting. Many people can barely afford food.

Darkest what a delightful fellow!

This is why its only easier to carry on in your career in the baby years if you are poor or rich if you are in between you cant do it and thats why childcare should be funded for all.

I happen to agree with the previously mentioned point that everyone is sexist and racist (and prejudiced in other ways and competitive) as these are normal and (certainly have been at times) useful devices for human survival. It's being aware of your prejudices that is important.

I wouldn't infer therefore that a man who sought to preserve his privilege was motivated by sexism rather than self preservation.

Offred, it's very unfortunate that some people can't afford food but that's not my fault, we both work very hard, long hours and have paid for everything we have ourselves, we aren't privileged, we're from working class backgrounds. We thought long and hard before deciding to have a child and wouldn't have had one if we couldn't have afforded it.

I don't see how suggesting people pay their own way in life is enslaving women.

Although some certainly are motivated by sexism or misogyny.

I dont agree with that as surely its better the childreb being in funded childcare so the woman can make something of themselves. I owe everything to funded childcare and I will be eternally grateful to live in this country and have had that option.

Melissa, i'm glad you have benefited from funded childcare, i have no objection to those who are really in need getting a little help, i just think expecting taxpayers to lavish billions is a bit much.

If you don't see it then you don't see it. Not sure there is anything anyone can say to change your mind as you've clearly extrapolated your circumstances across the whole of society and set them in concrete.

Bit expecting women to labour for free is not a bit much to expect of half the population?