Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is he being abusive as well as alcoholic? or am I being a controlling cow?

93 replies

newnamesamegame · 03/07/2014 18:24

Bear with me as this may be long.
Back story to this is that for years I have been worried about H's drinking. He drinks almost every night, usually about 3-4 cans of beer, more at weekends, and weirdly more on Sundays than any other night of the week. He rarely gets inebriated and almost never stays out very late but the dependency worries me, as does the fact that drinking makes him short-tempered and occasionally verbally abusive, and increasingly I'm worried about our 3-year old DD noticing that he drinks every night. I also resent the fact that so many weekends he chooses to go to the pub instead of doing things with DD and I. I have begged him to have a few dry nights in the week. Generally his response has been to tell me I'm paranoid and he refuses to be controlled.

Over the past few months we've been fighting a lot and his drinking has escalated. It got to a point about a fortnight ago after three or four weekends where I felt my weekends had been ruined by his drinking, that I gave him an ultimatum, told him he had to either radically cut down his drinking (basically stopping during the week) or move out. After a lot of sulking and fighting, a week ago he agreed to stop.

He went four nights without a drink but was visibly stressed and finding it difficult. I suggested to him that he should think about getting support and he said he didn't need it. The second of those nights he disappeared off into the night saying he needed to walk and think. I assumed he would go to the pub but he didn't, he came back sober, but very agitated.

By the end of the week he had had a couple of cans and I decided not to fight him on this so let it go. He drank at the weekend but fairly moderately.

Monday he didn't drink again. Then Tuesday (I was at home sick, feeling very sorry for myself with DD) he came back late, smelling of booze. Not hugely, but it was clear he had been drinking. I decided not to make an issue of it although I was obviously displeased. I assumed he had just decided to have a couple and would leave it at that. He went off to the kitchen to cook and I heard him opening a can of beer. I followed him down there and just said "I thought we had an agreement."

He proceeded to let fly at me, aggressively, that he wasn't going to be told what to do in his home (its not his home, its mine) and would be drinking every night from now on. I walked quietly out of the room, not saying anything but making it clear I wasn't happy.

I then heard him telling DD he was going to have to leave the house and that mummy didn't want him here.

Now a) before someone comes on and tells me the three rules of Al-Anon, (I didn't cause it, can't control it etc) I know all this back to front and I know I need not to let it bother me. But the mechanics of not letting it bother me are a different matter.

I need to know, first of all, if I am being unreasonable in expecting to stick to what has been agreed without at least mentioning to me first that he wanted to have a brief drink after work etc? There's a bit of me thinking "its summer, he works hard, why not unwind after work?" the problem is he rarely just has one or two. If he goes out after work he will have two or three after work and then another two or three at home.

And the main thing is, I am furious about him taking it upon himself to talk to DD about something so sensitive without talking to me first and agreeing what is going to happen.

So am I a controlling b or is he abusive? Or are we both as bad as each other?

OP posts:
Bessymessy · 03/07/2014 20:33

I would agree with others that Al Anon might be able to offer support. However, the issue is surely his behaviour and how you feel about it. it does sound as though he has a problem and also that he is not ready or able to see that. It boils down to what you can tolerate. Either he continues as he is and you learn to live with it, ( which I don't recommend but it is an option) or he gets help with his drinking. If he chooses not to or is not able to then all you can do is decide whether to leave him or not. Please do talk to Al-Anon. Your situation is not uncommon.

Fwiw I don't think you are controlling, that's a classic addicts allegation.

adaorarda · 03/07/2014 20:57

You need to go to meetings and start disentangling. it's all very well to know the signs, know the al-anon lingo, etc but you need to start living it now. start being part of the al anon community, take the support that's there.

your H has a drinking problem. that is as plain as the nose on your face.

he is drinking quite a lot more than is recommended as the upper limit per week for a man;

he is angrily defending his drinking and getting extremely upset with you for not "letting" him drink;

and (this is the real sign that you're in the shitter) he is now using your small child to get at you, to force you to shut up about his drinking and not dare to place any consequences on him.

as the child of alcoholics, let me tell you, your baby is never going to have a chance at a happy life if you leave her in the presence of this man. LTB, or at least start taking steps to properly protect your innocent child.

Etah · 03/07/2014 21:05

Fwiw I don't think you are controlling, that's a classic addicts allegation

Unfortunately this is a trap that affects many people leaving with alcoholics in the family.

Even if she hadn't a controlling personality before she is slowly but surely developing it now and the end result will be that she will end up spending all of her energy focusing on the alcoholic instead of herself and other members of the family.
Meanwhile the Alcoholic will find in it excuses to drink even more....

This will result in a cycle of fights, talks, guilty trips, promises, lies and disappointment...

However, the alcoholic will have the option to get numb by the alcohol whilst the other will have to deal with it raw.

secretsquirrel1 · 03/07/2014 23:48

New.....

I was exactly where you are now 8 years ago.

Thanks to Al-Anon, I understood that the alcoholic has an overwhelming compulsion to drink and that only the alcoholic can help to get themselves sober.

I soon had a clearer head and a much better perspective. I could now understand why my EH behaved the way he did; I had hoped that my changed reactions would help him to change his too and that he would find AA. But he didn't Sad. I had to hit my rock bottom to be able to go to Al-Anon and listen and understand what alcoholism was about. It is now a way of life for me and believe me, no-one in RL can possibly understand what it is like to live with active alcoholism.....I'm saying that it has helped me, and plenty others and it may help you too - but only you can make that decision. However, it has to be a better way of life to what you are experiencing right now.

I learnt how to get on with my life, how to stop obsessing with what he was up to, trying to control his drinking, stopping accepting unacceptable behaviour, and learnt how to put boundaries in place, not to mention safeguarding our DD.

His behaviour escalated (as I was no longer reacting to him) and he started to behave badly in front of our DD. I made an informed decision, with a clear head, to divorce him. Broke my heart, because as far as I was concerned, I was divorcing the alcoholic, not him. His is still drinking Sad Sad Sad but thank God we're not living with that madness anymore.
Your DD doesn't have a choice but you do. Please get some help for yourself, get out of the ring. You are both being affected by his drinking.

PS. If you think that what he has said so far is bad, that is just the start. He will say and do the most horrible and wicked things because he needs to see how upset he can make you in order to give him the reason to drink more. It is all based on guilt and obsession.

PPS. Hi Atilla!!

newnamesamegame · 04/07/2014 06:53

Secret thanks. I tried to go to an Al-Anon meeting two weeks ago but H sabotaged that by being late back from pub. Almost had to laugh.

I will try to go. I have to say its bloody hard finding time but I will try.

OP posts:
meandcoffeeequalhappy · 04/07/2014 07:08

Before I left my alcoholic, I organised a reliable babysitter, went along to Al Anon, XH promised to go to AA ('his idea' and could only do it the same day and time as the one nearby Al Anon meeting Hmm) and he rocked up and met me when it had finished, drunk. So similar to what you experienced I guess. It felt crushing. I think it was his way of sticking two fingers up at me.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 04/07/2014 07:18

OP you're not being unreasonable. However what you are now is sensitised because this has been happening day in, day out for so long. It's become one of those issues which is very, very annoying to you but which, to a casual observer might not seem all that bad. Even you are wondering if it's enough to end a marriage over, disrupt a family etc.

I have unfortunately had a lot to do with a family who had varying degrees of problems with alcohol and it's not the quantity/frequency/dependency of the drinking behaviour etc that ruins relationships. Wanting very different things out of life and having different priorities ruins the relationship.

newnamesamegame · 04/07/2014 07:39

Thanks Cogito this is spot on. Sometimes I just feel like I am being a bit of a witch about it. I observe many people who drink routinely after work including some of my own workmates and wonder what the hell I am getting so stressed out about. Everyone does this. Right?

What upsets me: a) that he can't have "fun" without it. About a year ago I persuaded him to do something with dd and me on a Sat. Just a silly little kids' outing. DD had been before with nursery and wanted to go with us. After weeks of badgering, he agreed to go but moaned about everything then, as soon as we finished, raced to the pub. The relief on his face was tangible. It was as if he felt he had earned his drinking by doing a tedious family chore.

b) the fact that it has to be EVERY night although he knows I desperately want it not to be every night.

c) the fact that it makes him stroppy and rude.

But when looked at in the abstract my behaviour does look unreasonable. I hate the fact that I can't just chill out about it but I can't.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 04/07/2014 08:29

Your feelings are not abstract, the are personal to you, important and 100% valid. It doesn't matter one whit if other people are fully happy with their partner being drunk from sunrise to sunset..... that is their prerogative.

My exH had a lot in common with your DH. I always say he could have been a proper alcoholic if he'd tried a little harder. Couldn't have a good time without alcohol, drank almost daily, became miserable and offensive after a drink.... Spent a lot of my married life apologising for his behaviour after parties - so it was also embarrassing. Even overturning his car and being banned from driving didn't dent his love of booze.

Do you get told you're abnormal? A kill-joy? Miserable? To 'lighten up'? 'No-one else has a problem with it'? Your behaviour is not unreasonable, you are simply responding to the 'drip drip drip' effect of living with someone else's bad habits.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 04/07/2014 09:16

Anyfucker said this -
^Your husband is a fucking piece of shit of the highest order for the way he used your child to try and put you back in your box for threatening him.
Your child(ren) are now clearly pawns in this fucked up dynamic between you two^

Think about it. He's using your child's emotional well being to blackmail you into shutting up about his drinking. That's an alcoholic's tactic; they will do and say anything to preserve their primary relationship.

We are so conditioned in this country to see alcohol as something totally normal, that we all have rights to enjoy, that you are twisting yourself in knots trying not to be 'controlling' about it when your whole being is screaming that this is a problem. His drinking is absolutely a problem, he definitely sounds dependent in alcohol/alcoholic and you have two options now. One is to accept that, live with it, try and fail to protect your DD from the effects and live a tense, stressed and difficult life together. The other is to leave him until/in case he decides to accept the problem, addresses it and take full responsibility for the break up. You will have to accept that that may never happen so you would need to look on the break up as permanent unless proved otherwise.

Twinklestein · 04/07/2014 10:20

Having a glass of wine after work to relax is one thing; having 3-4 cans of beer every night, being unable go 4 days without drinking, alcohol altering behaviour and priorities etc - these are 2 different things. He is apparently alcohol dependent and cannot stop on his own without the support of a programme.

Which is not to say that some of your workmates may not be pissing off their partners with their regular drinking, they may well be.

newnamesamegame · 05/07/2014 09:45

He has not spoken to me since Tuesday night (when this occurred). Is absolutely fuming at me. I haven't been able to speak to him about it.

I'm now feeling really angry.... I actually haven't done anything wrong, just asked him why he had gone back on an agreement. Why is he always so pissed off with me after these incidents happening? I've given up even trying persuade him to moderate his drinking, just walked away from it. So why is he so pissed off with me?

I feel like I'm going crazy. I keep alternating between fury at him about the way he used my DD and his general lack of interest in my feelings and feeling that I must be turning into a paranoid control freak.

OP posts:
BananaBumps · 05/07/2014 10:02

I hate the fact that I can't just chill out about it but I can't

Really don't feel bad about this. As you have realised, you trying to control his drinking won't work as it gives him something to rebel against and stops him taking responsibility for himself.

I suspect when talking to him you need to concentrate on his behaviour i.e. not spending quality time with you and DD, not caring about your feelings.

He needs to realise that his behaviour does have consequences - ultimately he can have you or the drink but not both.

BananaBumps · 05/07/2014 10:03

I agree with whoever said about getting a babysitter so you can go to the al-anon meetings.

newnamesamegame · 05/07/2014 10:04

Banana I have essentially spelled this out to him (about not being able to have us both) and he keeps pushing back against this. He seems to think its unreasonable that I want not to have alcohol in the house every night and I can't get past this with him.

OP posts:
Quitelikely · 05/07/2014 10:06

I would be furious about what he said to the child. Absolutely wrong on every level. You need to protect her from that sort of verbal abuse.

I would honestly suggest a trial separation to see if he can mend his ways during that time.

Sollers · 05/07/2014 10:06

Its because he feels guilty and shit about himself but he doesn'tlike feeling that about himself, so he transfers it over to you. Lucky you!

I'd start planning to leave if i was you, op.

Isetan · 05/07/2014 11:06

You want us to tell you how to be the 'Cool Wife', who isn't bothered by her partner's excessive drinking and detachment from family life, good luck on that one.

Stop asking 'Why can't he ..." and 'Why doesn't he...' and start asking 'Why do I tolerate it because continuing to expose you and your DD to his terrible behaviour, is your choice.

Your partner is not the only one lacking boundaries, where yours are, are ultimately your prerogative but the emotional abuse of your child should damn well be a deal breaker. Boundaries are only as good as their defences and you can't defend what you don't acknowledge.

Go to Al-Anon to get some perspective and support.

Good luck.

Isetan · 05/07/2014 11:20

HE IS AN ALCOHOLIC! The logic of an abuser of alcohol is that anybody or anything that interferes with their level of alcohol use, is unreasonable. OP, you're the one who doesn't get it. Your attempts at reasoning with him are futile, focus your energies on the things that you can control, namely, you and your DD's exposure to his terrible behaviour.

DollyTwat · 05/07/2014 11:22

Op there are quite a few of us who have been exactly where you are now. It's horrible.

You will start to plan around his potential drinking (if you don't already), every party you go to you'll have that knot in your stomach knowing he'll get pissed, or not go with you at all.

Bank holidays you'll have a plan B in case he gets pissed on the Friday and comes back on the Monday. You might even start to see him causing a row where there wasn't one, so he has an excuse to get pissed

You won't see him secretly drinking, or downing shots at the bar when it's his round.

So, if you can detach from it and realise that he's not actually doing it TO you, you don't feature at all in his thinking. It's not done to piss you off. That's just a symptom

Alcoholics are selfish. It's all about them.
You can't change that op. It's not about you, it's an addiction

turbonerd · 05/07/2014 12:40

Hei New, haven't read last few posts of thread but came as far as that HE is angry with YOU. Oh yes, as that makes totally sense. You have asked him to cut back on his drinking for the sake of you as a family. He could not. It is pretty classic behaviour, and it is so awful to live with. Please don't put yourself and your daughter through it any longer.
The best way forward is to separate. My experience with my alcoholic ex is that it goes downhill. He did not drink that very much either, and actually stayed at home and did not og to the pub. After 10 years or so it was just devastating. Just a few beers a day had crept up to many beers each day + 2 bottles of whisky each week. He became really nasty etc, again something that just gradually escalated.
Even if you are married and it is his home too, I would think he should be moving out. He's got the problem and is not able/willing to sober up for his daughter.

newnamesamegame · 05/07/2014 13:00

Dolly but this is the thing... his drinking has very rarely been bad enough his behaviour has, but that's a slightly different matter to merit a really hard line approach. This is what makes it so difficult to respond to.

He has never, in the nearly 10 years we have been together, gone on an all-weekend bender. He rarely stays out beyond about midnight, to be honest. He has never fallen down from drink or vomited because of it (or not in front of me anyway) and never got into a fight. He has missed days from work but that's more because we have fought about it and he hasn't slept, as opposed to having a hangover.

He is not a "drunk" in the sense that most people would recognise. Very few people would identify him walking down the street as an alcoholic. When I challenge him on his drinking he points out, with some justification, that he is in control, which is true to the extent that he is a high-functioning alcoholic, as opposed to the sleeping on a park bench, vomiting in the street variety.

Its just the steady stream of daily drinking at moderate to high levels, the fact that he basically won't plan anything with the family because he doesn't want it to interfere with his drinking and the fact that it makes him bad-tempered and rude and occasionally abusive.

I know he has a problem, but its very hard to get to a point where I can identify behaviour to him is beyond question a result of his drinking.

OP posts:
DustBunnyFarmer · 05/07/2014 13:03

Even midnight seems a late night out (without specific celebration/big night out) to me. I suspect you are minimising a lot here. The emotional abuse of your daughter is deeply troubling.

Butterflyspring · 05/07/2014 13:09

I think he reliant on alcohol and I think he is abusive - so now the choice is yours. Do you want to separate - if so how are you going to go about that?

He isn't going to stop drinking any time soon - no matter how much you want it. I have been where you are - he will just minimise his behaviour or lie about how much he drinks.

Will you see a solicitor to find out your rights regarding house?

newnamesamegame · 05/07/2014 13:10

And the other thing I hate is that the drinking environment he lives in seems so dysfunctional...

he drinks with casual acquaintances or strangers, for the most part. He has very few actual friends. The people he drinks with are nameless to me anyway they are never invited to the house and as far as I can tell he never even arranges to meet them, just bumps into them. Yet these people are routinely prioritized over me and DD for no better reason than because he is with them and they are drinking.

I go out drinking, but I drink as part of a social ritual that is basically about seeing friends. I don't drink just for its own sake. And I arrange these things properly and give him prior warning.

I have tried to explain, multiple times, that I think his attitude to drinking is totally dysfunctional and he just can't see it.

OP posts: