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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is he being abusive as well as alcoholic? or am I being a controlling cow?

93 replies

newnamesamegame · 03/07/2014 18:24

Bear with me as this may be long.
Back story to this is that for years I have been worried about H's drinking. He drinks almost every night, usually about 3-4 cans of beer, more at weekends, and weirdly more on Sundays than any other night of the week. He rarely gets inebriated and almost never stays out very late but the dependency worries me, as does the fact that drinking makes him short-tempered and occasionally verbally abusive, and increasingly I'm worried about our 3-year old DD noticing that he drinks every night. I also resent the fact that so many weekends he chooses to go to the pub instead of doing things with DD and I. I have begged him to have a few dry nights in the week. Generally his response has been to tell me I'm paranoid and he refuses to be controlled.

Over the past few months we've been fighting a lot and his drinking has escalated. It got to a point about a fortnight ago after three or four weekends where I felt my weekends had been ruined by his drinking, that I gave him an ultimatum, told him he had to either radically cut down his drinking (basically stopping during the week) or move out. After a lot of sulking and fighting, a week ago he agreed to stop.

He went four nights without a drink but was visibly stressed and finding it difficult. I suggested to him that he should think about getting support and he said he didn't need it. The second of those nights he disappeared off into the night saying he needed to walk and think. I assumed he would go to the pub but he didn't, he came back sober, but very agitated.

By the end of the week he had had a couple of cans and I decided not to fight him on this so let it go. He drank at the weekend but fairly moderately.

Monday he didn't drink again. Then Tuesday (I was at home sick, feeling very sorry for myself with DD) he came back late, smelling of booze. Not hugely, but it was clear he had been drinking. I decided not to make an issue of it although I was obviously displeased. I assumed he had just decided to have a couple and would leave it at that. He went off to the kitchen to cook and I heard him opening a can of beer. I followed him down there and just said "I thought we had an agreement."

He proceeded to let fly at me, aggressively, that he wasn't going to be told what to do in his home (its not his home, its mine) and would be drinking every night from now on. I walked quietly out of the room, not saying anything but making it clear I wasn't happy.

I then heard him telling DD he was going to have to leave the house and that mummy didn't want him here.

Now a) before someone comes on and tells me the three rules of Al-Anon, (I didn't cause it, can't control it etc) I know all this back to front and I know I need not to let it bother me. But the mechanics of not letting it bother me are a different matter.

I need to know, first of all, if I am being unreasonable in expecting to stick to what has been agreed without at least mentioning to me first that he wanted to have a brief drink after work etc? There's a bit of me thinking "its summer, he works hard, why not unwind after work?" the problem is he rarely just has one or two. If he goes out after work he will have two or three after work and then another two or three at home.

And the main thing is, I am furious about him taking it upon himself to talk to DD about something so sensitive without talking to me first and agreeing what is going to happen.

So am I a controlling b or is he abusive? Or are we both as bad as each other?

OP posts:
Branleuse · 03/07/2014 18:29

if hes not getting inebriated, it sounds like youre being controlling more than anything.

Its not ideal to drink so much, but its also up to him really

Bowlersarm · 03/07/2014 18:36

I would say.....your last sentence.

He doesn't get inebriated or stay out late. Although you say he goes to the pub at the weekend instead of doing things with you? That's not so good.

Alcohol causes so much trouble in relationships if you aren't on the same page about it.

Wolfiefan · 03/07/2014 18:36

If he struggled to go for four days without a drink then I'd worry. He seems controlling in telling your DD you are to blame. I wouldn't want someone with an unhealthy attitude to alcohol around my DC.
How many units a week?
How many nights alcohol free?

fifi669 · 03/07/2014 18:39

If he's your H then isn't it both your house and not just yours OP?

Drinking everyday isn't great. Everyone is aware of that. Though he is only drinking the equivalent of a glass or two of wine which many people do in the evening. The fact he's uneasy on days he doesn't drink though indicate there is a problem.

HowardTJMoon · 03/07/2014 18:39

You're not unreasonable to expect someone to stick to an agreement they have made with you. You are unrealistic to expect someone with a drink problem to be able to magically grow the ability to control their drinking. His behaviour screams out that a) he's got an alcohol problem, and b) he fully intends to continue drinking.

The important point is this; you told him that either he sticks to the agreement regarding his drinking or he has to leave. He has told you in both words and actions that you can shove that agreement up your arse.

You are a "controlling bitch" in the sense that you are trying to get him to control his drinking. Given his behaviour when he's been drinking that's not ridiculous but it is futile. He knows he sometimes treats you badly when he's been drinking. He's willing to risk continuing to treat you badly because the alternative - that he stops drinking - is not something he can face.

skippy84 · 03/07/2014 18:39

As a recovering alcoholic myself it sounds very familiar. The level of inebriation dosen't really matter it's the dependency, broken promises and manipulation through your daughter.

You are right to be concerned. Problem drinking gets worse not better unless he starts seeking support.

I would recommend you seek help for yourself to assess the situation and find some clarity.

DottyDooRidesAgain · 03/07/2014 18:40

Firstly if he lives there it is his home too so UR for saying it wasn't.

Secondly YANBU regarding the drinking. He is an adult and will make his own choices but when his drinking is having an impact on his family then it is clearly too much.

You cannot force him to get help but maybe you can get him to see how much he is actually drinking and why.

Talk to him and put this to him:

For 2 weeks you will not 'nag' him about his drinking. As long as he is not abusive you will let him carry on.

However in those 2 weeks he must keep a diary. In it he will write down what time he had his first drink.
How he felt before it.
Why he felt he needed/deserved a drink.
How many he had.
What time he finished.

Ask him to be honest and true in his account and you will uphold the no nagging rule.
After the two weeks sit down together and go through it.

Some people that drink everyday lose track of how much they drink over a week and why they drink. It becomes a habit which can get out of control.
The diary may help him realise the true amount and whether he is drinking through stress/boredom/habit.

Good luck OP.

Ikeameatballs · 03/07/2014 18:41

Ex-dp was like this. It escalated, he spent hours in the pub instead of with his children and spent huge amounts of money on alcohol that he didn't have.

There are other reasons he is an ex but alcohol was the biggest. I would be very concerned.

Etah · 03/07/2014 18:50

I doubt he will agree to keep a diary at this stage because he simply not ready to assess his drinking problem.

You say you don't want any advice from Al_Anon point of view so the only option I see for you is LTB.

He said to your child that he will leave the house because you do not accept his drinking. He is just thinking about doing what you told him to do. You are the one who are failing in setting and keeping boundaries.

told him he had to either radically cut down his drinking (basically stopping during the week) or move out. After a lot of sulking and fighting, a week ago he agreed to stop
Then Tuesday (I was at home sick, feeling very sorry for myself with DD) he came back late, smelling of booze

See. He broke his word and crossed the boundary. Now you either have to follow through with your ultimatum or decide if you will accept his drinking and the behaviour that comes with it.

Whatever you do, make sure your daughter is protected as much as possible.

teaandthorazine · 03/07/2014 18:51

Whether he gets pissed regularly or not is kind of irrelevant. You don't need to be stumbling around drunk to have an issue with alcohol, which he sounds as if he does. He finds it hard not to drink, and his need to drink is interfering with your time as a family. Both are signs of someone with alcohol addiction.

I was married to an alcoholic and well remember the sinking feeling of hearing him in the kitchen opening another can.

I'm not sure you're being controlling and I'm not sure he's being abusive. Yet. I do think you need to contact al-anon, however, because this is only going to get worse.

Yabu about the house though, tbh. If you're married, it's his home as well.

newnamesamegame · 03/07/2014 18:59

Just for the record about the house I didn't say this to him. (It is a fair point though.)

Wolfiefan almost never goes a night without drink unless he is either ill or very hungover (or I have begged him.)

He averages 3-4 cans a night at home. More if he goes out or people come over. And Sundays.

OP posts:
Etah · 03/07/2014 19:07

Asking and begging will never work.

You either let go and let him take care of himself and make his won decisions (including not spending time with his family) or you separate.

You need to concentrate on yourself.

YOU CAN NOT CONTROL IT.
Al_Anon. sorry...

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/07/2014 19:07

"Now a) before someone comes on and tells me the three rules of Al-Anon, (I didn't cause it, can't control it etc) I know all this back to front and I know I need not to let it bother me. But the mechanics of not letting it bother me are a different matter".

The 3cs are actually the 3cs of alcoholism, not the three rules of Al-anon. Al-anon is primarily for family members of problem drinkers and what you write about your H is certainly he having a drink problem. It is also a problem because his drinking is worrying you.

And what HowardTJMoon wrote earlier with particular reference to you trying to control his drinking. That's an utter waste of time on your part and just prolongs the agonies for all concerned.

You need to properly acknowledge your own roles in this because you are certainly playing out more than one role here (that of provoker and enabler). You also have a choice re this man, your child does not. You certainly do not want your child growing up thinking that all this is actually normal.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/07/2014 19:09

Do not kid yourself that you can fully protect your child from the realities of his alcohol problem because you cannot.

What is your own plan going forward, leaving him?.

Etah · 03/07/2014 19:11

INSANITY = doing the same thing over nad over again and expecting different results.

You can not change his behaviour. Only yours.

newnamesamegame · 03/07/2014 19:19

Attila I know. I just meant that I know in theory there's nothing I can do to control it but when you are living with it it's hard not to try to control.

I don't know what to do. A couple of weeks ago I was ready for him to leave. I am just desperately worried about my daughter and how she will react. When he offered to stop I took him at his word and he seemed to be serious.

But when little more than a week later he is reneging on this but seems not to acknowledge that he is reneging its hard to know what to do.

I know what he wanted me to do was to just let it go for that night. But I know that the next night there would be another excuse. There always is. And like I say it's not like he is drinking 10 pints and falling down or puking.

I have made it clear that I don't mind him drinking: just not every night. I just desperately want to feel that I can be at home with my family sometimes and just hang out without drink having to be involved. But to him that is controlling.

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 03/07/2014 19:21

You don't mind him drinking but not every night? See that's the problem. You and I can take or leave it but he can't.

Wolfiefan · 03/07/2014 19:22

I also guess you are underestimating what he drinks? How much is more?

meandcoffeeequalhappy · 03/07/2014 19:22

YABU for the simple reason, you told him your boundaries, you spelled out the consequences, he broke the agreement, and you did nothing. It is irrelevant who is being right and wrong, or controlling, or alcoholic. You seem clear in your mind from your posts that his drinking is ultimately upsetting to you and worries you a great deal, this it crossing your feelings of what acceptable behaviour is and and you have repeatedly told him this. But by setting out a consequence you had no intention of fulfilling you are now giving him mixed messages, and that will do the opposite of sort out your problems.

A healthy relationship is not one where you are unable to work things through, or where someone flies off the handle and behave irrationally because you are trying to moderate behaviour that worries you. At the end of the day if the relationship is going to work for both of you, he does not get to be a petulant child that can do whatever he wants whenever he wants. Or use blackmail (telling your DC) to make you feel guilty.

You definitely don't have to be stumbling drunk to be alcoholic, or to drink spirits. If it is affecting his relationships, he has a problem. He is out on weekends drinking instead of spending time with his family, and is drinking quite a great deal at home for the same reason? You need to figure out what you want and do it, and if he doesn't play ball figure out exactly what you are and are not willing to put up with. At the moment he is boss, albeit a also self-perceived martyr.

AnyFucker · 03/07/2014 19:26

So, you gave him an ultimatum that you either cannot or will not follow through

That was your biggest mistake and now you are stuck

Accept his drinking and STFU

Or end your relationship

That was the choice you gave him and he chose to drink

It's over you now

But my strong advice is not to make threats you have no intention of carrying out...it undermines you and the respect he has for you over the big A will get worn away every time you do that

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/07/2014 19:26

If he has a drink problem he should not be drinking at all. Controlling his drinking in any way is a wasted effort.

Would you want your child to continue to grow up in such an environment?. She after all is learning about relationships from the two of you. What is she being taught here?.

"I just desperately want to feel that I can be at home with my family sometimes and just hang out without drink having to be involved. But to him that is controlling".

The first sentence will not at all happen as long as he is around. You can take or leave drink, he cannot. His primary relationship is with drink and his next thought centres on where the next drink is going to come from.

And what he is saying here is exactly what an alcoholic would say. He is allowed to "fail" you see, you are not. You play out the provoker role here in his alcoholism; you never forget.

AnyFucker · 03/07/2014 19:27

over to you

AttilaTheMeerkat · 03/07/2014 19:29

He is likely also badly underestimating how much he is drinking; he is probably putting away far more than either he or you care to realise.

It is bloody hard to get off the merry go around that is alcoholism but you be potentially going around in circles for many more years yet. You have to make the decision yourself to come off that but sometimes it is "easier" to stay in the same role that you have given yourself. That is also why it is difficult to leave.

meandcoffeeequalhappy · 03/07/2014 19:33

OP you should go to an Al Anon meeting and talk to people who grew up in an alcoholic household. Then decide whether it would be better for your child to grow up with a dad that drinks excessively. And it is the behaviour that affects the families not the being drunk in itself, and I don't mean the having had a few behaviour, but the whole attitude and everything around it.

I have to say any adult who threatens a little child and tells them they are leaving and it is the other parent's fault, would have their bags packed and be on my door step as quickly as I could do it. Quite shocking. Think about it from the child's pov... abandonment, guilt, shame, blame, being piggy in the middle... this is the sort of behaviour I am talking about. It is not rational or healthy now is it? Or another example, he let's fly at you, presumably raised voices, your DC in the house?? Not good really? A child will hear it.

Another thing is, if he is not around, as you describe he often isn't on weekends etc, will your DC miss him. He is not as big a part in her life as you then is he? Just saying. You might be surprised how little your DC reacts to that part.

AnyFucker · 03/07/2014 19:38

There is no excuse for verbal abuse and there is even less for emotional abuse of a child

Your husband is a fucking piece of shit of the highest order for the way he used your child to try and put you back in your box for threatening him.

Your child(ren) are now clearly pawns in this fucked up dynamic between you two

Bad news, very bad news indeed and to be quite honest as he is in the grip of addiction it is down to you to put a stop to it I am afraid

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