hes hiding/ lying about money.. again

[beanynamechange]

obvious name change, im a regular, but never been to relationships..

this is bloody long..

my dp is amazing, kind, loving, an attentive father, and shit with money.

when i met him he was 2500£ in debt, and i bailed him out with my savings, and he paid me back gradually instead of the high interest rates he was battling..
we had our dd, and he was still spending money like it grew on trees, he gradually realised after i had bought everything for our dd with no contribution from him (i was earning £800 pcm, him closer to £1400..) that something had to change. he was amazing about it, decided he needed my help, fine, i said i would.

the best way i could think of to help him without actually feeling like his mother was to go through his bank statements and show him where he was going wrong e.g. coffee 2-3x a day from starbucks... fine as a once a week treat but several times a day? also set up paper statements to make him accountable at the end of the month.. it worked and everything was dandy

we agreed he could turn off his paper statements for the christmas period, i had been with him 3 years, been doing super well with money for 1.5-2 years at this point.. and they never got turned back on. i didnt doubt him, he had done so well and was providing for us as a family as we decided i wouldnt go back to work after having dd..

and now its all gone tits up :(
ive always had all of our passwords etc saved in random places incase we ever forgot, and i thought that i would turn his paper statements back on hes out tonight with the view of showing him how amazing hes done by himself at the end of the month, and that im glad hes providing hes always been a bit worried about not providing for me and dd, and now he is

i got a shock.

hes got a credit card still running with over £1000 on, that he told me he shut down and had cleared the balance on.
hes taken £200 cash out in the last month (we agreed no cash, for either of us, as its too easy to spend on crap and then not remember.. i have no idea what he could have bought with that..)
a direct debit out to hitachi capital for varing amounts, i thought it could be our car finance but thats a different dd name?
hes got £34 left in his account to last until his payday.. end of the month
he has no money in a savings account that we agreed we would keep £100 in (each, as a bumper incase we needed it, seperate from our isas..)
and i cant access his isa because hes changed the password, im worried. really bloody worried.

please tell me this is okay?
please tell me im worrying over nothing and theres a reasonable explanation?

im not LTB.. i love him, i hate how he is with money..

"I love him, he's an amazing person,"

And you are deep in denial. The respondent who cited co-dependency re yourself is correct.

What is there to love about this man?. And no he is not any kind of a decent role model of a father either. Your children and yourself will have no kind of a decent life at all because he will have spent the lot.
He is a financial spendthrift who will end up bankrupt - and take you down with him. Is that future really what you want?.

How do you see your own future with this man?.

"But what can I do if he doesn't? "

Nothing. Not a damn thing. This is as good as he gets. Once there's a ring on your finger he will take it even more for granted that he can behave deceitfully and irresponsible and take it for granted you'll still be around at the end of it. He has zero respect for you.

You need to get a job, even if the short-term net effect is that there is a little less money. Why are childcare costs something that you pay for? They are his children as well so it's a shared family cost. You need to build up your own capital in you own name, keep his name off any assets, let him take out debts in his name only and definitely NOT marry the idiot because then he'll have a claim on everything when you finally see the light and tell him to go.

My dad was financially abusive to my mum, gave her £10 and expected a feast every night of the week etc, I'm very conscious of not being that person. It feels like he does the bare minimum for 'us' and saves all of the treats for himself.. The plan was for us to go out for lunch today, but he can't afford it.. And neither can I which is why I never suggested going out for lunch

Does anyone have any stories of this actually working out? Is there a chance he will see the light?
This isn't as bad as when I met him, so he has changed drastically, but clearly not enough..

Let go of the fairytale, it's blinding you from your own responsibilities, delegating financial responsibility to the financially reckless is negligence.

The only way it ever 'works' on a practical level is for one partner to take complete control of the finances and dish out a few spends. The old Northern Matriarch model of the man tipping up his wage packet at the end of the week and her giving him half a crown back to spend at the pub. On an emotional/relationship level it rarely works because it's based around a fundamental inequality in power, borne of mistrust and irresponsible behaviour, that will eventually lead to resentment and contempt.

I wondered what you learnt about relationships when growing up and I was not surprised to read any of that re your parents. You have basically gone onto meet a man out of that not too dissimilar rotten mould. They taught you an awful lot of damaging lessons and these are being acted out in your own non relationship with him now.

Re this comment:-
"It feels like he does the bare minimum for 'us' and saves all of the treats for himself.."

Well it feels like that because he is doing this and has done so for many years, probably predating your own relationship with him also. I can see what he gets out of this but what is in this for you really?. What needs of yours are being met here by this man (apart from being able to enable him all the time?). This has never been any sort of an equal relationship and that will remain the case. Is this really what you want to show your own children, this could also become their "norm" and they will not thank you either.

"Is there a chance he will see the light?"

Look at this from his angle. He is All Right Jack down the pub or scoffing Subways etc. Why does he need to see the light? What motivation does he have to change? What will happen to him, aside from occasional complaints from you which can be easily pacified & then ignored, if he carries on in the same way?

Without any meaningful consequences to inaction you will not get action.

You use the word 'treats' a lot, OP. I noticed it because it's one of those words that I find unusual when used by an adult about adults. I think trying to control your DP enough to trust him must be exhausting, like managing the behaviour of a child.

I'm really sorry, but he has got a long way to go before he learns the habit of being careful with money.

Or do think he does it deliberately to thwart you?

I genuinely love him, that's what's so scary. Leaving him would be like leaving my best friend and partner and emotional support all in one go..

When we left my dad it was clear my mum hated him, and still does.. I honestly thought this was different :(

I've fucked it all up haven't i :(

Given your family background it is not that surprising that you are where you are but you're not your parents. You are not helpless and ultimately you will have to assume responsibility, not for his financial recklessness but for you and your children's futures. Can I ask, how old you are?

The life that is being led by you now re this spendthrift man is no life for you at all.

I would ask what it is that you love about this man. From what you write he has no redeeming features whatsoever.

I do have sympathy for you but I am shocked that you don't seem to have the ability to earn your own keep. Why make the decision to have kids and be a SAHM and make yourself financially dependent on an irresponsible partner? I think you need to get a job, attempt to build a career that can support you and your children and plan for possibly being a single parent. Your DP may or may not sort himself out and increase his earning potential to pay for himself and contribute towards his DCs expenses but don't expect him to do the same for you.

A best friend wouldn't be dishonest. Someone providing emotional support should not, at the same time, make you anxious and upset. A 'partner' is someone who makes an equal contribution to family life, not make a big shitty mess and leave someone else to clear it up

You haven't fucked it all up but you need to open your eyes and protect yourself.

Do not marry him!!!

I don't rate the success of your relationship very highly unless he is prepared to lay everything on the table.

X had a terrible attitude to money - borrowed 10k after we got married and didn't even mention it. I had already put down a sizeable deposit on our house.

I am not unsympathetic to people with problems managing money. I do not have a great track record but I don't pay the mortgage with credit card cheques (fuckwit X )

I am worried about your well being. I was at a similar stage of pg with my first when I found out what a dick X had been with family finances

I am a LP now and pretty skint but I at least have complete control of my finances. My home won't be repossessed.

This really needs sorting now before you get into the post natal "fog". LTB doesn't have to be permanent but enough to shock him. Then he MIGHT want to change.

I agree with you OP. It is unfair for him to spend money like water while you have next to nk disposable income.

The best plan is to for you to take over finances. Allocate money to rent, bills, savings etc and then with whats left split it two ways and that is your discretionary expenditure. He gets his subways and coffees etc out of this.

In my house I manage all the finances. DH and I have a credit card and debit card but we very rarely use them except for normal budgeted expenses like travel passes, petrol shopping etc. Every Friday we take a set amount of money out and divide it between us. Usually we spend most of it over the weekend doing family stuff then we split whatever is left on Monday and that pays for lunchs/ coffees etc.

If he set up a direct debit on the account without informing me I would be fuming. Set allowances is the way forward for you.

I do have to add that DH is not a spendthrift. I could not live with someone like this. i would find it too stressful to constantly monitor and manage someone elses spending. ANy lying over money would be a totla deal breaker for me

I'm 22.. I was in a very very early stage of building a career when I fell pregnant- it's a career that needs experience, not uni/ further education to get into..

Okay, if I allocate money for bills etc, and split what's left 50/50, look at getting a job- something part time to start with? Childcare costs will be crippling..
I've got nowhere I can go temporarily to give him a shock :/

It sounds like you escaped a very dysfunctional upbringing and sought solace in a relationship that can never deliver the thing that you crave the most, security. It took me ten years and a violent ending to realise that the person I loved could never contribute to the security that I craved. Five years on, DD and me are still dealing with Ex's crap but I am dependant on me, a much more reliable generator of security.

Childcare costs are always crippling early days but children eventually end up at school and your need/cost for childcare goes down. If you are established in your job you can take on more work and progress up the ladder. If you are just starting out trying to find employment you're a long way behind the ball.

You don't leave to give them a shock.... that's just game playing. What you have to work out is what you want your future to look like and - very important - be prepared to follow through if he doesn't share that view. I suggest that what you want is a life with a trustworthy, loving, respectful partner who makes an equal contribution, acts responsibly and honestly and doesn't have to be micro-managed. If he can't sign up for that, then your next decision is whether he stays or goes.

OP you are still very young. From what you've said your original career path may not be compatible with your current life, theres plenty of time to change direction. Even if your partner wasn't reckless with money, what were your career plans once becoming a mother?

I can only tell you what happened with my own parents. Their marriage started very similarly with my dad being seemingly generous and open with money but all the time secretly spending. Fast forward nearly 40 years and my mum has, stupidly, bailed him out numerous times to the tune of well over 100k. All his large redundancy pay off went, her hard earned retirement lump sum, they were mortgaged up to the hilt til very recently and she now has a reasonable inheritance coming which I fear will go the same way.

Obviously your situation may not work out like this. My mum always thought, and still does, that she could change him. She can't. I wish she'd divorced him many many years ago, I doubt she ever will now. It is so sad to see how hard she has worked all her life to end up with very little. I hate him, and am only civil for her sake.

It started small. Don't end up like this, please. A liar is a liar whether it's adultery or money or whatever. I cannot see any long term solution other than to ltb that won't destroy you.

My dh did this. When we met he had £4000 in debt which I didn't find out about until we had married and bought a house when I found out it was because his creditor was withdrawing the source if credit and demanding the payment in full. We had to take out a loan to pay it. Based on our income, and the house we'd bought, I thought we'd take an extra grand to do up the bathroom. Which we did, and cost less than the extra.
He spent it, and went back into two grand debt on his overdraft. Without telling me. God knows on what. I found out again, when demand letters arrived.
We paid it off. We have enough income to easily manage paying these things off if we manage finances tightly fir a few months- we lost a lot of weight going vegetarian for eight months because we couldn't afford meat.
We are still together, I love him, and respect him. But i have full access to all accounts, and whilst I rarely check his, I often ask his balance which he now tells me. He was ashamed and in denial. Genuine denial. He had never been taught about money- his parents are rich and spend whatever whenever. (His mother recently asked why we haven't redecorated the living room yet- when told we don't have the money , she replied ' we'll you can't use that as an excuse - it needs doing so you'll just have to spend the money!' She doesn't comprehend that we don't have it- not that we don't want to spend it, but that we don't have it) he committed to learning how to manage money, he went through income and out goings, regularly, worked out what we could spend, started taking responsibility, making packed lunches instead of eating out, working out what weekly shops would cost and meal plans to help. He is still too easy to spend money at the start if the month, but he manages reign himself in. And tells me if he's short. I don't think I'm controlling. If I am I don't care. It works for us, but was hard for a long time.

You'll only have fucked it all up if you look at all this evidence of WHAT HE IS ACTUALLY, REALLY LIKE and then stay so that he can gradually turn into your dad.

Yes he does save all the treats for himself. Yes he does lie to you so that he can get away with that. Yes he is a user who cares more for his comfort and enjoyment than the actual necessities of family life.

You need to change the way you think so that you can genuinely protect your children. Stop seeing him through rose-tinted glasses. You love him? He doesn't love you in the same way. Taking his money? Um, how is it his money? You have children - you are a financial team. What he brings in to the communal 'pot' is simply that - the stuff he tips in to the pot. Be it paper cash, childminding time, shopping and cooking and cleaning, looking up bargains on food or insurance or cars - it doesn't matter.

His cash is no more 'his because he earns it' than the children are 'yours because you do the childcare.'

You really need to think like that, and stop putting yourself last, because as the other adult in the relationship, if you are happy to cower and put yourself last, all you do is make sure EVERYONE except him are low in the pecking order.

Exactly the setup your dad revelled in.

Personally, I would leave, as this has been covered before in your relationship and what he's doing now isn't an accident, it's concerted deliberate effort put in to make sure you and the children are defrauded.

What did he say when you confronted him...I'm guessing you haven't...

From Tittybojangles above, OP:

My mum always thought, and still does, that she could change him. She can't. I wish she'd divorced him many many years ago, I doubt she ever will now. It is so sad to see how hard she has worked all her life to end up with very little. I hate him, and am only civil for her sake.

Please read that again the next time you think 'I can't possibly leave him, he a fantastic dad and the children adore him.'