Is he being abusive as well as alcoholic? or am I being a controlling cow?

[newnamesamegame]

Bear with me as this may be long.
Back story to this is that for years I have been worried about H's drinking. He drinks almost every night, usually about 3-4 cans of beer, more at weekends, and weirdly more on Sundays than any other night of the week. He rarely gets inebriated and almost never stays out very late but the dependency worries me, as does the fact that drinking makes him short-tempered and occasionally verbally abusive, and increasingly I'm worried about our 3-year old DD noticing that he drinks every night. I also resent the fact that so many weekends he chooses to go to the pub instead of doing things with DD and I. I have begged him to have a few dry nights in the week. Generally his response has been to tell me I'm paranoid and he refuses to be controlled.

Over the past few months we've been fighting a lot and his drinking has escalated. It got to a point about a fortnight ago after three or four weekends where I felt my weekends had been ruined by his drinking, that I gave him an ultimatum, told him he had to either radically cut down his drinking (basically stopping during the week) or move out. After a lot of sulking and fighting, a week ago he agreed to stop.

He went four nights without a drink but was visibly stressed and finding it difficult. I suggested to him that he should think about getting support and he said he didn't need it. The second of those nights he disappeared off into the night saying he needed to walk and think. I assumed he would go to the pub but he didn't, he came back sober, but very agitated.

By the end of the week he had had a couple of cans and I decided not to fight him on this so let it go. He drank at the weekend but fairly moderately.

Monday he didn't drink again. Then Tuesday (I was at home sick, feeling very sorry for myself with DD) he came back late, smelling of booze. Not hugely, but it was clear he had been drinking. I decided not to make an issue of it although I was obviously displeased. I assumed he had just decided to have a couple and would leave it at that. He went off to the kitchen to cook and I heard him opening a can of beer. I followed him down there and just said "I thought we had an agreement."

He proceeded to let fly at me, aggressively, that he wasn't going to be told what to do in his home (its not his home, its mine) and would be drinking every night from now on. I walked quietly out of the room, not saying anything but making it clear I wasn't happy.

I then heard him telling DD he was going to have to leave the house and that mummy didn't want him here.

Now a) before someone comes on and tells me the three rules of Al-Anon, (I didn't cause it, can't control it etc) I know all this back to front and I know I need not to let it bother me. But the mechanics of not letting it bother me are a different matter.

I need to know, first of all, if I am being unreasonable in expecting to stick to what has been agreed without at least mentioning to me first that he wanted to have a brief drink after work etc? There's a bit of me thinking "its summer, he works hard, why not unwind after work?" the problem is he rarely just has one or two. If he goes out after work he will have two or three after work and then another two or three at home.

And the main thing is, I am furious about him taking it upon himself to talk to DD about something so sensitive without talking to me first and agreeing what is going to happen.

So am I a controlling b or is he abusive? Or are we both as bad as each other?

Attila I didn't actively wish my mum would leave my dad when I was a child -- it didn't really occur to me. In retrospect I realise she would have been happier, finances notwithstanding, if she had left him.

Also weirdly I was closer to my dad than my mum. I resented my mum quite a bit, she seemed to have compromised too much in various ways in her life and I never felt I really knew her.

And no the parallels are not lost on me.

Hi newnames, I wanted to post as I have been in your position, my exP was exactly the same, had to drink every night, visible uncomfortable if he didn't, drank far too much IMO on weekends. I made the mistake of posting on AIBU earlier this year where half the people said 'he's an adult, he's not getting drunk or being abusive, what's the problem??' So I know where you are coming from, I also have a DD.
I spent years negotiating, thinking if he cut down I'd be happy etc but it never happened. Even when he cut down in week he would be worse, making up for it in weekend. It affected everything without me even realising it half the time, for example I didn't go out much but if I did I would try and do it on a fri night as I knew he wouldn't drink as much as on a sat where he wld start around 1pm, like I said he didn't get 'drunk' but our dd was young& I didn't like it, I always thought if she woke in night he wouldn't hear her if in deep intoxicated sleep etc, he would cut days out short for some excuse which I'd know was always so he could get back to have a drink. It came to a point that I lost respect and fell out of love with him. It was a shame as he was a decent guy in lots of other ways but he also started gambling a lot and I just had enough of fighting with him, being told I was the 'unreasonable' one. I DONT think YRBU, and I'm sorry but I don't think things will change if he won't admit or doesn't think its an issue, it will always be 'your issue'. How long has it being going on and you've felt like this?

osospecial I've been aware that he drinks more than is good for him for years. When we first got together I drank a lot more than I do now (probably also not great for me) so it seemed more normal, though even then I thought he overdid it relative to me. For years I've been asking him to have some dry nights in the week and for a period of about a year he did, we had dry Mondays and Tuesdays, but over time he found excuses to push back against it so in effect it ended up with him drinking most Mondays and Tuesdays as well.

I hoped like so many other suckers that having a child would knock some sense into him as it did me. I hardly ever drink in the week now, and rarely at home now, just drink when I am out with friends which is at most twice a week and very rarely more than about 3 units in a sitting.

For a long while I sort of came to an uneasy peace with it but in the last 7-8 months it has started to really disgust me. This, combined with the social thing and the having to find excuses to go to the pub all the time, are becoming a dealbreaker. I think its probably me that's changed, rather than him. I've just come to really resent the dominance alcohol has over my life.

I could have written every word of that! I was exactly the same and so at first I didn't see any problem until we settled down and had dd (who has been diagnosed with asd) so it was a hard time for us but I felt like I had to grow up and be responsible and he never did so the resentment grew. 'I came to resent the dominance alcohol had over my life'-exactly that! I would get worked up but try and keep it in so as not to argue but it ate away at me over the years. Cutting days out short saying we 'have to be back for ....(enter some excuse), or 'has' to go down the shop as we've run out of...(any random thing) just to buy another bottle of wine.
ExP also agreed to 'not drinking in the week' which gradually excluded mon, fri, thurs! He was gutted when we split but it still didn't change anything and I've accepted now that it won't. I told him to find somebody who it wouldn't bother but I couldn't live like that anymore, I was so unhappy, I didn't realise how much until I left. I'm not saying you should leave as every situation is different and maybe your DH can change this, only you both know that. He needs to understand the affect it has on you, Exp never could, despite wanting things to work.

osospecial yes it sounds like the same deal.

I also recognise that thing about having to go to the shop to buy things...

well I have been hoping up until now to shock him into doing something about it. Until recently I was clinging onto the hope that ultimately our family and our marriage meant more to him. I gave him the ultimatum about three weeks ago and when he responded positively I was so happy. I don't know whether its that he's still trying to call my bluff or that he physically can't quit. Either way, it doesn't bode well...

The fact that after all that, and knowing he knows how unhappy it is making me, he still cannot even meet me half way on it and is insisting on having to drink EVERY night, just makes me furious. I can't even look at him.

Yes I know how you feel about being furious when they don't keep to their word. It's true what they say though, you can't 'make' somebody see they have a problem or make them change for you, they have to do it for themselves and realise themselves that they need to change it. It's so frustrating waiting for that though, it might happen, it might not. I used to put certain programmes like a documentary on about things like that, hoping he would see sense without me pressuring him. Although he knew exactly how I felt about it. The doctor scared him once about him having dangerously high cholesterol and what he should change in his diet and I really thought things would change but even that only stopped him temporarily. I think if he does it 'for you' it will have a negative effect on your relationship anyway as he will just resent you for 'controlling' him. He needs to want to change it himself, I wish I could tell you how to make that happen.

I am totally with Skippy84 on this. The man you are describing could be my ex husband.
My ex came up with every excuse in the book for his drinking and got more and more verbally abusive as the years went on.
He too could manage about four days without a drink. When he got nasty with drink he would brush it off as 'being lively' and I was the one with no sense of humour and a nag for not being OK with it.
I did everything I could to help him but left him four years ago. He still 'gets lively', I'm told, and is now starting to suffer health issues because of it.
Sad, really, and a v painful situation for you to be in. Hope you have a good support network, friends were invaluable, I found. x

PS When I say 'help' him, I mean that he would get to certain 'low' points when he'd recognise he had some sort of dependency and then beg me to police his drinking. But when I did, he'd go mad and call me a nag.
Drinking was the 'other woman' in my marriage, always hovering in the background even when things were going well. Really feel for anyone going through this situation.

Cava yes I recognise that.

He has at points recognised that he has a problem and has said he needs to do something about it. But he is never prepared to make it a priority. Something else will come up in life (as it will), some low level bit of work stress or an argument with me or money hassle, and immediately it will be an excuse. He can't seem to make the necessary mental leap that if you are going to give something up you have to give it up when times are hard too.

Its the same with smoking -- he still smokes and this bothers me almost as much as the drinking. I have told him repeatedly that withdrawal from cigarettes is physically stressful and mentally taxing and he needs to take a couple of days off work to do it (I know because I've done it) and probably get some nicoteen replacement therapy. But its never important enough to actually get around to doing it.

This is what has really put him beyond the pale for me now. He knows how much pain and anxiety all this causes me. He knows its an absolute dealbreaker and its making my life a misery and he basically doesn't give a shit.

I do have close friends but apart from one person who is also going through a marriage breakup I haven't told a soul. I feel really ashamed and am phobic about talking about these things to people I know. Don't think I will be able to tell anyone until he has actually moved out and I basically have to tell them.

Op the resentment will eat you up

You'll do more and more to compensate for his shortcomings, because you'll have to. You become the person who does everything, keeps it all together and you'll resent him more and more.

So, if you think he might one day give it up, you have to ask him to leave. Why would he stop otherwise?
You may think you can't cope on your own, but you'll find it a whole lot easier than living with a drunk

He didn't keep his word now you need to keep yours and ask him to leave.

Either this will be the wake up call he needs to actually do sonething about his drinking in which case he can come back and your relationship can be saved or he will carry on drinking in which case at least you have your answer and there is nothing further you can do.

He is attempting to silence you by telling DD by being ratty and now sulking. You will end up policing him if he stays or else grinding yourself into silent fury.

Let him go. Only he can sort this.

Jeez I could have written your post word for word. You're at that dependency stage. Your dh is an alcoholic. My dh started off 3-4 cans, then 5-6, every night. Then a bottle of wine instead of the cans a couple of nights with extra beers in the weekend, up to 8 a night. It was a slippery slope over a 3 year period from the stage you are at now. He used to get so aggressive whilst on the drink. And then any little thing would set him off...for a drink.

I ended up leaving him. Mostly because I couldn't bare setting money poured down the drain when we really needed it elsewhere.

If I could share 1 thing that helped me move on from the inertia it was when I started to share, to talk about what was going on to those I trusted.

It moved from being my shame to his problem. Please share if you can, be really honest. Not to all and sundry- but to those you trust. It made a big big difference to me.

The other thing you can do is go to al anon; or google sober recovery forums, they have a good board for friends and family. That support can give you a lot of strength when you're feeling tired and worn down.

Please don't feel ashamed.

Squeegle I completely agree with you about my shame, his problem. It's seems to be a common problem that we make excuses and feel embarrassed and responsible for their behaviour.
It was so liberating when I finally realised I deserved to be treated better and that the behaviour was his choice not my fault.

Dolly I'm absolutely sure I can cope on my own. I'm lucky enough to be (reasonably) financially solvent with a good job and a pretty good support network and I have a home which I can afford to pay for without his financial support (which is pretty negligible anyway) so I am in a much stronger position than a lot of women who go through this. I've noticed recently that in some ways its easier to get things done when he's not around, life is calmer and more chilled in many ways and I can organize my life to my own satisfaction without having him sabotage things.

Its my DD I'm worried about....

Squeegle thanks. I know its irrational to be ashamed and that I've done nothing wrong. But I feel like a failure....

I would only remain worried about your DD if she kept getting exposed to her alcoholic dad at home. You have been profoundly affected by your dad's heavy drinking; she could well go the same way if you do not act. You are playing out all the roles that the non alcoholic parent does in such dysfunction; enabler, provoker, codependent to name but three.

You probably never thought that you yourself would marry a man with a drink problem but you did and that also happened partly because you saw all this at home. As another respondent rightly commented history has a nasty habit of repeating itself.

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents; what are you both teaching your DD here about relationships?.

Do you want her thinking that seeing this dysfunctional relationship play out in front of her eyes is "normal" and is how people behave in adult relationships?. Of course not. Alcoholism can also be learnt and it is very much a family disease. It does not just affect the alcoholic.

If anyone has failed here its he and he alone here. Not you and certainly not your child. Do not fall into the "sunken costs" fallacy trap when you start to think well I have been with him for x number of years; by thinking that you forget that the damage here has already been done.

Op counselling may help. I found it helped me a lot with the break down of my marriage and getting perspective on my exh behaviour.

What your daughter is learning is that she is not important; that you are not important. That neither of you are as important as daddy.

When she gets older, she will find relationships with boys who think she is not very important, much more comfortable than relationships with boys who treat her as if she is equally important.

She will find it harder to say "I want my husband to prioritise me and our children at weekends". She will wonder whether she is making a big deal about her partner drinking every night, and not being very engaged for a great deal of the weekend. She will feel that she is being unreasonable because she would like to have some nice, normal family time with her partner once in a while, instead of seeing him avoid outings or social engagements, while spending half Saturday afternoon and evening somewhere else.

Think about what lessons she is learning right now, despite her extreme youth. Think about how normal this will all be for her in a year, two years, three ......

Put a stop to it now.

He may respond well to a short sharp shock, pull himself together, reassess his priorities, do something about it, and become the best man he can. If you do nothing, this will continue forever.