New BF who is also "the boss" and an accidental FB slur

[HellyBelly38]

This question is for a friend of mine, she asked me to post a question for her as she knows I use MN to answer my own dilemmas.

She is 37, works for a company with offices all over the place and she was employed by a very old friend of hers who owns the whole company.

Hence she was friends with the big boss (let's call him Mr D) , as well as many of the smaller bosses long before she was an employee of the company and is also friends with them on FB.

She started work there about a year ago, and then a few months ago starting also (quite casually but also quite promisingly) dating Mr D, who she had always been great friends with.

She is quite a lippy girl who often makes sarcastic jokes and she made a quip on the FB page of one of her bosses, let's call him Mr Tubby (tee hee). She has been friends with Mr Tubby for a long time and the joke (admittedly a bit off regarding his weight) wasn't intended to offend as pretty much everyone on the thread was commenting on his weight in a similar way and it's a bit of a running joke.

For whatever reason, Mr Tubby, who is both a very old friend of hers, as well as a boss of the company she works at (several rungs above her though) got offended and un-friended her on Facebook and sent her a pretty horrible email (I saw it).

She responded very nicely with an email to apologise, to say she had not meant to offend and to say she hoped they could resume their friendship.

Mr Tubby responded with an absolutely vile email which said something on the lines of "I am no friend of yours, I am a friend of Mr D" etc.

My friend is due to go and stay with Mr Tubby on a vacation trip with Mr D as his girlfriend and she now (obviously) does not want to go.

She let Mr D know what had happened and he advised her to ring Mr Tubby and apologise again to smooth it over.

I personally thought Mr Tubby's emails to her were absolutely scathing and completely out of proportion with her jokey FB comment. I am also supervised Mr D is not defending her and seems to blame her entirely.

Can I get the advice from the MNers for her?

Is it best to wallow her pride and suck it up?
Should she still go on the trip to stay in the house of this man who has been so rude to her?
Should Mr D be standing up for her a bit more?

Thanks

*"I ringing to apologise for any hurt I inadvertently caused. I really didn't think my words would be offensive (they were meant as a joke) but I now understand that I have hurt you deeply.

I hope that you will accept my apology"*

That is a bullshit apology, taking no responsibility at all. The "apologiser" is basically whining that it was meant as a joke, she didn't mean it, is surprised to find he's hurt.

"I do understand what you are saying. As I said initially, I apologise for any part I played in that conversation when it got out of hand."

And this is worse. "I understand what you are saying BUT..." and the snotty, "As I said initially," and finally "playing a part in a conversation..." sounds like she's putting the blame on others too.

Try: "In a clumsy attempt at humour I made a stupid, unforgivable comment about you. I regretted it the moment I wrote it. I'm horrified that I've hurt the feelings of someone I've considered to be a friend and you've every right to tell me off. I'll bow out of our upcoming holiday. I wish you the best."

Maybe the two of you should stop commenting other people's appearances?

If I were her, I would just leave it for a while and let the guy whose feelings she has hurt get over it. He will probably be fine about it in a while. I don't think she need apologize over and over. Once is enough. Hopefully she will learn to think a bit more before making comments like that next time.

She must have hurt him a lot if he reacted so extremely. That is a shame for her, but she caused the reaction and I don't think she gets to decide how he should react and how angry he is allowed to be. It makes her sound a bit like those people who make horrible jokes at other people's expense and then say they have a poor sense of humour when they don't find them funny.

matilda - you are welcome to your opinion.

However, getting the friend to start a telephone conversation is important.

How far the apology goes after that is whether the phone call works. Perhaps it will be a combination of both our suggestions.

Ok I was wondering could Mr T be upset about something else and this might have upset him even more? As in could he have been upset about your friend dating the boss?? Could he have had feelings for her and is jealous????

I think that opening remark was unfair. If I changed my status to "was mistaken for Claudia Schiffer in Tescos this morning" and I looked nothing like her then I would expect people to give me some banter. Some statuses invite banter and if you don't want it / can't take it you should not post.

I agree thought that time would be helpful before she apologises again. He's obviously very upset as he blasted her first apology.

Please bear in mind that this post is about one thing she has said on one occasion. She is "one of the lads" she does join in the banter with them but I can safely say the majority of jokes are directed at her - often including quips about her flat chest - often from the very same people on the thread in question. Just because she said one remark that she regretted (haven't we ALL done that!) it doesn't make her "the type of person to make horrible jokes at people's expense". That's just not true.

I was overweight for a long time.

I sometimes commented on it myself to "get in there before other people did".

A comment about me on such a public site as FB would have made me die of shame and embarrassment. I can see why this man lashed out.

It is definitely not a "jokey FB comment", no matter how much you and your friend try to convince yourselves it is.

You both sound quite immature to be honest. I too would leave it for it all to blow over. There is no point in raking over it, what's done is done. Let's hope she gets to keep her job and her man.

My personal view - having seen the comments and knowing the relationship it that I think Mr T is upset she is dating Mr R. In which case he should take that up with Mr R rather than bullying my friend. I saw his emails as bullying. Her comment was not bullying. It was a joke gone wrong.

Yes, that makes much more sense than his being offended at being publicly fat-shamed. Glad you two have figured it out.

As I said summerbreezer, I am overweight too. But If I was making jokes about my weight and other joined in I'd not single out one person as the villain. I'd definitely never send an email like the one he sent. It was worse than the one I sent to my XH when he cheated on me.

It sounds like it is time this friendship group reassessed how they speak to each other. Jokes shouldn't be made about her flat chest either. I think jokes like that are the kind of thing that is funny when you are young and immature but which get less funny when you mature. Unfortunately for her, she has been the one in the group to experience this first.

Assuming this is really a one off, I think she should make one more, heartfelt apology and leave it with him. I would write off the holiday if I were her. He will come round and if she shows what a great person she is, he will most likely forgive her.

I suggest she makes a stand in the friendship group that it is no longer okay to make jokes about each other's appearance. People will pick up that it isn't funny any more and then the group can move on and start making jokes about things that really are funny.

Play with fire - get burned. It's the risk you take when you make personal comments about other people.

Nothing he did subsequently makes her comment acceptable.

If he has a problem with her dating the boss - well again, when we mix business with pleasure there is often scope for it to create problems elsewhere. That's not to say it is wrong - but she would be naïve if she thought it wouldn't create resentment elsewhere.

Okay, thanks all. I know she had read the thread now and is going to have a think. thanks for the unbiased perspective. Maybe I am biased from knowing what a good person she is and how upset she was that she'd offended him but you've helped and what she wants to do is resolve it. I do appreciate all your comments, but I think she's had enough of a battering now from every angle.

The trouble is that the jokes being made about weight were by two men of a similar size joking together.
There is an equality in that.they are on an equal footing, it's safe.

Someone younger and slim and a different sex rocking up to take a pop is not really joining in is it?

If she had been joking with her boyfriend about getting a pay rise and he had joined in with a joke about a blow job bonus would she have felt he was just joining in the banter?

She may have felt it was ok but I think she humiliated him.

The apology suggestion is a non apology.

She must decide if she is sorry or if she just wants a holiday with her boyfriend.
That should determine how she proceeds.

I am sorry, but there is no way you can join in a gang of hyenas on social media and publicly humiliate a person, and expect to still be their friend. Especially not if the person in question is a superior in her work place, and she humiliates him in front of other staff. She has been extremely stupid.

His emails to her were in private. She joked about his body in public.

I also joke about my weight. I would be so mortified and humiliated if somebody else did it to me.

The apology suggestion is a non apology.

of course it is an apology! What do you want her to do - wear sack cloth and ashes?

The friend has already apologised once by email - and that has been rejected.

Give this woman some space to apologise without throwing herself under a bus!

To be honest - and I didn't want to say this - I am not even sure that this friendship/colleague working relationship can be saved.

I think the emails from Mr T would give us all a great insight into how much hurt and damage has been done by the friend.

The friend has already apologised once by email - and that has been rejected.

That's when you leave it. He's under no obligation to accept an apology. I wouldn't, in his place.

What do you want her to do--wear sackcloth and ashes?

An apology is a humble admission of fault. If she doesn't feel at fault she shouldn't apologise.

Erm - no
Just either apologise because you think you hurt someone or don't.

She doesn't have to wear sack cloth and ashes. Where did I suggest that?
If she doesn't wnt to apologise she doesn't have to. If she is not in the wrong then she shouldn't.

But the apology suggested is 'I'm sorry you have no sense of humour and are a bit stupid and objected to me doing nothing much because it was everyone else'

If she's not in the wrong she can leave it. Unless she wants him to put her up on holiday.

Pagwatch - that is the interpretation YOU have put on it.

Doesn't an apology depend on tone of voice and the sincerity communicated? It isn't possible to communicate that in my written words.

The sincerity issue is down to the friend. I offered a way of starting an apologetic conversation.

Op - you sound like a very loyal friend.

But you've told us that your friend is "lippy" and makes sarcastic remarks, which doesn't fit in with your post of "it doesn't make her "the type of person to make horrible jokes at people's expense"."
Because that's exactly what she sounds like, both by your description of her and by her actions. I wonder if subconsciously you realise that she can be quite hurtful - whether this is on purpose or because she doesn't think about other people's feelings?

If she contacts Mr T again, she needs to apologise for saying what she did because she realises how much she has hurt him and that was never her intention. And to reiterate how very sorry she is that she has caused him distress and how much she regrets her actions. An open, full and frank admission of how he is feeling.

the holiday is a no-go. She needs to stay out of things for a while. And to realise that the friendship may be broken beyond repair.

Doesn't an apology depend on tone of voice and the sincerity communicated?

No, it depends on the apologiser taking responsibility for her actions. Starting with a whine along the lines of "It was a joke, I didn't mean it..." isn't a genuine apology, no matter how much sincerity the apologiser tries to put into her voice. Saying, "I joined in a conversation that got out of hand," also is just the apologiser trying to exculpate herself.

Contacting someone over and over saying, "I said I was sorry and do I still get my holiday?" Again, not sincere.

And what is an "apologetic conversation"? An apology is an offering. He doesn't owe her a response.

Two thoughts for your friend :

• you can have your career or you can shag the boss. You can't have both.

If she is serious about him then she needs to go get a career away from him and the tight social network at his company.

• people have friendships which may not be visible to you.

Just because other people are saying something doesn't mean that it's acceptable for you to do so. Don't butt in and try to be one of the boys, it is cringeworthy and clearly asking for trouble.

She needs to apologise profusely, withdraw from the holiday, and choose either the man or the job. Then start looking for a new job where she can behave professionally and maintain some boundaries.

"She is quite a lippy girl who often makes sarcastic jokes and she made a quip on the FB page of one of her bosses, let's call him Mr Tubby (tee hee)."

"She's very gentle and the kindest person I know"

Which one is it? Lippy and sarcastic or kind and gentle?

Mr Tubby (tee hee). Jaysus, even you are making fun of the mans weigh issues.

"she was also friends with Mr T for a long time before she worked with him, and had this same banter before they were colleagues."

Which is why it is never a good idea to mix work and longstanding friendships. She may have some boundary issues. You dont banter like that with work superiors.... Not in public, and most certainly not on social media.

Since when were lippy and kind and gentle mutually exclusive? She's both.

OP you've referred to "let's call him Mr D" in your 1st post & now are referring to Mr R- is this the same person & you put their real initial (R) in the later posts? Apologies if this is a trite question, I'm trying to work out who Mr R is.