hes hiding/ lying about money.. again

[beanynamechange]

obvious name change, im a regular, but never been to relationships..

this is bloody long..

my dp is amazing, kind, loving, an attentive father, and shit with money.

when i met him he was 2500£ in debt, and i bailed him out with my savings, and he paid me back gradually instead of the high interest rates he was battling..
we had our dd, and he was still spending money like it grew on trees, he gradually realised after i had bought everything for our dd with no contribution from him (i was earning £800 pcm, him closer to £1400..) that something had to change. he was amazing about it, decided he needed my help, fine, i said i would.

the best way i could think of to help him without actually feeling like his mother was to go through his bank statements and show him where he was going wrong e.g. coffee 2-3x a day from starbucks... fine as a once a week treat but several times a day? also set up paper statements to make him accountable at the end of the month.. it worked and everything was dandy

we agreed he could turn off his paper statements for the christmas period, i had been with him 3 years, been doing super well with money for 1.5-2 years at this point.. and they never got turned back on. i didnt doubt him, he had done so well and was providing for us as a family as we decided i wouldnt go back to work after having dd..

and now its all gone tits up :(
ive always had all of our passwords etc saved in random places incase we ever forgot, and i thought that i would turn his paper statements back on hes out tonight with the view of showing him how amazing hes done by himself at the end of the month, and that im glad hes providing hes always been a bit worried about not providing for me and dd, and now he is

i got a shock.

hes got a credit card still running with over £1000 on, that he told me he shut down and had cleared the balance on.
hes taken £200 cash out in the last month (we agreed no cash, for either of us, as its too easy to spend on crap and then not remember.. i have no idea what he could have bought with that..)
a direct debit out to hitachi capital for varing amounts, i thought it could be our car finance but thats a different dd name?
hes got £34 left in his account to last until his payday.. end of the month
he has no money in a savings account that we agreed we would keep £100 in (each, as a bumper incase we needed it, seperate from our isas..)
and i cant access his isa because hes changed the password, im worried. really bloody worried.

please tell me this is okay?
please tell me im worrying over nothing and theres a reasonable explanation?

im not LTB.. i love him, i hate how he is with money..

Lying is obviously a big issue and one that should not be ignored.

However, I wonder, how much are you saving for the wedding?

If I was in your shoes, I wouldn't be saving for a wedding right now.

In fact, I am in your shoes, kinda. DP proposed to me last year. But we are currently rebuilding our careers (we both changed career not so long ago) and money is very very tight while we do it.

I can relate to the no haircut thing - mine's down to my bum, nearly! It's the longest it's ever been, because haircuts have gone the way of many other luxuries.

However, we are not saving for a wedding. We will start doing that when we have some money to. Personally I would resent being made to save for an expensive wedding when I'm this skint, could this be part of the problem? (Although granted I would say something about it, not do it and resent it or lie about money, that's an important difference!)

Are you aiming for the big wedding day? If so, maybe you should wait till you're in a better position to afford it, and are also better sure about your relationship?

As a compromise, DP and I have written wills, to at least give each other and the DCs some legal protection should anything awful happen to us before we get married.

"we had our dd, and he was still spending money like it grew on trees, he gradually realised after i had bought everything for our dd with no contribution from him (i was earning £800 pcm, him closer to £1400..) that something had to change. he was amazing about it, decided he needed my help, fine, i said i would."

There is nothing amazing about a man who let you scrimp and save to provide for your daughter while he pissed his larger income up the wall. That's not kind or loving or anything remotely positive.

You'd be much better off as a single parent on IS with him making his agreed contributions via the CSA.

Don't fall into the trap of being his mother. I know you said you're trying very hard not to be but that's exactly the roles you've taken in your relationship.

OP what on earth do you mean you don't want to take control of the finances - you have to before you and your DC's end up homeless and penniless because that the reality. He's proved he can't manage money. I don't believe in LTB but you need to wake up to the fact that this man, like many people just do not put a reign on spending and will spend without thought of consequences.

You are not being financially abusive to him with money you are managing/budgeting it to ensure you have food and a roof over your heads.

I confronted him, and he seems genuinly baffled as to how it's happened, I genuinly think he has a problem- but this is a bit if a bizarre thing to need help for.. I doubt any is available?

We are going to sit down tonight and go through his income, and what we both need a month and set him an allowance, hen put the rest into my savings account.

We are also going to look at potential career options, possibly involving study before hand- so I can study whilst kids are at home ready for a job when they go to school.. But what do I want to do? Eurgh. My brain hurts.

Did he give you the password for his ISA?

Just throwing another thing in to the pot here...could be way off...

Does he have any other issues? Aside from the spending? Compulsive spending, getting out credit cards you cant afford, reckless purchases etc...it can be a genuine addiction issue, and is very common in people with bipolar disorder.

I am not making excuses for him, but just wondered of he is otherwise a good, trustworthy person? Or if there are any other behaviours that are secretive, reckless or generally worrying?

The magic cure for 'baffled' is 'information'. If he's genuinely baffled where the money goes then he keeps a spending diary, checks his accounts and he'll quickly work out what's happening... and so will you. There is no magic cure however for 'can't be arsed to take this seriously but if I look pathetic she'll shut up about it'...

He's used 400 of it to pay off some of the mystery credit card (last month), and put the rest of it into our mortgage save to buy account which we can't get the money out of without closing it and facing penalties.. He thought it was a good idea as he didn't know how isas worked? :/

Not really any other issues, he's just irresponsible with money..

The budget for our wedding is 1500.. Not going for the big white wedding! Although we're doing a lot of it ourselves to keep costs down..

I just want someone with the same mindset with money as me! Which is clearly asking a lot.. If you don't have it, don't spend it, if you have it either spend it for instant gratification or save it for a bigger reward..

So lose Mr Baffled and find someone with the same mindset... And I say that in all seriousness because this is genuinely as good as it gets. Right now the attitude towards him that I'm getting from your posts is a kind of sentimental chastisement. Like finding a puppy sitting in its own widdle. Cute but stupid. Doesn't know how ISAs work. Ah bless.

Does he hold down a job? Can he add up? Work a calculator?

I think you need to take control of the finances and give him an allowance. What your dad did to your mum is totally different to what you're going to need to do. You're not going to control the money and not keep him in the loop. It's going to be a transparent financial situation because you're better at it. I do all the paperwork for our family because I'm more patient and better at it, we just have different strengths.

A friend of mine does the financial stuff (or "household management") with her DH. He earns a LOT of money yet never seemed to have anything left at the end of the month. He was whittling it away on little things.

She took it over and transfers the money when he's paid (auto transfers I believe) into a separate account and leaves him with spending money. It's a lot of spending money (to me, a not-so-rich person) so he can do whatever he wants and no longer risk losing the house.

If your fiance is okay with you TOTALLY taking over the reins (maybe having a "family meeting" once a month to check things out) then it might be the best option, if you're okay with it. It's how a lot of stay-at-home mums do it.

Honestly, it's not controlling for you to take this over. It's usually better (in my opinion) if one person handles the bills anyway (with a view that the other person can ask or check whenever - we have a calendar and I tick the bills when paid). Then you know what is paid and he just needs to worry about earning the money. You know what you have to spend on groceries and other household things and as the "household manager" that's what you need to know.

It'll be okay :)

This situation is not irrecoverable but you need total honesty and disclosure, and you will have to accept, at least for the time being, that you will be the one with your foot on the brake. People can change their behaviour, most especially if they're made to understand what they are jeopardising by not changing. Have you seen his credit-reports yet? And don't make any threats if you're not prepared to follow through.

Just to add to my parents story, every time a new big debt has been discovered my dad has apparently come clean, chopped up credit cards, budgeted etc etc... It still doesn't change and happens again. I don't know how my wonderful mum can live with not knowing what's going on behind the scenes with his spending.

Like I said, this situation had already happened once and he hasn't changed, now he has another chance. Next time?

I hope I am utterly wrong. I honestly honestly do for the sake of you your dd.

Sorry not sure if I made up the bit about you having a dd?

What is he actually spending it on? You don't mount up big debts through a few sandwiches and cappuccinos a week.

What concerns me here is the easy lying, and simply reneging on agreements that you'd made. We agreed this, but he did that.

And his response when you challenge him. Is he embarrassed, guilty, or ashamed? You only said he seemed 'genuinely baffled'. As if he's no idea how he managed to renege on your agreements, or where the Hitachi cap direct debit came from...they all just happened?

How can he not have spotted that he hadn't bought anything for his own daughter, until his gradual realisation that 'something had to change'. If I've read your OP correctly, it didn't cross his mind to buy anything for her, really, did it... :(

Fgs don't get a mortgage with him.

I don't really understand the 'baffled' bit.

You said last night -
'I might just start by asking him if he's got the credit card account still running he said he closed, I think if he fesses up it will be a very different conversation to if he says no and I go on to pull up the statements from last month'

• so you asked, he fessed up? And when you said 'But you told me you closed it - why did you lie, especially about something so important and financial?' he replied 'Dunno, I'm baffled'?

You- 'You told me you didn't eat yesterday, but your statement shows you went to subway?'

Him- 'I'm baffled!'

You. Are. Being. Taken. For. A. Ride.

I'm sorry I don't believe he's put the money into your mortgage save to buy account. I think he's lying.

Adding my story here to give you a glimpse of a future with someone like your oh.
My mil died last year. This was after 39 years with fil who has mounted up debt on...nothing, frankly there is absolutely nothing to show for it except for her misery, anguish,worry, and nearly losing the house several times.

Bailing him out time & time & time again, year in year out after finding out accidentally several times about secret credit cards & loans.

When she died, she had put aside a few quid here & there to pay for her own funeral as she knew she would have to pay it as fil had no money.

A month after she died he bought himself a fish tank for £600, . No idea where he got the money from.

My dh manages all of fil s financial matters now as he is a fuckwit.cannot be trusted.

Giving him an allowance from his own salary is just awful. If a man was taking his wifes salary and giving her pocket money he would be called all sorts and she would be told to kick him out.

You need to earn and childcare is a joint cost. Its expensive for the first few years but its an investment in the future. Dont under estimate the pressure a sole family earner faces and its always better to have your own earning power should anything happen.

Op I dont think you are really reading the excellent advise you have been given on this thread. Your DP is a deceitful lying man who does not respect you. Im sorry but a life with him will be a hard one.

Another thing OP, if you marry him, for God's sake, don't have a joint account with him. If you do, and he gets a higher and higher overdraft limit, and uses it, then, when you split up, half that debt will be down to you to repay.

Unfair (of him) hell, yes! But then, if you've been bailing him out for a while, he'll have come to expect it.

On a joint account, you are both responsible for the whole of any debt, so if you split up, the lender would pursue both of you for the whole amount. If account holder A pays off half, and Account holder B paid nothing, the lender can still pursue A for the remaining debt.

My ExH never gave a thought to what he spent, if it wasn't in his bank account, he spent on credit cards. He couldn't/wouldn't contemplate saying I can't afford it. It was one of the reasons we split up.

Take care OP.

HappyMummyOfOne if OP wants to stay with her DP this is what she will have to do. It's ok in some fantasy world thinking he will take responsibility for his finances and spendings but he has proved that he won't/can't that is the reality -sadly.

My 19yr old son is shouldering the burden of his fathers over spending and debts and has given/ loaned (although he will never get it back!) £350 in about 6 weeks. On top of that he is buying him food just so he and his dogs don't starve. Has my EXH learnt his lesson? Does he have any shame asking his teenage sons for money? The answer is NO. If OP wants to stay with her DP someone will have to take responsibility and the logical solution is for her to take control despite it seeming controlling or whatever.

I am so very lucky I am working and could get a mortgage to buy him out otherwise we would have been homeless through no fault of our own.

Unhappymummyofone has a real hangup about SAHMs.

I suppose I haven't been through the situation of living with someone who is financially irresponsible, so I don't quite get all the LTB reactions. But it does sound, OP, like you should take charge of the finances and, nod to unhappymummyofone, it is great that you are going to start seeing about your future career.