New BF who is also "the boss" and an accidental FB slur

[HellyBelly38]

This question is for a friend of mine, she asked me to post a question for her as she knows I use MN to answer my own dilemmas.

She is 37, works for a company with offices all over the place and she was employed by a very old friend of hers who owns the whole company.

Hence she was friends with the big boss (let's call him Mr D) , as well as many of the smaller bosses long before she was an employee of the company and is also friends with them on FB.

She started work there about a year ago, and then a few months ago starting also (quite casually but also quite promisingly) dating Mr D, who she had always been great friends with.

She is quite a lippy girl who often makes sarcastic jokes and she made a quip on the FB page of one of her bosses, let's call him Mr Tubby (tee hee). She has been friends with Mr Tubby for a long time and the joke (admittedly a bit off regarding his weight) wasn't intended to offend as pretty much everyone on the thread was commenting on his weight in a similar way and it's a bit of a running joke.

For whatever reason, Mr Tubby, who is both a very old friend of hers, as well as a boss of the company she works at (several rungs above her though) got offended and un-friended her on Facebook and sent her a pretty horrible email (I saw it).

She responded very nicely with an email to apologise, to say she had not meant to offend and to say she hoped they could resume their friendship.

Mr Tubby responded with an absolutely vile email which said something on the lines of "I am no friend of yours, I am a friend of Mr D" etc.

My friend is due to go and stay with Mr Tubby on a vacation trip with Mr D as his girlfriend and she now (obviously) does not want to go.

She let Mr D know what had happened and he advised her to ring Mr Tubby and apologise again to smooth it over.

I personally thought Mr Tubby's emails to her were absolutely scathing and completely out of proportion with her jokey FB comment. I am also supervised Mr D is not defending her and seems to blame her entirely.

Can I get the advice from the MNers for her?

Is it best to wallow her pride and suck it up?
Should she still go on the trip to stay in the house of this man who has been so rude to her?
Should Mr D be standing up for her a bit more?

Thanks

It looks like the "friendship" was not what the thought it was, and now he is her boss, line manager, or higher up in the work ladder, she crossed a line too many.
Some people are more forgiving that others

And I found it interesting that you said "When she is an arse, I tell her she is an arse." Even though she's not scary, she can be an arse, so she's not that wonderful and this man is not bothered about maintaining a friendship with her.
It seems that the boyfriend just wants to hang up with his friend and is pushing her to go, regardless of how she feels about it.
I agree with others that she should work towards moving out of that company. She's not an equal partner to her bf and I can't see it ending that well for her.

Did you tell her she's been an arse over this whole weight issue?
And that she is continuing to be an arse even thinking about going on holiday to Mr Ts house when he's told her she is not welcome?

Btw, what is the relationship with Mr D? You said they live in different countries and it doesn't sound like they share a home. What degree of commitment is there on his part

OP I think people have been pretty harsh to you and your friend, to be honest. I think a lot of women make the mistake in thinking, when they have a group of male friends, that these men view them in the same way they view each other. But I never believed this to be the case with men and like you say, your gut feeling that he reacted to her in such an OTT way (despite what others are saying here, I think he should get over it) because a WOMAN insulted him. I have no time for egotistical men. She apologised and that is all she can do...and the classy thing for him would be to forgive and move on. He didn't and so she should just leave him alone. His 'friendship' is one she could do without.

it's not a good plan to date the boss.

mr. t probably has a thing for her and is hurt. he's using this as an excuse.

mr. d isn't standing up for her.

i don't like the sound of either of them tbh.

I agree with NeilD, above.

She made the mistake of assuming she was an equal. She wasn't. She apologised, he didn't accept it and as a bonus has been told the friendship is non existent now. If it ever was. He is being a dick. I wouldn't apologise again and I certainly wouldn't be spending any leisure time with him.

I think Panda/Neil are right in the social dynamics at play and I think Basil is right about his response. He was looking for an excuse to let rip at her and she gave him the opportunity. I don't think there is anything she can do about it now and I suspect that this would have happened sooner or later anyway. That amount of resentment is going to bubble to the surface at some point.

My view on it is that although it is nasty to make personal comments about someone on FB it is quite different doing it to a friend than a senior colleague - especially when you are the girlfriend of someone high up in the company.
It might look as if she is taking advantage of the fact that she is dating the boss and thinking that it protects her from what could potentially be a disciplinary issue.
She should keep her mouth shut, appologise profusely and if Mr T really doesn't like her then she shouldn't go and stay with him, again he might feel he's been put in a difficult position by the bosses girlfriend.

Lots of excellent points made about the dynamics, and analysing what her interference in the FB thread really meant.

Another thing to consider is that it seems like a virtusl company, with no day-to-day visibility, so not only is Facebook taking the place of office interaction (with friends mixed in -not ideal!), her relationship with the boss (who OWNS the company, so there's very unlikely to be an HR department, board of givernors or shareholders to complain to) is essentially being conducted out of sight of everyone. None of them, therefore, have the chance to see the relationship, and therefore are likely to speculate and feel insecure about your friend's position (low in the company, possibly too high in the boss's estimation for their comfort). They aren't visible to the boss in the same way, either, so indications of relative status (e.g. throwi g weight around byassuming it's all right to "banter" with equals) are very important. Hasn't she heard of Caesar's wife?

That emsil sounded perfectly fine. Not abusive, not offensive, more like offended , and rightly so.

Unfortunately when you're banging the boss, you need to be beyond reproach. You need to work harder and faster than anyone else. At interview for promotion you need to be at least 40 percent better than the next best candidate. Your interactions with colleagues both in and out of work can't have any hint of bullying, intimidation or throwing your weight around. There should be no signs of favouritism. You certainly can't overstep the mark with a senior colleague, publicly.

The email from Mr T, to me reads like he's not talking about a single occasion and its not vile at all.

I'm sure the emails and reading this thread haven't been pleasant for your friend. But after she's licked her wounds a bit there's a lot she could learn from this. Seems she's been walking around in a bit of a bubble, dishing out 'witty sarcastic quips' being 'lippy' and thinking everyone loves and admires her for it. They don't. Time to start toning it down... a lot.

One mans "Lippy and Sarcastic" is another mans bully. Ifyou're on the receiving end of one particular characteristic trait then it's hardly not surprising that the visible trait overshadows the not so visible. Your opinion of your friend behaviour doesn't matter here, as her remarks weren't aimed at you and to be perfectly honest your "Mr T (tee hee)" comment suggest you aren't the most objective of commentators. Its interesting that you label Mr T's private email responses as vile, nasty and disproportion and your friends public comments as "Off the cuff" banter and your willingness to demonise Mr T so that your friend can keep her halo is creepy.

Unfriending people who make offensive personal remarks about you on fb is sensible and being grown up , bleating to your boyfriend and friends about how someone is being vile and nasty in a non-public response to said offensive personal comments, not so.

Your friend has something of the 'Teenage Mean Girl' about her and that persona can't be successfully transplanted into all formal and informal group settings. Every group has their own dynamic and these don't remain static. Your friend has been naive in thinking that becoming the girlfriend of and a junior employee wouldn't change the dynamic and her position within it.

Your friend sounds unpleasant, naive and childish and your OP sycophantic and dismissive. Mr T is under no obligation to accept your friends apology and any apology offered with that expectation is lacking in sincerity.

She sounds immature, insecure and vile. Far too old for 'lippy'.

Exactly, the older you get the less "Lippy and Sarcastic" are forgiven.

Maybe your friend thinks she is more friendly with Mr T than he does. She may have thought they were having 'witty banter' for years and he may have felt offended by her comments but had been laughing them off to be polite/keep the peace. If his friends email him when she posts, asking who she is, it sounds like she may have stepped over the line on a few occasions and the people who are close to him have picked up on it and told him that he shouldn't take it anymore. He may have decided to take their advice. fwiw I don't think friendships are based on 'witty banter' that insults people.

You built up those emails as vile, scathing, nasty, rude, extreme, etc...

They aren't at all! Just the harsh truth. Your friend needs a thicker skin because it seems like she can dole it out but not take it back.

Add message | Report | Message poster Isetan Sat 10-May-14 09:26:47
Exactly, the older you get the less "Lippy and Sarcastic" are forgiven.

Yy. I wonder if the 'cute as a button' lippy and sarcastic young women are the ones who become the 'interfering old bags' that mn is so fond of complaining about

It's less adorable when you are not in the flush of youth.

The more evangelical the defence of the "friend", the less inclined I am to believe there is a friend...

*Pagwatch", the "Lippy and Sarcasm" coupled with the 'I wasn't that bad and the he was way meaner to me' whine is unattached at any age and yeah, more so the older you get.

Agree. None of my friends could be mistaken for mother Teresa.

"When you write on my page people send me messages saying who the fuck is _ and this is what people think of you "

That actually is odd. I can't imagine that happening - I have at least 5 - 6 distinctive friendship groups on FB plus some family and general waifs and strays. They don't all know each other and would not expect to. I have never had a "who the fuck is X?" email.

Also in the context of ongoing banter it seems an odd thing for other people to send messages about. So either he is talking crap and was looking for an excuse to let rip at her OR what she said was, if you take a step back, out of line compared to others "banter".

"The more evangelical the defence of the "friend", the less inclined I am to believe there is a friend..."

Good point. There is no friend is there. It is you?

Your friend is an idiot. Let me count the ways:

She's having a relationship with the head of the company. This should have either not started, she should have left when it did or be kept totally under wraps and separate from their working lives.

Faceache is for family and friends, and not work colleagues and most certainly not one's superiors.

She was tactless and cruel about someone who is more senior than her and with other people who were probably less senior than their victim, too.

She seems to expect the boyfriend/company head to protect her from her own very regrettable behaviour. Which she appears to be unrepentant about.

She is in danger of jeopardising both the relationship and the job and it wouldn't be anyone else's fault but her own.

I made the same point yesterday. OP assures she is genuine but that friend is reading the thread. In other words she can't say what she really thinks, hence all the schoolgirl worship.

"I would want Mr D to be more supportive and tell Mr Tubby that it isn't the way to speak to his girlfriend/partner. "

She can't have it both ways. Either she and Mr T are friends, in which case it's none of her boyfriend's business to speak to someone she's fallen out with, or she and Mr T are colleagues, with him being senior, in which case she needs to stick to factual - or preferably no - interactions on FB so that they are "policed" by work rules and the boss can intervene if appropriate.

Also agree that the FB emails sounded fine - far from a torrent of abuse.

Were the others inc

Were the others involved in the banter also junior colleagues, or Mr T's friends from outside work or those on his level or above at work?

Has Mr T made any public jokes about her flat chest since they became colleague?