hes hiding/ lying about money.. again

[beanynamechange]

obvious name change, im a regular, but never been to relationships..

this is bloody long..

my dp is amazing, kind, loving, an attentive father, and shit with money.

when i met him he was 2500£ in debt, and i bailed him out with my savings, and he paid me back gradually instead of the high interest rates he was battling..
we had our dd, and he was still spending money like it grew on trees, he gradually realised after i had bought everything for our dd with no contribution from him (i was earning £800 pcm, him closer to £1400..) that something had to change. he was amazing about it, decided he needed my help, fine, i said i would.

the best way i could think of to help him without actually feeling like his mother was to go through his bank statements and show him where he was going wrong e.g. coffee 2-3x a day from starbucks... fine as a once a week treat but several times a day? also set up paper statements to make him accountable at the end of the month.. it worked and everything was dandy

we agreed he could turn off his paper statements for the christmas period, i had been with him 3 years, been doing super well with money for 1.5-2 years at this point.. and they never got turned back on. i didnt doubt him, he had done so well and was providing for us as a family as we decided i wouldnt go back to work after having dd..

and now its all gone tits up :(
ive always had all of our passwords etc saved in random places incase we ever forgot, and i thought that i would turn his paper statements back on hes out tonight with the view of showing him how amazing hes done by himself at the end of the month, and that im glad hes providing hes always been a bit worried about not providing for me and dd, and now he is

i got a shock.

hes got a credit card still running with over £1000 on, that he told me he shut down and had cleared the balance on.
hes taken £200 cash out in the last month (we agreed no cash, for either of us, as its too easy to spend on crap and then not remember.. i have no idea what he could have bought with that..)
a direct debit out to hitachi capital for varing amounts, i thought it could be our car finance but thats a different dd name?
hes got £34 left in his account to last until his payday.. end of the month
he has no money in a savings account that we agreed we would keep £100 in (each, as a bumper incase we needed it, seperate from our isas..)
and i cant access his isa because hes changed the password, im worried. really bloody worried.

please tell me this is okay?
please tell me im worrying over nothing and theres a reasonable explanation?

im not LTB.. i love him, i hate how he is with money..

It's not a 'hangup about SAHMs' to advise women that, if they're going to 'SAH' and rely solely on their partner to provide their income, it's going to be a total disaster if that partner is financially irresponsible. The reason so many are jumping to LTB is not the spending but the lying. Overspending is a failing anyone can have but it's a living nightmare being in a relationship with a liar. Those of us who have endured living with a financially irresponsible liar know that taking charge of the finances sounds easy enough but is itself a solution that can lead to enormous resentment and a lot of stress. 'How dare you tell me what to spend/expect to see my bank statements/dish me out some pocket money like child ... etc'. Disagreement about money causes a lot of break-ups and the SAHM status then becomes another vulnerability factor.

Therefore, it is sensible to suggest that the OP should get back into the workplace and earn some cash of her own so that a) she is not so reliant on an irresponsible partner and b) if it all goes tits up she is less vulnerable.

Just read the thread. There is no way he is just "baffled" by going into debt again. Baffled is what you are when you find out you have 20 pounds less than you thought in your account and have to think about what you spent in the last week to remember where it has gone.

Someone who has transfered money, arranged a direct debit, kept a credit card running when he told you it was closed, is not baffled. Those are all deliberate actions, they can't be done by chance. He is just trying to get out of being blamed for what he has done.

I stand corrected, Cogito.

its hardly lying is it... he said he didn't have anything to eat but he had something out of subway... really is that it? I wonder how many people tell lies about food they eat? what about all these overweight people that don't eat anything - do they get told to leave their OH because they ate the packet of Jaffa cakes instead of having one? no... its absolute nonsense to suggest someone should leave their partner over something as petty as that.

How can he be baffled about a credit card he told you he cleared and closed?

That is not baffled it is plan out and out deception.

You have gone without basics while he has spent £1000 on treats for himself.

Now you will both (you again) go with out to clear up after his sorry arse.

If you stay and work this out make it damn clear this is the last time and be prepared to walk if he does it again.

@peggundercrackers... if you think this is all hinging on whether a man owned up to buying a sandwich or not I'd respectfully suggest that you haven't read the thread properly.

OP, your last post doesn't explain your opening post at all.

And I think that's because you have accepted a whole load of bs.

Sorry but this relationship is doomed because he is financially irresponsible, totally selfish, and has no regard for your and your DC's welfare.

DO NOT MARRY HIM.

If not for your sake, then for your children. They are entitled to so much better than this.

He's said that he wanted to deal with the money stuff himself, because he felt like a twunt that a grown man couldn't juggle his own finances, then it started to go tits up again and he was embarrassed to tell me because he knew he should have just discussed it with me in the first place :/

I think it's genuinly more of a problem with communication, if he had told me everytime he bought lunch- I'd probably have ' again? Maybe take a packed lunch?!'
If he's told me his plans with the isa I would have explained and we could have kept his amazing compared to mine interest rate
He's got bad credit history and he said that he thought paying off the credit card gradually would help rebuild it better than just paying it all off in one go, which I think is true, so not necessarily a problem.. But I needed to know that was then plan, and that doesn't then give him free reign to spend on it..
Eurgh. I hear you all saying I need to leave, or at least be financially independant, and that is my plan- but I need to look at a career..... And I have no idea, I had my children so young that I never really got the chance..

I told him, one more chance. That is it
I'm looking at getting a part time job, my brothers said he may be able to offer some childcare for me, although dp was against the idea of me working, mainly because I don't want to, I want to be with my dc and he knows that, but I said until he can actually provide I'm not sure if he's leaving me with any other choice.

For now, the weddings off. He has his ring back, I've told him I don't want to see it again until he's ready to be a man, step up and actually take some responsibility for his family.

I'm going to start trying to save a rainy day fund, that's mine.. If I need to leave with dc that should make it easier.

We have agreed to sitting down on his payday and together, moving money to the joint account (literally only house dds and rent) to me for the month, allocate him an 'allowance' and stick the rest into my savings..

Thank you to those who have said that this can work, I understand what your saying that if this was the other way round blah blah.. But I'm doing this with his 100% consent- I think this means he actually wants this to work? I hope so :(

When you apply for mortgages it's the total amount you owe that counts, not that you are servicing the debt.

Debt is debt.

Choose a career and work hard for it, it never hurts for women to have their own income.

How do you choose a career? that makes me sound 12 ideally, I'd want something that I can either work towards part time for now/ until the kids are at school, and something that's then flexible around school times, so don't mind bringing work home to do in the evenings.. I am also in the position to be able to do some FE in a field ATM to make it easier in the long run, I need to do this for my family, but I have no idea :(

Think about what you want to do that would fit in with family.

It won't come to you in 5 minutes though.

"I think this means he actually wants this to work? I hope so"

I hope so too. However, you've asked him to 'be a man, step up, take responsibility' and his response has been to bullshit you about the ISA/credit card deception, shift all the responsibility back onto you and accept pocket money. Not particularly 'manly' and still leaves him scope to bump up his pocket money with borrowing you don't know about.

On careers it depends on aptitude and interests. Suggest you look at a big organisation where you can start small/flexibly but where there is plenty of opportunity for promotion or a change of role as time goes on.

With starting a career, I think while it's great to have a definite path or plan if one is clear to, if you really don't know, waiting to find "the one" career path may actually set you back. If you're doing something which opens doors for you, then that's great, even if it's not something that has a set destination if that makes sense?

So, instead of looking for the big career right not, if you're up for studying, why not simply look at what courses are available at your local college and see which you fancy? As long as you do something which makes you more employable, that'll be a step in the right direction even if you're not sure where you're going exactly.

Which subjects did you enjoy in school? What kind of things are you good at now?

Or alternatively, you could find out which areas are expanding and go for those. Just one example - Digital Media type jobs (websites etc) are expanding as the web does, that could be a good way to go if you like that kind of thing. Are you any good at creative writing? I read the other day that because of the expansion of the web, there's a need for good copy to be written and people are earning good salaries there. (Might need to check that one out, it was only one article I read!)

Or, what's kind of jobs exist close to you?

What this reminds me of most is someone going to weightwatchers and they lose the weight, reach their goal, are confident they have their diet sorted out and stop going to weightwatchers. And then without the regular public weigh ins and support all the bad habits slip back and then you begin to notice it but can't seem to do anything about until things get out of control again and you're back to weightwatchers having gained all the weight back again.

As with our relationship with food our relationship with money is complex and there can be some deepseated issues that are harmful. He might benefit from some counselling if you can spare the money. If not and in the meantime if you want to stay together you need to get back on the weightwatchers programme. Maybe you'll have to stay on it forever. It's up to you whether you want to be his weightwatchers coach.

Have you thought about accounting work? I don't know much about the specifics but I wonder if it might suit?

OP can i just make one suggestion. If he handing everything to you please set up experian credit expert. This will give you a monthly email telling you nothing has changed with your accounts and flag up anything usual or new. This will show you if he is taking out new credit etc. it means he wont be able to hide anything and if he does 'slip' up you will see it before he does too my damage,
For what its worth i had one like this, combined with several other shortcomings (alcoholism, ea, affairs) I had to leave him. He left me with £18000 worth of debt. We had to sell our house, 6 years later i STILL live in rental and I have only just started being able to save a deposit again.

OP, FWIW I think you're doing the right thing.

I know some people have said "if you were a man..." but there's a difference between financial abuse and doing it with full consent and input. This type of situation works for many people for many reasons.

He's not a twunt for letting it get away from him. Sometimes it just happens that you get distracted or it's overwhelming. There's nothing wrong with admitting he needs help and allowing you to give him that help (as long as you still respect him).

He didn't admit he needed help. He casually ran up bills and set up direct debits which the OP only discovered by accident ... 'a shock' they called it. He then claims to be 'baffled' when what he's actually done is 'lie'. He's accepted help since the confrontation but, as this has all happened before, you've got to question whether he plans on taking it seriously and how long before he reverts to his old ways.

It may not be financial abuse or done maliciously but it's a miserable existence when you can't trust your partner with money.

'When money goes out of the door, love flies out of the window'

I think you need to do do some online psychometric tests - morrisby? To help work out what careers would be good for yourself?

What about training for book keeping? Or TA work?

Sorry if this has been covered but have you seen actual evidence of the money being in a save to buy account or whatever it is?
Have you seen a statement from them? Is the money actually there.

For me it's not even really about the money thing, it's the lies. It's the fact that the lies just came second nature and that he didn't mention it when he had opportunity.

I think you need to have a good think about a career for you. The Open Uni have a lot of courses for those starting out and you can do them part time.

I hope he sticks to your agreements this time OP. I expect you'll have to monitor the situation quite closely.

Career wise, I think it's hard to know what you'd find satisfying without actually trying anything. My suggestion is to find a job - whichever one you find most appealing. Once in post, see what you like and what you don't like about it. See if there are other jobs you'd prefer within your organisation, or elsewhere. This way you have money in the bank while you're obtaining practical experience.

You can study part time while you work, or study later.
Or, you can study a short course now, and apply the same 'see how you feel' principle.

Aptitude tests are always worth a try. But I think you can become immobilised by choices when you're just starting out.

(PS I'm not trying to be funny, but financial advisor or financial work comes to mind for a career, or at least a job for now. You seem very comfortable with figures, budgets and money, which suggests some interest, albeit that you haven't had much choice so far.)

These are your options:

Stay and demand that he gets councelling to work through his financial irresponsibility. In the meantime take full control of the finances with the understanding that he learns to budget. Loosen the financial supervision but keep the regular credit reports coming in to alert you to future fuck-ups.

Stay with him and half heartedly supervise the finances and get married. Again find out that he has obtained credit and/or raided savings to bankroll his reckless spending. Become increasingly frustrated and resentful at his continued 'bafflement' of the financial mess he's made. He gets into serious debt that you can no longer manage/ service and watch your credit score plummet. Kiss goodbye to any dreams of owning your own home and saving for your children's futures.

Stay and take full control of the finances (checking credit reports regularly etc) and get married. Become increasingly frustrated at having to parent an adult and resentful of the inevitable whinging about you being controlling and him not being able to spend 'his' money. The resentment, frustrations and the stress that comes with being the 'responsible' one slowly poison your love for him.

LTB and seek counseling to unravel the terrible example set by your parents. Gain some qualifications to improve your future earning potential.

You did not cause him to be financially reckless but you have the benefit of hindsight and therefore are responsible for protecting you and your children.