Over reaction to an "off" day or justified concern over his behaviour?

[Throwingthisaway]

I hope you lovely people can help me to get my head on straight WRT to my boyfriend as I'm feeling confused and I'm finding it quite difficult to separate out my feelings.

A bit of background. I'm a 45 year old mum with 2 DCs. Their father isn't involved in any meaningful way. I had an unhappy marriage - well it was abusive really. He had a fairly heavy drinking problem, was unfaithful to me a lot, lots of intimidating behaviour and some physical abuse. This relationship has scarred me quite badly and I've spent long periods of my life being single. I find it very hard to trust men and sadly, this has often proved to be a justified fear as the relationships I have engaged in since my divorce have always ended unhappily, strangely usually down to jealousy on the part of the other person. I think this might be because I can seem quite "cold", in part due to my trust issues. I want to stress that I haven't had lots of men in and out of my children's' lives. There has only been 2 since my marriage ended 10 years ago, and I have never lived with anyone.

I've been dating my BF for 9 months. He is kind and generous, caring and good fun. Older than me by 10 years. We've been happy. He has met my children (they're teenagers now) and they like him. He's been having a lot of problems with his grown up son who has been involved in some illegal stuff. It's been awful, very stressful for him and very distressing and I have supported him as much as I can. So far, so good.

Last week one of my best friends got married. I was so excited for her and this day has been something that I've looked forward to for ages. The only slight fly in the ointment was that one of the guests at the wedding was an old flame of mine. When I say old flame, I mean person I shagged once, six years ago. We haven't spoken to one another in three years as we fell out over something completely unrelated to our very brief and unimportant one night stand. I took the decision to tell my BF about this man, as is didn't want him to find out while we were there and to be surprised/embarrassed (the old flame can be a bit on an arse once he's had a drink and has been inappropriate before). My friend was getting married on the Friday and my BF's son was due in court on Monday. When I found this out I said that he didn't have to come if it was too much for him, and that I'd be fine on my own. He insisted that he was fine and wanted to accompany me, and that he knew how important the day was to me. This was his first time meeting this circle of my friends.

He picked me up and was in a funny mood. I don't know how to describe it but I felt sort of on edge. I've never felt that in his company before. We got to the wedding and it was lovely, he met a few of my friends before the ceremony and everything seemed ok. After the ceremony we went to the line up and said hello to the bride and groom and the old flame (I hate calling him that it's so inaccurate but YKWIM) was standing just by them. I went to just say Hi, and turned around to introduce my BF and he'd walked off. I went over to him and he said something along the lines of "I'm not meeting that arsehole, bluster bluster" I was pretty shocked and a bit embarrassed really so I just sort of...well I just said "oh please don't be like that" and then I stayed with the BF while he got a drink at the bar. My other friends joined us and then the old flame came over. I tried to introduce them again casually and this time they shook hands. I thought that was all over and done with. Well it wasn't and the whole day was just dreadful. Every time the old flame came over to us - as he would because he is part of the friendship group that were there, my BF became sullen and downright bloody rude. It was mortifying. At dinner he said something nasty and barbed about my son who is going through the usual teenage phase of being a bit of a shit; he sighed, puffed, panted, complained and generally made it clear that he was not having a good time. We left early (!!) and sober (!!!) and when we got home I asked him what on earth was the matter with him. His response was that he wasn't expecting to "have him in my face all day".

This is getting really long. Well done for sticking with it.

I got into bed and didn't sleep a wink all night. I actually had a couple of little panic attacks actually - heart pounding, shaking etc. I did tell him that he'd ruined a very important day for me, and that he had acted immaturely. In the morning he cuddled up to me and asked if I was alright. I told him again that no, I'm not alright and that he'd acted appallingly. I drove home and he texted me that he was sorry and that he'd over reacted.

I can't let it go! Why can't I let it go? We've been "arguing" via text for two days. I say arguing but it's mainly him desperately texting me to illicit a response and me restating how hurt, disappointed and shocked I am by his behaviour. I don't know what to do. He wanted to meet me today (court case was postponed) but I just don't feel that I want to. He finally told me not to be silly (there aren't enough exclamation marks in the world) and that he wants to see me. He keeps asking what he can do to make it up to me, but he can't can he because the day is done and I'm never going to have that day again(I realise how childish this sounds BTW) and more than that, it shows a disregard for me that is shocking. I would never act that way in front of his friends regardless of any historical "romances" that may have occurred between him and anyone. But I'm not sure if I'm all tangled up with past abuses - my ex ruined every single important day during the years of our marriage, every birthday, Christmas, bank holiday, christening, wedding, everything was always spoiled so I'm wondering if I'm over reacting. He does know about my past, we were friends for a while before we started dating, and I've been sparingly honest with him - maybe too honest. I know he's under pressure and is stressed, but part of my feels that I've supported him so much and he couldn't even be fucked to smile and be polite on one day for me.

Or am I being precious?

No it's fine Nerf. I don't mind hearing both sides, as I said I'm not totally decided what I'm going to do yet anyway. I'll leave that decision until I've had a couple of days of decompression.

What do your RL friends make of him? Do you spend much time with your friends, as a couple? If not, and you decide not to dump him at this time, might be an idea to spend time with your friends and see how he behaves!

His comment about your son was quite nasty, did he say it so other people could easily hear? That would make it even worse IMO.

We spend lots of time with friends, mutual ones, my friends and his as well and everyone loves him. That's why this whole thing came as such a bloody shock!

The DS comment was made quietly to me, no one else heard it.

Thank you. Just didn't want to be missing some great red flag and posting against your views
I think the wedding could be a combination of pre court nerves, possible fear of social pressure (it's a wedding! You're a couple!) and meeting an ex (I did post to ask why you made them meet and shake hands I think I'd have just avoided that one). People can have shitty days - I had a complete mad moment a few weeks after meeting dh, stressed out, felt he was about to dump me, acted weird, but it's worked out fine. I think if the shitty days aren't a pattern, just a thing - ie can be a moody got, not is in appropriately jealous, then you have to weigh it all up.

What's his past? Have you met any ex partners?

Manipulative men can and do put on a good act to those in the outside world. Their true nature emerges when they are on their own.

He deliberately only meant for you to hear that comment re your son, that also undermines you as a parent to your boy as much as insulting a young person.

The last 8 months may have been good but do not let that cloud your own judgment on his overall character here.

Love your own self for a change I say and look at the Freedom Programme run by Womens Aid.

He was married for a long time. He has a decent relationship with his ex wife. He doesn't slag her off or anything and speaks about her with respect. He's had a couple of longer term relationships (been divorced about 7 years) and he doesn't say anything terrible about those women either, the relationships ended amicably as far as I can tell.

I wasn't bothered about them shaking hands but there was no way I could get away with not introducing them full stop. As I said we were a small group of friends in a large wedding party, it was inevitable that we were all going to be thrust together as none of us really knew anybody else.

I am listening to you Atilla. I promise.

It's often said that we should listen to what people say.
So far he has told you you were silly and that you are jealous of this woman.
There was no need for him to mention her and I bet you haven't mentioned MN to him.
I think his mask slipped when he said you were jealous. He intended (even if unconsciously) to make you jealous and put you on your back foot, reminding you that she's waiting for him to be available, should you not treat him properly.
You should also reflect back on her attitude. She wouln't behave like that if he didn't encourage her. It's nice for him to play you against each other, but he can't handle your exes. Remember something similar happened before with another ex, but he wasn't so sure of you then.

Of course he was trying to make you jealous, a common way to hook someone back in. He went to the one person he knew would provoke a re-action and distract from the wedding crap. He is trying his best not to own his ridiculous behaviour despite his contriteness. This latest attempt is as bad as his original behaviour at the wedding.

Meant to add, have a lovely holiday x

So out of all the people he could have confided in he chose her, was he expecting an unbiased and balanced critic, christ the pathological need that some men have to get their egos stroked.

So you have a few acts of twatishness in quick succession and now your thinking urgh here we go again, totally understandable. I think when we've had our fair share of crap relationships and have been hurt, we don't give ourselves enough credit that we have learnt from our past experiences. You acknowledged behaviour from him that you didn't like and you called him on it. This man has now received the 'Don't fuck with Throwingthisaway'' lesson (take note mate coz it won't be repeated and there is continuous assessment).

The honeymoon period is over, they aren't supposed to last (even though the bubble was kinda nice) and now your getting a more in-depth picture of who this man is, which includes the not so nice bits. As shitty as the past couple of days have been, you should congratulate yourself on the excellent way you've handled it (how you didn't get all Bianca Jackson on his arse at lunch was impressive).

I understand your apprehension but there's nothing in your OP that suggests that you can't handle this. If he turns out to be a complete twat, as opposed to the good guy with occasional twatishness lapses, you'll dump his arse.

I'm not saying you should continue dating this man but if you did, it wouldn't necessarily be a sign that you're repeating past mistakes.

Fuck that was long.

Hi OP, I am very new to MN and have only posted on a handful of issues so far but feel compelled to comment on your situation. I don't think I have ever read so much negativity projected into a fairly normal situation of a bf/dh having a bad day and behaving baldly. He has appologised over and over, begged to see you (this has even been described as somehow trying to manipulate you to his will - how about he really loves you and wants to see you and having tried the standard apology to no avail had a go at trying to make you jealous in a very amateurish way, that badly backfired !) from all your descriptions of his previous behaviour with your friends and his wonderful support for your mutual dv suffering friend, he sounds quite wonderful. I am truly shocked that a couple of episodes of bad behaviour in 9 months can be analysed as proof positive that you have lined up another misogynistic abuser with a control agenda ! Either these posters are married to complete paragons of virtue that never have a strop or have been so badly damaged by past relationships that they see a red flag at every action that a potential partner takes that is less than 100% considerate of all your emotional needs. As you well know, in the rw there is no perfect relationship, owing to the human nature of two people, usually it's based on love, do you love him, does he make you happy 90% of the time, if so the other ten percent is compromise on issues that don't piss you off too much .My advice is turn to your rl friends, do they like him or do they find him a creepy manipulater ? but for god sake don't ask your recently divorced mate who's dh has just shackled up with his 21yr old secretary, as you may not get a balanced answer

Sadly, friends do not usually offer the most reliable advice. For one they are too invested and may not want to upset you, then they tend to see the nice him. But it would be interesting to know what they thought about his "strop" at the wedding.

Sadly, I do have experience of someone who managed to turn ordinary situations into stressful ones.

It looks like he needed his ego stroked at the wedding and the strop was possibly because the OP didn't stay by him all the time, trying to bring him around. I know people who do this and they are not nice.

It's not a one event or one strop. He has done it before, only not as bad. And then there's his behaviour afterwards. It's not the apologies. It's how he didn't apologise until much later and by text, while at the same time telling the OP not to be silly. That is not an apology and that is not contrite.

What is the definition of abuse?
He sounds potentially emotionally abusive.

It's true that no relationship is perfect and nobody is perfect. Each of us are prepared to put up with different faults. Throw has already been with someone who acted like this, as have I, and I can understand how she may not be prepared to put up with it again.

It's up to Throw whether to give him the benefit of the doubt for now, or consider if she can live with such needy, dismissive and self centred behaviour in the future.
Because, very rarely there are one offs. And when it's not the first time, then it's hardly a one off.

He orchestrated that bitchy comment about your son. It was designed to hurt you. From the moment he bent in to whisper.

His 'Susan' comment is the same.

I think somehow he feeds off distress of others, which is why he got so involved with the friend in an abusive relationship.

He's showing you who he is, and it's not pretty.

Use this time away to detach. This relationship isn't going to work out.

I am compelled to comment again and I have never commented on this kind of thing on MN before. I agree with people who say 'Susan' is calculated and he IS an abusive man. It rings so true with MY experience of an abuser. I am lucky to have only one in my history. But I do know signs now and he is displaying them. I sincerely doubt it is a one-off aberration.

I think your confidence has been knocked, not only by this blokes twatishness but also by your initial reaction to the incidents. Your initial muted response to the shock of the incidents, probably made you question your ability to tackle possible future situations. However, your post incident handling has been pretty damn good and I hope you're encouraged by this.

He's been a dick and immature and it must be dissapointing to see this side to someone who is a supposed grown-up and who you've invested in. However, I think it's too early to LTB, given how well you've handled it so far. Once you've had the time and space to calm down, you can have a frank conversation about his behaviour and you'll be in a better position to asses if this man is worth any more of your time.

Enjoy your holiday,

I used to think how we handled such behaviour was important.
It is to some extent, but the response we get is crucial. In this case, not only it was not a one off, but many aspects of his response suggest that he is not exactly a good one

I'm not sure the Susan thing is that bad - if he happened to bump into her, I can see how he could easily enough end up telling her his worries without thinking too much about the history.

I'm on the fence in terms of what you should do - I'd be inclined to give him a chance but to be on the alert to see whether this is the beginning of a pattern or just an aberration. But in the meantime, taking a few days holiday and not thinking about it for a bit is a fantastic idea - hope you've a lovely time!

I can't call this one. I haven't got the confidence many other posters have to say 'yes, abusive' or 'no, not abusive', or LTB/don't LTB.

It seems to me putting it all to one side until after the holiday is a really good idea. So what bibliomania said, basically.

I reckon he didn't even SPEAK to 'Susan'. He just said that to annoy you. the give me time and I'd get over it. is AGAIN placing the blame for HIS bad behaviour and HIS shitty comment at YOUR feet.

Get over WHAT exactly? his hideous rudeness to your friends? his ruining YOUR nice day? his revoltingly orchestrated comment to you about YOUR son? when HIS is in shit up to his sodding neck?

He wants to paint your son as a monster to make himself feel better about what having a son like his says about HIM.

I would NOT give him a chance. This is a few months in and the writing is well and truly on the wall here. he's supposed to be making an effort, not tearing your life to pieces from a multitude of angles.

Whether he is or is not abusive is not the question here, it's whether his behaviour or treatment of you is acceptable. On that, there is no doubt.

he can't even see this and thinks if he sends a few texts that YOU will get over it, so that HE can go back to how he is (and worse). I think he is testing the water and am confident that he will get worse.

In any event, if you accept this now, where is the incentive for him to STOP behaving like this?

Go on your break. Don't contact him at all and don't even have your phone on, really look at who he really is and what you will have to 'look forward to' if you take this guy back.

He is never going to see the errors of his ways if you just accept what he's done. I don't think he'll change, but by showing him consequences, it at least gives him the opportunity to stop being a twat.

Another one on the fence here. These could be the signs of an abusive man, or just someone who knows he has fucked up and put his foot in it big time while trying to apologise. Your call OP!

His haste in wanting the OP to forgive him whilst not properly addressing his behaviour is not confidence inducing but If the OP doesn't LTB immediately, I'm confident she will if he pulls any more crap.

how about just asking your real life friends what they want instead of a bunch of amateur psychologists with serious anti men issues. (for understandable reasons) for my part I would say 'a good heart is hard to find ' and whilst it's 'better to live alone than miserable and unhappy in an abusive relationship, it is definitely a lot more fun to share your life with someone who is kind, considerate and understanding but who fucks up sometimes, because we are all human and don't necessarily analyze every move we make, but sometimes screw up, especially when we love someone loads and know we have behaved badly. ! We can all write our advice, but ultimately it will always be skewed. those who have been screwed over, abused, or simply left disappointed, will see red flags every where. Those who have had positive relationships will say chill and enjoy your relationship with someone who seems to us, a good guy at the end of it all, you will lie by the pool and know in your heart what you want. Go with that.

Ask friends what they want?
really?