hes hiding/ lying about money.. again

[beanynamechange]

obvious name change, im a regular, but never been to relationships..

this is bloody long..

my dp is amazing, kind, loving, an attentive father, and shit with money.

when i met him he was 2500£ in debt, and i bailed him out with my savings, and he paid me back gradually instead of the high interest rates he was battling..
we had our dd, and he was still spending money like it grew on trees, he gradually realised after i had bought everything for our dd with no contribution from him (i was earning £800 pcm, him closer to £1400..) that something had to change. he was amazing about it, decided he needed my help, fine, i said i would.

the best way i could think of to help him without actually feeling like his mother was to go through his bank statements and show him where he was going wrong e.g. coffee 2-3x a day from starbucks... fine as a once a week treat but several times a day? also set up paper statements to make him accountable at the end of the month.. it worked and everything was dandy

we agreed he could turn off his paper statements for the christmas period, i had been with him 3 years, been doing super well with money for 1.5-2 years at this point.. and they never got turned back on. i didnt doubt him, he had done so well and was providing for us as a family as we decided i wouldnt go back to work after having dd..

and now its all gone tits up :(
ive always had all of our passwords etc saved in random places incase we ever forgot, and i thought that i would turn his paper statements back on hes out tonight with the view of showing him how amazing hes done by himself at the end of the month, and that im glad hes providing hes always been a bit worried about not providing for me and dd, and now he is

i got a shock.

hes got a credit card still running with over £1000 on, that he told me he shut down and had cleared the balance on.
hes taken £200 cash out in the last month (we agreed no cash, for either of us, as its too easy to spend on crap and then not remember.. i have no idea what he could have bought with that..)
a direct debit out to hitachi capital for varing amounts, i thought it could be our car finance but thats a different dd name?
hes got £34 left in his account to last until his payday.. end of the month
he has no money in a savings account that we agreed we would keep £100 in (each, as a bumper incase we needed it, seperate from our isas..)
and i cant access his isa because hes changed the password, im worried. really bloody worried.

please tell me this is okay?
please tell me im worrying over nothing and theres a reasonable explanation?

im not LTB.. i love him, i hate how he is with money..

Sorry, it doesn't sound like things are ok. You need to have a serious conversation with him.

i think im more concerned about him lying/ pretending there isnt a problem, but im not sure if im expecting too much?
e.g.- i had maccyds for lunch the other day, not an everyday/ every week occurance, but i fancied it and could afford it. chatting in the evening and mentioned it, in a jokey 'it was amazing, you should be jelous ;)' kinda way, he said he was starving as he didnt have breakfast or lunch.. no probs, chucked dinner on..... his bank statements said that he had a coffee and subway that day.. i mean, why?! why not just tell me?! i dont have a problem with it, we always agreed in moderation treats are fine, surely i gave him a perfect 'in' to mention subway? eurgh :(

You have got to speak to him ASAP

Of course things aren't OK. He's lying to you, and messing up your finances as he does it. You need a VERY frank conversation.

Ultimately, you aren't his mother, you can't control him - he needs to get a grip himself, or you will spend the rest of your life like this.

Tbh, I just want him to come home, but we have just moved church and he's out with some guys who he's been friendly with.. I don't want to bugger it up for him by demanding him home...
You know when you can't stop thinking about something? Eurgh

Any help with what I actually want him to do?
He hasent really lied to me.. Just not mentioned when he clearly had a chance/ would be approriate..
E.g asked if he had enough money to go out tonight (I would have given him some happily if not) and he said yes.. But he doesn't :S

He has lied to you though, hasn't he? He lied about the not eating thing, and he's lied by omission. And he seems to find it quite easy to lie to you.

As to what you can do - I don't know. But it isn't OK, I can't tell you that.

Yes he has lied to you.

'he said he was starving as he didnt have breakfast or lunch.. no probs, chucked dinner on..... his bank statements said that he had a coffee and subway that day.'

Lies. To your face. Not even caught in a trap lying in a panic. Easy happy conversational LIES LIES LIES just as natural as breathing.

The money stuff is awful. There is unlikely to be anything left in that ISA. And after all the effort YOU have put in...I'd say it's unlikely he will change.

But worse is that lie, so simple, so meaningless, about a subway. It tells you everything you need to know (and when you confront him he will tell you it was for a friend, and yes he will be lying about that too).

There are sins of omission as well as commission. His intent was to deceive.

But - good people I know who have been in debt, still struggle to open the mail. It is a real fear with them.
I think he is burying his head in the sand and hoping it will go away. Unfortunately this may be his pattern to deal with other crisis in his life.

You need a frank conversation, and he needs to understand why he does this. Counselling might be in order (the church may even be able to help- but be careful).

If 'LTB' is off the table I'm sorry but this is how it's going to be for the rest of the foreseeable. Always wondering where the cash has gone, never two pennies to rub together and asking yourself what else he's lying about. And where's he when you're breaking your heart? Pissing more money you haven't got up the wall.

You don't get anyone's respect by keep bailing them out, turning a blind eye and wetly talking about 'love'. Quite the reverse.

My debit card payments rarely show on my statements on the actual day I made them. They are usually a few days out.

So he might not have been lying about the subway etc.

He is clearly a massive tool about money anyway, but I just wanted to throw that bit in.

If it were me I would insist on taking over the finances - end of. His salary paid into an account to which he doesn't have access. Cut his credit card in half. Of course there's nothing to stop him applying for another card but I think you need to take control, lay down the law and set some very firm boundaries before you find that you are all in danger of losing everything. I've been there, and my STBXH brought myself and the DCs close to losing our home. Not good.

I don't know if I can keep doing this, we have a 16mo dd and I'm 29weeks pregnant, I don't want to leave him, I have nowhere to go, and I love him! But the stress is unbelievable, he gives me money every month whih is then mine- I run the house, myself, dd etc on it, it's enough and he will never complain about what I've used it for etc, but I feel like he just wastes his money, when I scrimp all month to be able to put something into savings (seperate accounts for everything bar rent and bills, which he pays)
He's coming home now, wish me luck :/

I might just start by asking him if he's got the credit card account still running he said he closed, I think if he fesses up it will be a very different conversation to if he says no and I go on to pull up the statements from last month :(

OP, do you think he could be gambling?

No chance of gambling, it's just not like him.
I feel a bit stupid actually, all of this going on whilst I'm struggling to make my very small allowance stretch to give us a nicer time, whilst he spends whatever he wants on himself.

However, I've been stupid. I've left my mn account logged in on my laptop, which is in the living room, which is where he's sleeping. He doesn't know my name change, if I changed my password on my phone and he tried to refresh my account on my laptop would it ask him for the new password?

Why are you worried about him reading this? He's the one in the wrong.

Hi beany, you have done nothing wrong. He is lying by omission. If you want to stay together I suggest you take control of the money and give him so much per week. However that's a lot for you to take on and he may not want it.

Have you spoken to him yet?

I suggest you get his credit file, he has to obtain it, noddle is free. To find out exactly what he owes to whom. It will show when he took out credit and how much. Instead of using your money I would want him to pay his debts from his own monthly spending money.

This would be a deal breaker for me. I understand your worry.

i think you need to step back a bit - he gives you money so the household stuff is paid etc. and your complaining hes spending his own money and wasting it? how controlling is that? if everything is paid for it is his money to waste.

as for someone else saying get his salary paid into an account he cant get to - really? fuck right off! imagine if a woman came onto here and said my OH has told me to pay my salary into an account that im not going to get access to - there would be a riot and calls of LTB and financial abuse...

'how controlling is that?'

When someone has racked up huge debts, spends money like water and gambles family money then it's not 'controlling' for the other partner to put a gastric band on the finances, it's basic survival Having said that, that degree of micro-management driven by mistrust is not a healthy way to live and the OP would probably be far better off leaving him to go bankrupt somewhere in his own time.

OP my exh was like this before we were married. He was in debt and when I found out I helped him clear the slate and I took control of all the finances. I kept a tight reign of the money and was completely in charge of the spending and thank god I did because fast forward 6 and a half years since we divorced he is up to his eyes in debt.

It doesn't matter how much money they have they will spend it and more. Within 10 months he had an inheritance and his share of the house when I bought him out, so tens of thousands of pounds and within just over a year it had all gone and he is up to his eyes in debt with nothing to show for it.

The recuperation on me and my children to his selfish spending is affecting us badly to this day, which is another thread that I have toyed with posting for advice. I have had debt collectors, and other creditors ringing and even knocking on my door looking to find him and this is nearly 7 years after our divorce!

OP don't bury your head - take control of the finances now. The bigger picture is he could make you homeless with his selfish reckless spending.

That's the thing, I don't want to take control of all of his money, and I've got no problems with treats every now and again, which is what I class buying lunch as..
However, money is very tight for us, we are saving for a wedding, a mortgage and then he's said he wants a motorbike- I've said fine! No probs! Because we will have invested in us.. We will have spend out the two biggest chunks of money we probably ever will, then saving for something you want instead of something you 'need' is perfect, something to aim for..
But that's not happening. I don't want to steal all of his money, and I don't care if he spends some of it on what he wants.. But when im saving so hard for our future that I only have a haircut once a year it's a pretty hard kick in the face?

You're planning to marry him? How can you marry someone you can't trust?

He's reckless with money and is prepared to lie to further his recklessness. You're going to have to let go of the notion that he doesn't realise what he's spending, as he'd rather take out credit than curb it.

Firstly, demand that he tells you everything and then independently verify whatever he says (credit reports for him and yourself, statements etc). It would be extremely unwise entrusting any kind of financial responsibility to this man for the foreseeable future and it would be prudent, to separate your finances and generate your own income to protect you and your children's futures.

Moving forward, what kind of relationship do you want with this man and what boundaries are you prepared to erect and police, to that end. Are you co-dependant? Was bailing him out and policing his spending part of the co-dependant role you assumed early on in this relationship? Do you really want to continue being a financial parent, dishing out spending money so he doesn't blow it all on ice creams? Is he likely to become resentful that you'll be controlling money 'he earns'?

Aside from the immediate financial fall out from his recklessness, he's going to have to get to the bottom of why he does what he does and you can't do that for him. However, this type of behaviour is insidious and it will be very difficult ring fencing the rest of your relationship from this if you believe honesty and respect are part of the foundations on which your relationship is built.

I love him, he's an amazing person, and he is providing, but he's also being selfish, and then denying it. I don't want to take responsibility for his money, I want him to do it. But what can I do if he doesn't?
I can't afford to go back to work, i have no qualifications really and had a basic minimum wage job before dd, I would have to pay 2x childcare costs, I would be making a loss..

You want to marry someone like this man?. Honestly do you really want to do your bit as well to be the architect of your own destruction?.

You may well want to invest in the whole concept of us re you and he but he loves money far more than you and will continue to drag you down with him.

What did you learn about relationships when growing up, did you see similar back then?.

Where is your own common sense not just to say self respect and esteem here; is this really what you want to teach your own children about relationships?.

All you have done throughout is enable him; all that did was give you a false sense of control. Doing that too has not helped him or you for that matter. Continuing to do so will not help either.

What you want and what is possible if you remain in a relationship with this man are continents apart. He's a spender and you're a saver and as much as you love this man, your financial incompatibility will be you and your children's ruin. He's shown you who he is, pay attention.

Do not marry this man!