Has anyone heard of Alexithymia or am I cluching at straws?

[purpleapple1234]

Me and DH have always had arguements. Been married for 5 years and not sure that we every should have as we have such a different way of communicating. I have a very votaile temper and am very empathic, but he is a defensive aggressive arse who will can not have a proper discussion (We have just had another arguement - can you tell?).

Anyway, while 'cooling down' I have realised that he just does not register emotion when we discuss emotive topics. He can not understand that rudeness, sarcasm, irritation or contempt are inappropriate when talking to me about something I am clearly upset about or even to DD (aged 2!!!).
He makes "jokes" which are nasty, uses a contemptious tone of voice and generally shows no caring of things that are clearly upsetting. And does not understand why this upset me so much.

So a simple discussion about food turns into a horrible world-war-3-type argument. I am no way innocent and blameless in this, as my temper is horrible, but is definitely provoked by his unkind way of talking to me.

Anyway, thinking about this I came up with the theory that either he is a complete nasty arse OR that he is missing some sort of link between words and feelings (either what caused them or their effect). He is kind man in general, but has big problems expressing how he feels and gets angry instead.

While investigating on the internet (as you do) I came across alexithymia. Is anyone else together with someone like this? Am I just too sensitive (one of his theories)? Or is alexithymia a viable explanation that I can work with?

Damn - no edit function. "Clutching" is obviously how it is spelt

Aspergers?

I honestly feel like I could have written this post. This is by far the weirdest thing that's happened to me on MN so far. You have just described our relationship and our WW3 argument this evening. DP is that you? (I know it's not, he would never have the brainwave to think past his strop and consider what the cause of our issue could be...)

I am now Googling alexithymia. I'll get back to you

difficulty in distinguishing and appreciating the emotions of others, which is thought to lead to unempathic and ineffective emotional responding

Yes, that's DP all right!

Not sure if I have all the info for a full picture but sounds like classic Aspergers to me (my son has Aspergers).

Was your argument about milk versus food for a 2 year old? Then it would be really spooky!

I found the info on alexithymia on wikipedia and it says that 10% of the population has it. I don't like giving different personality aspects a label, but if it helps me understand (and maybe, just maybe him as well - although very likely not) that we have different brain mechanisms regarding on communication, perhaps we will argue less often and less viciously.

Basically, it will help me handle him so that our 'discussion' don't end up with me hiding from the neighbours and worrying about the effect on DD.

Aspergers? I'll have to do more research on the internet.

Here is a link, hope it is of some help.

www.autism.org.uk/About-autism/Autism-and-Asperger-syndrome-an-introduction/What-is-Asperger-syndrome.aspx

That's all very well but what steps will he take to deal with arguments? Because labelling him almost gives him carte Blanche to be an arse.

Is he like this with other people?

No - only with me. Which, of course, really upsets me because he does know how to act, but chooses not to with me. Or at least that is how I see it. So if I know (I don't have to tell him) that his brain works in a different way then I can act differently.

Or try to with my temper. Honestly, we shouldn't have got together. But we are and have a child, so that is why I want to try to sort things out.

If he behaves differently with other people then it's a choice he makes with you, not a syndrome, disorder or condition I'm afraid.

Was your argument about milk versus food for a 2 year old?

No, it was about food though! He had cooked dinner when my mother had already cooked. I asked why, he got aggressively defensive. To which I got aggressively aggressive. I need to learn to control my temper - I know that and I do try. He doesn't seem to notice (or care) about his though.

Although I don't think his is a case of asperges. As far as I can tell he only behaves like this with me and his immediate family.

OP, I hope you can work out what's best!

He's making a choice to treat you like shit.

Alexithymia is like dysthymia in that it is a trans affective symptom. It can be a feature of many things or exist on its own.

It isn't something that can just be Dx from a subjective experience.

And it wouldn't be person dependent either.

Alexithymia exists but is not widely studied by psychologists. it is not the same as aspergers (see academic paper here sites.google.com/site/geoffbirdlab/CookBrewerShahBirdinpress.pdf?attredirects=0)

Re this part of your comment:-
"Honestly, we shouldn't have got together. But we are and have a child, so that is why I want to try to sort things out.

Sorting things out is only possible if the other party is interested and he is clearly not. You should not have to demean or lower yourself further by handling him (with kid gloves); he is a grown man after all. He also does not act like this in front of other people so he can control his anger; he just instead chooses to lash out at you instead.

And yes you should not be together at all. The child should not be used as glue to bind you both together, you cannot burden a child with such a choice that you made. Staying together for the sake of the child never works out well and the child will not thank you for doing so either. Do you really want to show your child that this dysfunctional relationship of yours is "normal". It clearly is not.

And why does your man act like this; partly because he can. This is how abusive men operate.

Eric I see completely what you are saying, but it is only with me and DD that he gets into emotional situations.

I have read the link to aspergers -thanks! I am not sure if it describes DH. One thing that I have a query about is use of language. DH is very very gifted in terms of language. English is not his first language, but he is almost beyond fluent and understands it a native level - without any formal education. But - and this is interesting to me - can not translate between his own language and english. I have been learning his language and need to know the exact meaning of words and the grammar, but he has no knowledge or interest and is confused by it, but is exceptional in both languages without being able to link the two. Is that significant in anyway, or a red herring?

I think an analogy would be if your DH always got to work and other appointments on time, but then always kept you waiting, you would not be seeing it as an aspect of his personality, you would see it as rude to you.

What do you mean by emotional situations? I reckon that he doesn't respect you hence the contempt etc.

Alexithymia translates as 'no words for feelings' - a person with it simply has no means of recognising and describing their emotions - happy, sad, angry - or the emotions those around them might be feeling. They're baffled and bewildered in their monotone landscape - not aggressively defensive.

The thing about not being able to link the two languages...
Are you sure he's not just an arse who can't be bothered to talk to you / help you when you have questions?

Here's an online questionnaire for alexithingie - www.alexithymia.us/index.html

and, here's one for AS: aspergerstest.net/aq-test/

Neither of which are diagnostic, but, might be good to point you in the right direction. Think of them like the Glasgow Score for picking up PND, not a diagnosis, but, might be an indicator that something needs investigating.

What I would say is that some AS behaviours can look like ArSe behaviours. So, don't automatically assume you have to LTB.

Just wondering if the issue with languages is that he cannot find a literal translation between the 2 languages?

Does he excel at other things/have very specific interests/any issues with changes in routine?

People with Aspergers tend to be very literal and visual. When my son and I argue or if I get frustrated because he is seeming to be an arse (which he sometimes is ) or obstinate, if I raise my voice first or look angry it quickly escalates because my tone had changed and my facial expressions are angry so this heightens the response in him. I just wondered if this happens in your situation?

I'm not saying your DP has Aspergers, just that what you have described sounds like it. Whether it's that or alexithymia, you would probably need a professional assessment. Sorry that I can't help much more.

But the point is that the discussion about the food wasn't an 'emotional situation' - or shouldn't have been. Just a normal discussion between husband and wife, family stuff.

He's just like this with YOU. 'So a simple discussion about food turns into a horrible world-war-3-type argument.' - and other, simple discussions about the Greatorex account or the best filing system to use or the correct tyre pressure (or whatever) at work don't turn into a horrible WW3 tpye argument, because out of the house he can control his vile temper and treat others with respect and politeness.

'He makes "jokes" which are nasty, uses a contemptious tone of voice' - and that's all because you are discussing 'emotional things' and he has some sort of disorder about that, yes? No it isn't. It's just nasty. And if he did it out of the house, with colleagues or to the bloke on the bus, he'd get a fat lip.

I think you are clutching at straws and the only 'ism' involved here is nasty bullying inadequate bastard-ism.

I'll try to explain what it is like to have alexithymia. Mostly I am perfectly aware that I am feeling an emotion of some sort, I just would have great difficulty in being able to convert that feeling into actually words, in order to describe how I was feeling to another person. this is despite having above average intelligence and a wide vocabulary.

In my case I also struggle with other types of feeling e.g pain. I can't describe different type of pain at all and wouldn't be able to answer whether a pain was sharp or achy for example. To me they are all the same so I can not distinguish. Also it appears to not be isolated to just feelings either, as I struggle to be able to find the right words to describe an idea or object even though I know what I mean in my head, if that makes sense. However after some time I can usually manage this, which makes written communication a lot easier for me than verbal, as I have that thinking time. It is not often the case with emotions though, unfortunately.

When it comes to other people and working out their emotions, I do find that difficult. I tend to have to use a logical process and contextual clues. Its not automatic and I find it difficult. I don't always get it right though so it is easier for some one to just tell me so I can respond appropriately.

From what you have written about your DH stands out to me as being similar though. Especially as you say he is only like this with you/your DD. for me I'm equally as clueless about other peoples emotions, regardless of who they are or if I like them or not. Only my own DC I find easier slightly but that's probably done to having spent increased length of time with them and still then I'm wrong sometimes, but then I will happily admit my mistakes. It doesn't seem like your DH would do the same, sorry op.