I totally dislike my daughter (long and ranty)

[ohthatsokthen]

DD now 21. Backstory she has been problematic since 13. Started with truancy, smoking etc. Then absconded from school and was found unconscious on the school field with an empty bottle of vodka. We then discovered she was bulimic and self harming. Many trips to the Drs later we were referred to PCAHMS for counselling. There are no known issues in our family, me and her dad still together, he has been a fantastic dad and we have both tried our best to support and encourage her. In her words "you are epic parents and I had a lovely childhood, I don't know why I do these things". Signed off from PCAHMS as deemed "helped". Over the next few years she went to college and got a part time job. She was then sent home from work as she was drunk, this continued and escalated until she was drinking all day and being abusive. I met with her work who offered to help - her words "all teenagers drink", took her to the drs "my mum is imagining it all, I am fine". To cut a long story short, the drinking escalated and she became threatening and violent and I snapped (probably not the best thing to do) and threw her out. We had a number of police visits due to threats and her trying to kick the door in. Police told me I was a victim of dv. She found a room, we paid the rent and deposit for 6 months. She got thrown out from that room because she kicked off and started smashing the place up. At this point I cut contact as she was making me ill with the stress. She moved in with her boyfriend, and his junkie father and moved onto drugs (speed, crack), got raped by her drug dealer. I can't even talk about that. She moved into a nice room, to get away and we paid the deposit. All this time still drinking but miraculously because of her manager she clung on to her job. She was then given notice on her room as the ll was getting married so she went off on a rare one and her threw her out that night. In desperation, the next day I found her a bedsit albeit in a halfway house type place, paid the deposit and the rent. She is still there. 5 months ago she quit drinking, we were so proud of her. I told her that she needed to get help as she obviously has issues (she says she wants to feel incredible all the time and can't bear the mundane day to day life). It transpires that although she isn't drinking the drug use has escalated, to the point she owes dealers. She came round last night and was vile, screaming and shouting at me. Told me all of this was her fault, she hated her life, we should take her back home and she would stop. I forced her to take the bedsit, if I hadn't she wouldn't be doing drugs. She hates her job, nobody has offered her a promotion and she's been there 3 years. I was very calm and told her, nobody had done this to her but herself and I wasn't going to discuss it anymore as she never listened (we asked her to attend Narcotics anonymous and the drs - she won't because they tell her things she doesn't want to hear). She was hateful, vicious and mean. I have got to the point where I totally dislike her and my husband says he despises her and can't be in her company. Sometimes I wish she was dead so that we didn't have to live like this and she wasn't suffering anymore. dh retires next year and we are going to sell up and move away (plan was to buy a house with annexe for dd if she got clean but that is never going to happen). All we wanted for her was to be happy, and either do uni/travel/or a job she liked. Whilst we are not perfect parents (who is) we have always encouraged and supported her and tried to do what we think is best. I am now at the point where I think - I've done everything I can, you are an adult and its up to you. I think this stems from growing up with both parents as alcoholics. I know she is a tortured soul but I can't help someone who refuses to take responsibility and help herself. Sorry for the essay, rant over - just wanted to get it off my chest!!! Thanks if you managed to read to the end

Iowna mental health issues often (usually?) don't appear in earlier childhood. Late teens to early twenties is typical- 13 is young for manifestation. Before that they are 'normal'.

If we are talking serious mental health, it is stand alone- no family history or disfunction required, although risk of inheriting it from your mentally ill parent in 1:10.

You can not even diagnose PD before the age of 18 ( hence the 'emerging' PD mentioned above).

Ohthat -the accepted advice is to let a drug/ alcohol addict hit rock bottom, as it needs to happen before they can change. I have read it on here many times.
I don't quite understand how you get the advice you have on this thread?
You can only do so much. When you have done it, you must walk away, so you don't perish as well. This process is unbelievably painful, and to get there with a child the most painful of all. But there comes a time when you do, and you realise you can not help even if you would kill yourself to make their life better- it wouldn't change anything.

No, not necessarily, re having mental health issues before turning 13. Puberty/adolescence can be a trigger.

It sounds horrendous

Wrt the counselling. I have a severely disabled son & had always resisted counselling as I didn't need it (I didn't, have always functioned perfectly well, am fine, no past issues). Anyway I was forced to have some in order to have ds1 access a learning programme I wanted him to access. I was very grumbly about it. It was only 6 sessions & it ended up being probably the most useful thing I ever did. We talked more about my MIL & other people rather than me or ds1 but it was transformational & 6 years later I still think about it. The anger I didn't even know I had had gone. So yes I'd recommend trying it. It has to be with the right person (mine was very experienced at working with families dealing with my son's disability), but it doesn't have to be hours & hours or terribly intense to be effective. It did change the way I interact with ds1 for the better as well even though we didn't focus on that (just because it changed how I saw his disability in relation to our family/him).

Just wanted to say that because you sound like I did, but I was wrong. I think sometimes when you are dealing with and coping well with something difficult for years you don't notice the changes you make or the strategies you use & it can ime be helpful to reflect on those. Post counselling I still coped as I always had, but I was more relaxed about other people. I used to want them to know what it was like (especially any friends or family who were being disappointing in their understanding of how hard it was ) but afterwards I was able to let that go. It sounds minor (& is) but had a very positive effect.

So I understand your reluctance but would advise giving it a go.

I can't see that you can do much about your dd given the mess she is in. Not directly & it sounds as if you have been trying to access professional support for years. As others have said it needs to come from her now (whatever the original reasons for her downwards spiral). :(

Oh just up be clear I'm not recommending counselling as a magic bullet or something that will fix your dd. just because you sound very like me, & those 6 sessions with the right person helped me understand the situation we were in better. She's seen it all before - it would not have worked with someone who hadn't because our experience is far from the norm. It made me happier & stopped me having to separate quite so much. I'm suggesting it for you though, not as a way to fix your dd.

She is still young & may well get herself together (she sounds like she wants to). I hope she manages it. I do agree that at some stage you have to draw a line under it & say it's enough for you & you have reached your limit. I also think you should be able to do that without approval (that's what counselling did for me - prior to it I would have wanted people to understand why we were doing that, it would have been important to me, afterwards I wouldn't care less whether people - especially those with no experience - understood).

MH issues can also start earlier if it is as a result of something like abuse eg some behavioural or personality disorders so psychological rather than psychiatric.

It also differs between countries. The US will diagnose bipolar in children but in the UK and the Netherlands it will not be diagnosed until over the age of 18. I was told this is because they want to know it is not to do with the hormones in teenagers.

OP, does your DD know that you plan to move without leaving an address or phone number? In other words, is she aware that this is the last birthday gift she will be giving you? (Not trying to upset you, just thinking very much of her).

Don't think the OP is coming back- maybe due to some of the posts.

Hope she went and got some counselling.

Well, it's an emotive subject and people are allowed to disagree.

Wherever has this blind faith that counselling will right all the wrongs in the world come from?

Counselling will allow the OP to look at her past and heal herself from the hurting her suffered in her family as a child. Having one alcoholic as a parent is pretty traumatic, never mind both. She claims she is ok and she is healed I DOUBT IT and I think she is used to cut people loose when they don't live up to her expectation as a defensive mechanism and her daughter picked up on it.

Had she got help for her traumatised soul when her daughter problems started years ago, she would have more tools to deal with her daughter behaviour, including knowing when and how to help instead of just enabling the daughter's destructive behaviour.

Her husband also doesn't know how to deal with it all. He also would benefit from some counselling if nothing else as a parent of a person with addiction issues and MH.

OP says she tried therapy and Al_anon but it 'wasn't for her'...
I just think that looking into her OWN traumas and behaviour would be to painful so it easy to live in denial, pass on the blame and move far away.
I wish her lucky but above all I wish her daughter to find peace and people who can truly understand her sickness, help her properly and love her as she deserves.

Only my opinion.

I wonder if the OP has cut and run from this thread when it didn't measure up to what she wanted?

I cannot see what is to be gained my moving and presumably not telling the DD where her parents are. it's one thing to step back and be hands off, but another to cut contact and move away- you only take your troubles with you. They won't disappear. the day to day aggro might stop but it will be replaced with something else.

I just cannot see why the OP would want to waste all the good she has clearly done so far by abandoning her DD in this way. I don't think she ought to carry on funding her addictions which in effect is what she has done by providing housing etc instead of letting her reach the bottom and find a way up. But there is - to my mind- a middle way between that type of support and cutting contact- assume the DD will not be given an address so sorry if this is barking up the wrong tree.

In my opinion, I think that the OP projects her parents on to her daughter and this is the reason why she wants to run away and cut her loose. Also why she dislikes her daughter so much.
I know her daughter has been going through an awful time and made OP suffers in the process, but for the OP to give money to her daughter instead of finding real ways to help her is a way to feel better within herself and keep her daughter as far as possible...as she wouldn't want to face up her memories/childhood problems etc.

I suspect that the OP is planning to do exactly what she did when protecting herself from her parents' harm. She's going to shut down and simply not think about it again. There was a huge resistance to thinking deeply in her posting. She's doesn't sound like a woman who would lie awake at night thinking silly thoughts. But many of the things she reported her DD as having said simply does not match up with someone who is beyond hope or unadulterated nastiness. But I think she needs to see it that way in order to survive now. I don't know what I'd be driven to do in her position...but I have gone through a lot in my life and so have many others. Love does sometimes choose to endure. Somewhere in the UK there is a 21 year old rape survivor struggling with undiagnosed and untreated mental illness. She is struggling to think of a birthday present that is quite special enough for her 'epic' mum, whom she clearly loves as well as she is able to. Perhaps you do need to let a drug addict hit bottom (whatever that is) but taking the last defence away from that girl who is intensely vulnerable for many reasons that aren't her fault? I don't know. I just don't know. I wonder if the OP would be surprised to be a quadriplegic or a schizophrenic for a day, just to find out what life is like when there is no option to bail.

After eight years, after threats of extreme physical violence, worried that her front door won't survive its next kicking, I expect the idea of stopping the day-to-day aggro is an extremely appealing one. I can see a lot to be gained. I don't know if it's the right course of action - genuinely do not know, and I feel for the daughter too - but I can see why the OP wants to do it. Abuse is still abuse when it comes from your 21 year old child. The OP's not wrong or broken for wanting to be safe from it. She's also said that her DD will always have a way to contact them and that they will always be willing to help if she will accept the help.

I think the 8 years of nightmare could be avoided or minimised if the OP were getting appropriate help for HERSELF too.

The kind of perfectionism you describe can also be characteristic of girls with Aspergers/HFA, and girls with those conditions are sometimes (mis)diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

I can see why the OP has not returned to her thread.

Many of you think that she is taking the easy option. There is no easy option. She has tried her best and now she needs some peace and a bit of compassion.

How many tools do you think counselling offers, exactly? I have had bucketloads of it, by the way, and it wouldn't magic me up the skills to cope with what the OP has dealt with. It can help with some things, sometimes. It does not cure all. It does not make us perfect parents who can handle whatever our children throw at us.

chalkcircle: I can see why the OP wants to leave too. (On a practical note, I can't see why she hasn't taken steps to reinforce the door). She will leave an email address but there's no way of knowing if someone who has been left to hit rock bottom will have the means to use that. Also, her DD seems to be suffering from a perfect storm including abuse and mental illness - saying help is there if she's able to kick her habit is tantamount to saying it's not there at all. I'm not suggesting the OP should fund her lifestyle or suffer violence. But there's a heck of a gap between doing so and clearing off altogether. At university, I didn't have any peers who lacked parental support and that safety net was badly needed, despite these being pretty balanced young adults. The OP knows that her DD is likely to die, perhaps much more quickly than she might do without some form of support. At the very least, the girl needs an advocate in accessing psychiatric help. Without having lived the situation, I honestly can only speculate, but I'm not sure that the OP is necessarily making a morally neutral choice by absenting herself from the situation, given the grief and despair her child is likely to feel. She is already emotionally detached, saying that her DD has already died and she can see the advantages of her dying. Well, her DD is still alive and the OP has no business to write off someone who is capable of love and able to make some of the anguished, insightful statements she has made to her mother. The OP doesn't like her and doesn't have a use for a DD like this, especially when it's interfering with her retirement. Many parents visiting their disabled and mentally ill children might say they feel the same way, deep down, but the difference is they are still there, staying involved in some form or other. Accepting birthday gifts, for instance. I get the impression that the next involvement OP plans to have is arranging a funeral.

bruins What about the OP's daughter? Do we live in a society where we're not allowed to disagree with vulnerable members of society being called demonic and disowned? I don't think anyone has spoken harshly to the OP but many have disagreed and urged her to try various forms of help. Compassionately. Unfortunately, the only acceptable response seemed to be to reassure her that she was doing the right thing. I think we all twigged early on that she required no reassurance from anyone else!

areyoumymother
She doesn't sound like a woman who would lie awake at night thinking silly thoughts
What does that mean? She sounds to me like someone who has spent many, many sleepless nights.

Bruins: I shall answer your question despite your not answering mine. It means that the OP seems like a person who decides what to do and does it. Once on that course, she'll look neither to left nor right and will not stay up worrying about it. Pragmatic.

'She refuses to go saying it is a waste if time, she doesn't have a problem'

That sounds familiar! She's not that dissimilar to you, then, OP...

I think we all get it ,or most do, that the situation is hell on earth, that you are thoroughly exhausted to the core and have perhaps shut down because you can't take any more. I think the general disquiet in some posters is in response to your firm decision that you won't take any more rather than you can't .

I don't think the situation is black and white (is any?): she is an addict, certainly - and it is appropriate to 'leave' an addict; but there are also separate, and clear, MH issues running around making the picture more complex - also decidedly not appropriate to 'leave' someone with MH problems, especially someone so obviously vulnerable and needy. She is also traumatised as she is a victim if rape, which is yet another strand to this awful situation. I appreciate this takes the wisdom of Solomon to sort out, there are no easy answers here. To that end, to have decided to address only one aspect of the complex problems she faces by choosing to leave her, wash your hands of her, doesn't appear to address the other issues she is facing. To then go on to say you are at peace, happy and positive about your choice is bound to alarm, even if others have no experience of the gruelling horror you have all battled with. There is something not right about it OP.

I could suggest that cutting her off may not bring you peace. I have had to cut off my daughter and the pain of that is immense and, no, I don't have peace but grinding heartache and perpetual sorrow and longing, which drains all peace. Your husband may be repulsed (you too?) by her, and it is understandable that you have been tested to breaking point and beyond; but there is something curiously detached about the way you are both choosing to bail out, your husband forcefully, as though this has nothing to do with you. In a very real sense it has everything to do with you, though you refuse to accept that, 'saying it is a waste of time and you don't have a problem'. In very crucial ways - though not all - this is your problem as much as it is hers - though you refuse to see that because you have shut and bolted the door to the obvious link. Al-anon 'wasn't for you' in the same way as you are not the 'type' for counselling. Al-anon IS for you, because you have a close relative who is an alcoholic, whether you like it (al-anon OR alcoholism) or not.

I have also had crap, irritating and patronising counsellors, but not necessarily because they were crap, irritating or patronising. You may choose to see dd as 'bad' and you 'good' (because you have coped and she has not?), and this may be because you are exhausted and want to put it in boxes and draw a line under it (as you did with your parents). To not see it as the solomon's choice it is perhaps illustrates a default denial mechanism you are used to employing when things get too much and unbearable. Which counselling would address.

Ime, problem themes we vehemently refuse to address have an uncanny way of reappearing closer and closer to home, demanding our attention, rrfusing to be silenced. You are refusing it again. If you had stayed at al-anon you would have learnt effective skills to address your daughter's problem in a safe, effective and boundaried way for you all. As it is you have enabled her by repeatedly mopping her up and saving her, which shows your lack of effective knowledge. Now you are depleted and want out: you've given her all you can, been wonderful; though misguided - you were using the wrong tools for the job and they have, not surprisingly, failed. If you had listened to the experts you would have learnt that.

She is refusing to visit the dr to discuss help. If this was dh you would all be saying LTB. To describe the situation, she is in a deep hole, we have trown in countless ropes to help pull her out. She sets fire to them and asks us to climb down into the hole to pull her out. I will not do that.